It really is time to move on.

[RobertR]

"No Manning" might be true but Denver's D won that Super Bowl.

The rest is conjecture.

It's not conjecture that Tebow never started again and wound up out of the league, while Manning wears a ring and is headed to the Hall of Fame.

[mozzerpete]

I don’t mean 70% of Elway’s time necessarily, but 70% of importance. Contracts and capology are minimal labor for a front office. Trades happen randomly. Coaching only comes up every three years or so. During training camp, most of his day is looking at who makes the 53 man roster.

That leaves college scouting and pro scouting. All personnel staff considered, college scouting might be 80% or more of man-hours across the personnel department. The Broncos have 20 scouts or personnel staff, and just two are solely focused on pro personnel.

I think that underscores how important those seven rounds are. Far more than college free agents or pro free agents, is what is the core of your team for years to come. It is nearly impossible to succeed without drafting well.

You went from "70% of a GM's responsibility is drafting"
to "70% of importance."

Did you read that number somewhere or make it up?
You stated it as a fact so just curious.

[mozzerpete]

Ummm, you might not want to get too carried away on Elway. Seems somewhat like a pot/kettle/black situation the past 3 1/4 years to me...

2016: 9-7
2017: 5-11
2018: 6-10
2019: 0-3

Carried away...How?
By comparing Shanahan's GM win/loss record and subsequent firing to Elway's current GM career?
You seem triggered.

Lol you forget that Shanahan had to deal with RGIII and both of his daddies. Dan Snyder being one of them.

Didnt RGIIIs Dad actually go to Shanahans house in order to tell him which plays he could call for his son? Lol

I think that would throw off even Belichick

So...Shanahan by default is a better GM due to RG3's dad and Snyder
who gave Shanahan final say in everything.

Can you see how you just weakened your original point
by making excuses?
Someone could easily make excuses for Elway.

You take Shanahan and I will take Elway without excuses.

[Ondavi]

Capt.Jack, I've been thinking about your statement that "Elway is basically the bedrock of the team," and what keeps coming to mind is Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble. . .

[mozzerpete]

It's not conjecture that Tebow never started again and wound up out of the league, while Manning wears a ring and is headed to the Hall of Fame.

If Tebow remained in Denver and Elway was all in on him,
then odds are the Broncos would not have "drafted a QB the following year."

There's a part of me that feels Tebow and Miller could have beat the Panthers too.

(That's the conjecture part because we will never know.)

[RobertR]

If Tebow remained in Denver and Elway was all in on him,
then odds are the Broncos would not have "drafted a QB the following year."

There's a part of me that feels Tebow and Miller could have beat the Panthers too.

(That's the conjecture part because we will never know.)

What other team in the NFL thought Tebow was good enough to win a Super Bowl with a great defense? What other team thought Tebow was good enough to even start? Answer: NONE. That is NOT conjecture. Neither is it conjecture that Tebow was never able to prove that the evaluation of him was wrong.

[Sam_Z]

Carried away...How?
By comparing Shanahan's GM win/loss record and subsequent firing to Elway's current GM career?
You seem triggered.



So...Shanahan by default is a better GM due to RG3's dad and Snyder
who gave Shanahan final say in everything.

Can you see how you just weakened your original point
by making excuses?
Someone could easily make excuses for Elway.

You take Shanahan and I will take Elway without excuses.

Oh wow what a way to whine! Lol

I’m stating facts dude, Shanahan was greatly distracted and it could’ve happened to anyone of us anywhere.

That’s fine you take Elway, I have no beef nor care but DONT get your feelings hurt because I don’t like Elway as a GM as much as I like Shanahan.

[GiddyupGetEm]

You went from "70% of a GM's responsibility is drafting"
to "70% of importance."

Did you read that number somewhere or make it up?
You stated it as a fact so just curious.

I have never seen a GM’s duties broken out into percentage. But career NFL personnel professionals nearly unanimously say drafting the most important duty of a GM. Does that mean 70%? I don’t know. But undoubtedly, without good drafting, everything else about a roster inevitably will collapse.

Free agency is the most expensive way to improve. Undrafted free agents are too rare to rely on as a long-term plan. Depth, talent, and cap control are maintained through consistent drafting. No GM hits on 100%. But Elway is hitting less than 25% on draft picks meeting League-wide expected performance.

[CanDB]

No it’s not. Denver doesn’t assemble the defense without Manning. He was the catalyst to go for the gold. And Elway was itching to replace Tebow, if Manning hadn’t chosen Denver, they were definitely going in another direction.

I agree. Manning was the so called game changer. Tebow was a headache for Elway. He knew that Tebow's days were numbered, even though he managed some wild and crazy victories. But Tebow was not a passer, and that must have bothered Elway big time, like it bothered many of us.

So signing Manning was bold, risky and incredibly important, as we went on to play some great football, including 2 SB appearances, and with a bit of luck, possibly a third (lets just say Baltimore and Facco of all dudes, ruined that possibility). But the fact that Manning seemed to open the door to other quality signings, making Denver a hot spot once again. And though the D did win the SB, the team was extremely talented on O and D during most of Manning's time here. Sure, he was basically done when we won the ring, but by then we had built a strong team around him.

And lets not forget all those offensive exploits in his first 2 seasons with us. Lots of one sided victories, and loads of excitement!

That signing was one big reason I have endorsed Elway, til of late. I still like him, but he needs to fix what needs fixing.

[mozzerpete]

What other team in the NFL thought Tebow was good enough to win a Super Bowl with a great defense? What other team thought Tebow was good enough to even start? Answer: NONE. That is NOT conjecture. Neither is it conjecture that Tebow was never able to prove that the evaluation of him was wrong.

RobertR context is everything.
You seem to be arguing a point I never made.
Good day to you Sir.

Oh wow what a way to whine! Lol

I’m stating facts dude, Shanahan was greatly distracted and it could’ve happened to anyone of us anywhere.

That’s fine you take Elway, I have no beef nor care but DONT get your feelings hurt because I don’t like Elway as a GM as much as I like Shanahan.

If Shanahan was distracted by egos or whatever then
perhaps Snyder was right to fire him. (Excuses)

Whining?
I don't even know you personally to get upset.
smh

My replies to the "prove me wrong" post
remain for everyone to draw their own opinion.

Go Broncos!

I have never seen a GM’s duties broken out into percentage. But career NFL personnel professionals nearly unanimously say drafting the most important duty of a GM. Does that mean 70%? I don’t know. But undoubtedly, without good drafting, everything else about a roster inevitably will collapse.

Free agency is the most expensive way to improve. Undrafted free agents are too rare to rely on as a long-term plan. Depth, talent, and cap control are maintained through consistent drafting. No GM hits on 100%. But Elway is hitting less than 25% on draft picks meeting League-wide expected performance.

You're arguing points I never made.

I questioned the "70%" you stated with certainty
and you even used the word "scientifically" to prove another
poster wrong.

Do you always make up numbers when commenting or just 70% of the time?
Scientifically speaking of course. lol

Go Broncos!

[mozzerpete]

2 Super Bowl wins is better than 1, so I will back that.
Pat Bowlen
Shannahan
Elway
3 men who have done a lot for this franchise.

Agreed.
Destruction is easier than creation.

(Need to spread CPs but sometimes it's difficult. lol )

[GiddyupGetEm]

I worry fans will blame the refs. They will not see that we can’t tackle. We passed up Devin Bush, a versatile tackling machine at a position of need for NOah Fant.

[BeelzeBob]

It really is time to move on. How could anyone argue otherwise at this point?

[Hadez]

It really is time to move on. How could anyone argue otherwise at this point?

Vance had two years of drafting top 5 and top 10

Only the super hopeful thought we were going to come out this year and be a winning team

The rebuild has already started just some are just now realizing where we are.

[BroncosDivision]

Don't worry guys, believe in the process. We're so close to winning these games. Heck, we're practically 4-0 right now if not for a few mistakes and what not. All Fangio needs to do is call Vance Joseph and ask for tips on how to get a better practice in.. that's gonna put us over the edge, I'm sure of it!

0-4 but who cares. Bring on Chargers!