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  • . . . that's this SUNDAY, sorry. . .

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    • If we go to total rebuild mode, people on the forums are still going to freak out at every loss (and there will be many) and claim the sky is falling and the new players and coaches and gm are even worse than before. There is no patience here.

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      • Originally posted by chessic View Post
        If we go to total rebuild mode, people on the forums are still going to freak out at every loss (and there will be many) and claim the sky is falling and the new players and coaches and gm are even worse than before. There is no patience here.
        Sure, but isn't that irrelevant? It's for the good of the team, who cares if there are some dissenters. Treading water between 4 and 9 wins from 2016-2019 is enough for me.
        Last edited by Papa-pwn; 10-05-2019, 05:42 AM.

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        • John is signed through 2020 I believe. Let him see it through if you ask me. No matter our feelings of him we need to see what Drew Lock has. We have had back to back promising draft classes and will have some cap space to work with. Trade Harris and Sanders for 2020 picks. See if John can throw together another good draft. Try and get an extra 1st in 2021 so if Lock doesn’t work out we can go hard after Fields or Lawrence as the face of our franchise.
          I say Elway and Fangio get the rest of this year and all of next year. If this team isn’t trending hard in the right direction towards the end of 2020 cut ties and go HARD after Ryan Day and Justin Fields from Ohio St. and get a real GM.

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          • Originally posted by chessic View Post
            If we go to total rebuild mode, people on the forums are still going to freak out at every loss (and there will be many) and claim the sky is falling and the new players and coaches and gm are even worse than before. There is no patience here.
            If you’re in full rebuild mode with a young QB, I think it calms the fan base more because they EXPECT a rebuild with a young QB. I don’t think most rational fans would expect an instant turn around because the team is in rebuild mode. Of course there’s always people who won’t be satisfied with anything short of a SB. Who cares.

            The problem that exists right now is the fan base has been sold on the idea that this team is playoff caliber and we’re just a couple FAs away from contention.

            IMO, this team is already in a state of rebuild, it’s just that the FO has not admitted or committed to an actual rebuild. Time to admit to the fan base that this is a rebuild team and we need to commit and rebuild around around a young franchise QB. We need to stop this bridge QB philosophy. Time to commit.
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            • Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
              If you’re in full rebuild mode with a young QB, I think it calms the fan base more because they EXPECT a rebuild with a young QB. I don’t think most rational fans would expect an instant turn around because the team is in rebuild mode. Of course there’s always people who won’t be satisfied with anything short of a SB. Who cares.

              The problem that exists right now is the fan base has been sold on the idea that this team is playoff caliber and we’re just a couple FAs away from contention.

              IMO, this team is already in a state of rebuild, it’s just that the FO has not admitted or committed to an actual rebuild. Time to admit to the fan base that this is a rebuild team and we need to commit and rebuild around around a young franchise QB. We need to stop this bridge QB philosophy. Time to commit.
              I see your side on this. And yes, the first step to a nice recovery is acceptance.

              I've seen rebuilds that win over fanbases, tired of their losing ways. But what you need to do is give fans a glimpse of what can be, including some dynamic young players. In many sports, in many cities, I've witnessed fans go from one stage to another, when they come off a nice high with a winning roster. First it hurts, because you immediately miss the thrill of being a contender. And you crave that.

              So if an organization wants to ease the blow of some sort of rebuild, you promote some instant fan favs, young players who look the part of winners, and will not be satisfied with less. Once fans recognize that though the end has come with one team era, a really nice one might be starting up again. They are drawn to youthful energy and positivity.

              Now, given it does not all happen overnight, as long as a team has these young guns in the group, and if the team talks about finding more young stars, complemented by vets who bring stability, mentorship and loads of energy as well, fans typically buy in.

              It's not so much as they accept that the end has come, but they respect the new direction taken. And they know there will be some bumps, but plenty of new reasons to get excited, and new players they embrace.

              There is no easy way to say goodbye to a winning team....but you can soften the blow by rebuilding with quality, likable, positive players.....players who expect to win championships.
              Last edited by CanDB; 10-05-2019, 09:46 AM.

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              • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                I see your side on this.

                I've seen rebuilds that win over fanbases, tired of their losing ways. But what you need to do is give fans a glimpse of what can be, including some dynamic young players. In many sports, in many cities, I've witnessed fans go from one stage to another, when they come off a nice high with a winning roster. First it hurts, because you immediately miss the thrill of being a contender. And you crave that.

                So if an organization wants to ease the blow of some sort of rebuild, you promote some instant fan favs, young players who look the part of winners, and will not be satisfied with less. Once fans recognize that though the end has come with one team era, a really nice one might be starting up again. They are drawn to youthful energy and positivity.

                Now, given it does not all happen overnight, as long as a team has these young guns in the group, and if the team talks about finding more young stars, complemented by vets who bring stability, mentorship and loads of energy as well, fans typically buy in.

                It's not so much as they accept that the end has come, but they respect the new direction taken. And they know there will be some bumps, but plenty of new reasons to get excited, and new players they embrace.

                There is no easy way to say goodbye to a winning team....but you can soften the blow by rebuilding with quality, likable, positive players.....players who expect to win championships.
                Totally agree. Good news is we do have some exciting young players, especially on offense. Lindsay, Sutton, Freeman and Risner specifically. Speaking only for myself, I would be willing to endure a losing season with these guys and a young QB because it will be more enjoyable to watch a young, exciting team grow. I admit I’m very tired of the bridge QB approach.
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                • Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
                  Totally agree. Good news is we do have some exciting young players, especially on offense. Lindsay, Sutton, Freeman and Risner specifically. Speaking only for myself, I would be willing to endure a losing season with these guys and a young QB because it will be more enjoyable to watch a young, exciting team grow. I admit I’m very tired of the bridge QB approach.
                  I think what you're trying to say and I agree with you is...most I think would be willing to endure that. If but for nothing else than it shows we are executing a plan. Right now we have tried the same approach for 4 years and it has failed....doing it a 5th and 10th time in the NFL will not correct a teams issues. A clear direction and vision can and will change a teams fate.

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                  • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                    I think what you're trying to say and I agree with you is...most I think would be willing to endure that. If but for nothing else than it shows we are executing a plan. Right now we have tried the same approach for 4 years and it has failed....doing it a 5th and 10th time in the NFL will not correct a teams issues. A clear direction and vision can and will change a teams fate.
                    Pretty much sums up my long winded explanation precisely. Thanks.
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                    • Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
                      Totally agree. Good news is we do have some exciting young players, especially on offense. Lindsay, Sutton, Freeman and Risner specifically. Speaking only for myself, I would be willing to endure a losing season with these guys and a young QB because it will be more enjoyable to watch a young, exciting team grow. I admit I’m very tired of the bridge QB approach.
                      To be sure, I was going to mention the guys who fit the description I was referring to. I am quite sure you meant Chubb as well (but now that he's injured, we might not refer to him as often). I hope that Lock will join that club. Because if we have a quality young QB, RBs, WR, Oliner, OLB...that's a strong base of young players already. And some of our other young guys might also add to the optimism once we get to see them play a little more. Just keep adding to the fold, following the roster strategy that makes most sense. And complement with good, team oriented vets, and I think we will be a in a really good place, if not next year....the year after.

                      And it's ok to fill roster spots with vets, via FA. The right guys, with the right attitude, will make this team better, quicker. We are not talking huge dollars necessarily, but I am ok with slightly more expensive players if they fill a huge need.

                      Then the question....what to do with the proven ones that may get us some excellent return - Miller, Harris. maybe one or two others.

                      I am not saying Elway and company can not do it, but I am convinced that some other management types could make something really good happen with what we have.
                      Last edited by CanDB; 10-05-2019, 11:08 AM.

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                      • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                        I think what you're trying to say and I agree with you is...most I think would be willing to endure that. If but for nothing else than it shows we are executing a plan. Right now we have tried the same approach for 4 years and it has failed....doing it a 5th and 10th time in the NFL will not correct a teams issues. A clear direction and vision can and will change a teams fate.
                        This is exactly where some of us agree, with a high degree of approval.

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                        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                          To be sure, I was going to mention the guys who fit the description I was referring to. I am quite sure you meant Chubb as well (but now that he's injured, we might not refer to him as often). I hope that Lock will join that club. Because if we have a quality young QB, RBs, WR, Oliner, OLB...that's a strong base of young players already. And some of our other young guys might also add to the optimism once we get to see them play a little more. Just keep adding to the fold, following the roster strategy that makes most sense. And complement with good, team oriented vets, and I think we will be a in a really good place, if not next year....the year after.

                          And it's ok to fill roster spots with vets, via FA. The right guys, with the right attitude, will make this team better, quicker. We are not talking huge dollars necessarily, but I am ok with slightly more expensive players if they fill a huge need.

                          Then the question....what to do with the proven ones that may get us some excellent return - Miller, Harris. maybe one or two others.

                          I am not saying Elway and company can not do it, but I am convinced that some other management types could make something really good happen with what we have.
                          Well said. Pretty much on the same page with you. I only mentioned the offensive players because I think we have a better young foundation on offense right now. Chubb is definitely an exciting young pass rusher.

                          As far as expensive proven vets go, there needs to be a move or two, but I don’t think we need to get rid of all of them. A couple key trades and/or renegotiations would go a long way to rebuilding for the near future.

                          I’m advocating more for a change of philosophy and strategy. I hope Lock is the guy, but we have to see him play. I think a youth movement, particularly at QB, with some key vets sprinkled in would be a good way to start the rebuild process. Mostly, IMO, it comes down to admitting this team is in a rebuild phase and we need to identify and commit to a young franchise QB.
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                          • Originally posted by chessic View Post
                            If we go to total rebuild mode, people on the forums are still going to freak out at every loss (and there will be many) and claim the sky is falling and the new players and coaches and gm are even worse than before. There is no patience here.
                            The problem is that right now we are losing even without a rebuild in place. A rebuild at least will justify the losses and be building towards a better future. Right now there is no direction and vision with the team. We brought in Flacco to be a franchise QB, Fangio to maintain an elite defense, and Munchak to improve the passing and rushing attack. None of those have happened, and show no signs of improvement. This isn't the first time Elway has tried this approach - this is the 4th year attempting a bridge QB/strong defensive plan, except now we don't have a strong defense, and a bridge QB isn't going to overcome the problems we have on this team. People are going to freak out anyways, so that's not the concern. The concern is, does the team have a plan for the future? The one we have right now isn't working.
                            Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                            • RE: the post stating . . . "sky is falling. . . There is no patience here", etc. Response: There has already been TOO MUCH patience, and Bronchos' personnel (players and management) are being paid waaaaaaay too much monies to deserve ANY more patience, and respect.

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                              • "Rebuilding" is an overused, ridiculous term and concept used by losers and excuses-makers. The correct term should be "building," and it is an ongoing process for organizations that are continually successful, be it a football team or otherwise. Embrace.

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