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  • orange crush75
    replied
    Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
    Imo you dont have to have the best line in the nfl to be successful. Decent like with a good qb and talent can go a long way.
    Agreed . Take a crappy line and put them around a really good Qb and they ain't winning any SB because they probably aren't going to make it to one.

    Leave a comment:


  • JvDub95
    replied
    Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
    Imo you dont have to have the best line in the nfl to be successful. Decent like with a good qb and talent can go a long way.
    You like Dak and he has the best Oline and arguably the best RB and a very good WR in Copper yet they are year in year out avg team. What's your excuse for Dak?

    Leave a comment:


  • Ear2dastreets
    replied
    Imo you dont have to have the best line in the nfl to be successful. Decent like with a good qb and talent can go a long way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ear2dastreets
    replied
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
    I just want their offensive line, nothing else......
    With that line they still 6-6 and may not make the playoffs.

    Leave a comment:


  • JvDub95
    replied
    Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
    To be clear, the Cowboys are struggling because of coaching. They have talent everywhere. Their first and second round picks have been strong.

    If Broncos fans could swap rosters with the Cowboys, they would in an instant.
    I just want their offensive line, nothing else......

    Leave a comment:


  • GiddyupGetEm
    replied
    Originally posted by Ondavi View Post
    Dallas Cowboys starting to show "shades of " the John Elway's Denver Broncos, and at "home," again.
    To be clear, the Cowboys are struggling because of coaching. They have talent everywhere. Their first and second round picks have been strong.

    If Broncos fans could swap rosters with the Cowboys, they would in an instant.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ondavi
    replied
    Dallas Cowboys starting to show "shades of " the John Elway's Denver Broncos, and at "home," again.

    Leave a comment:


  • RocketArm006
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
    2013-17 were not good drafting years. And we're paying the price for that right now. People are ignoring how good Elway's FO is at finding UDFA treasure, though.

    18-19 have been phenomenal classes. And they continue to find UDFA treasure.

    I don't think it's luck, either. There's been a philosophy shift of going for proven leadership and production in college years which is translating to the field.

    And people seem to think finding a franchise QB in short order is a basic GM skill. Simply not true. Some things to consider:

    1. Goff is looking like a bust. Took 4-5 years to figure that out.
    2. Winston and Mariota turned out to be busts
    3. Mayfield could very well turn out to be a bust
    4. Jury is still out on Wentz
    5. Josh Allen will likely be a bust when he doesn't have an epic defense to carry him

    The only sure thing that turned out to be a sure thing was Luck, and he had to retire at age 29.

    Finding a good QB is hard. Unless you're Dallas Indianapolis where you blindly stumble onto them in succession.
    You’re right. Finding a QB is hard. It’s way harder to find him when you bring in a bridge QB every year. IMO it’s simply time to commit to a young franchise QB. Maybe it’s Lock, maybe it’s a #1 pick in the draft. I know for darn sure it isn’t another FA band aid.

    The best shot at finding him is drafting him and playing him right away. Most of the guys you mentioned are still very young. I would venture a guess a couple of them will be mainstay starters for many years.

    Sure, there’s risk involved, but I personally think the odds are much better when you draft and commit.

    My fingers are crossed for Lock.

    As far as recent drafts and undrafted FAs, I agree. We actually have a decent core of young and exciting players. If the FO can stop the turnstile at QB and HC, the future could be bright.

    Again, fingers crossed.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
    2013-17 were not good drafting years. And we're paying the price for that right now. People are ignoring how good Elway's FO is at finding UDFA treasure, though.

    18-19 have been phenomenal classes. And they continue to find UDFA treasure.

    I don't think it's luck, either. There's been a philosophy shift of going for proven leadership and production in college years which is translating to the field.

    And people seem to think finding a franchise QB in short order is a basic GM skill. Simply not true. Some things to consider:

    1. Goff is looking like a bust. Took 4-5 years to figure that out.
    2. Winston and Mariota turned out to be busts
    3. Mayfield could very well turn out to be a bust
    4. Jury is still out on Wentz
    5. Josh Allen will likely be a bust when he doesn't have an epic defense to carry him

    The only sure thing that turned out to be a sure thing was Luck, and he had to retire at age 29.

    Finding a good QB is hard. Unless you're Dallas Indianapolis where you blindly stumble onto them in succession.
    I will agree on this.....QBs are not easy to find. I would be a fool to state otherwise. And yes, a number of the QBs I thought were going to be good were either not good, or are tailing off. Injuries can change players, so a guy like Wentz seems to have lost a chunk of his game. As did RGIII, Bridgewater and others. Not sure if Allen is going the way you say, and Goff is "off", but may not be done.

    Having said that, I don't particularly care for who we drafted to replace Manning, nor do I like either of the last 2 vets we signed. I was not keen on either, the day we signed them.

    It's true, it's not easy. But you can not keep missing like they have, and say it's ok. KC knew something about Mahomes. Houston saw something in Watson. Baltimore hooked onto a young mobile dude, who just happens to be The MVP as we speak. There are some great QBs in this league, and a couple of decent tiers below them. There are also a couple of tiers of not so good QBs. We seem to be sticking nearer the bottom two tiers..

    Further....our Oline has been a messy situation for far too long! And Oliners that are selected earlier in drafts are often good players. What's our problem, other than Risner?

    So yes I agree with you that it is not an easy science, this QB thing. But we have been awful since Manning declined, and our Oline should be much better by now!

    Leave a comment:


  • GiddyupGetEm
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
    2013-17 were not good drafting years. And we're paying the price for that right now. People are ignoring how good Elway's FO is at finding UDFA treasure, though.

    18-19 have been phenomenal classes. And they continue to find UDFA treasure.

    I don't think it's luck, either. There's been a philosophy shift of going for proven leadership and production in college years which is translating to the field.

    And people seem to think finding a franchise QB in short order is a basic GM skill. Simply not true. Some things to consider:

    1. Goff is looking like a bust. Took 4-5 years to figure that out.
    2. Winston and Mariota turned out to be busts
    3. Mayfield could very well turn out to be a bust
    4. Jury is still out on Wentz
    5. Josh Allen will likely be a bust when he doesn't have an epic defense to carry him

    The only sure thing that turned out to be a sure thing was Luck, and he had to retire at age 29.

    Finding a good QB is hard. Unless you're Dallas Indianapolis where you blindly stumble onto them in succession.
    I think 2018 draft was strong. But why are fans so bullish on the 2019 draft? Risner is a solid starter in year one, which is above expectation for a second rounder. But other than that, 2019 has been average at best. I still think trading down for Fant was an awful move.

    In truth, Elway’s drafted so badly that 2019’s C- draft looks like a B+ to Bronco fans.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonny_Quest
    replied
    So you are giving him a pass on the QB/Oline situation.....after a number of draft years? I am not saying his overall drafting has been terrible, but IMO he has failed to rebuild his O, other than finding Lindsay, and landing Risner and Sutton. Chubb (on D) was an easy pick to make. But we are talking years here.
    2013-17 were not good drafting years. And we're paying the price for that right now. People are ignoring how good Elway's FO is at finding UDFA treasure, though.

    18-19 have been phenomenal classes. And they continue to find UDFA treasure.

    I don't think it's luck, either. There's been a philosophy shift of going for proven leadership and production in college years which is translating to the field.

    And people seem to think finding a franchise QB in short order is a basic GM skill. Simply not true. Some things to consider:

    1. Goff is looking like a bust. Took 4-5 years to figure that out.
    2. Winston and Mariota turned out to be busts
    3. Mayfield could very well turn out to be a bust
    4. Jury is still out on Wentz
    5. Josh Allen will likely be a bust when he doesn't have an epic defense to carry him

    The only sure thing that turned out to be a sure thing was Luck, and he had to retire at age 29.

    Finding a good QB is hard. Unless you're Dallas Indianapolis where you blindly stumble onto them in succession.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
    Thanks, much appreciated.

    I really think it’s time to lose the old school dogma that’s been holding this team back. Back in the day, you never started rookies and you adhered to a certain system, making your players learn the system before giving them a shot.

    It’s different now. College players aren’t playing pro style anymore and the overall philosophy of the league has changed. You must adapt - just like any profession. We live in an age where you must play your young players and commit to a franchise QB. Put him in situations to succeed. Play to his strengths and slowly install more pro style plays as he matures. It’s working across the league. Time to adapt.
    Exactly!! I mean, if Andy Reid let Mahomes do his thing, and Harbaugh lets an even more "unique" QB do his thing, and both at such a young age.....why not join the new generation? Build your teams around studs, not making them conform, or be restricted to a high degree.

    Like I say to the refs of the world, this too applies....LET 'EM PLAY!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • RocketArm006
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    I like your stuff dude.....keep it coming!

    If I can add, we need need NEED to find a GM, or whatever name they want to call it, to take total charge of the roster, including Identity, Strategy, Signings,Trades, whatever. It is crystal clear that we do not know how to build an O anymore, with, as you say, repetitive nonsense. Definitely not insanity, as some like to describe that process (it's an over-rated, over-used definition!), but the process of repeating the same mistakes and seemingly not learning from it, is definitely bordering on incompetence at some level.

    And as each week passes by without Lock taking over, I give this group less points....and believe me, the jar is getting low.

    And because this one is getting to my core, if they do not have their franchise QB figured out (that includes going HIGH in the draft) by end of season, then in my opinion, someone/some group should be let go. Seriously, Just for the record, lots of us folks are not Lock lovers so much as QB lovers. We know the importance of having a quality QB, and we still have no idea who it might be. We just want to know if it is Lock or not, and we don't care about the blemishes that will come when we start him. Every QB goes through an adjustment as some sort. The good ones grow, and definitely benefit from actual playing experience, almost all the time.

    And this decision is critical in terms of the offseason roster moves, be it FA or The Draft. because we need to know if we have to go after a QB again, because it alters our approach to signing other positions of need. So if it's me at the helm, and I decide Lock isn't starter material, and I go big on one of the QB draftees, I would be looking Oline in FA and likely in round 2 of the draft. I would hate to have to go that route.....BUT if I did not have a quality QB on the roster I would work my way around landing one, while making sure I have the other key players in place.

    Yes, week by week....my clock ticks away. Like I say, if Lock isn't the guy, at least we all know that, and understand what we have to do this offseason. But we have to get it right, because we are draining draft capital as well as FA expenditures.
    Thanks, much appreciated.

    I really think it’s time to lose the old school dogma that’s been holding this team back. Back in the day, you never started rookies and you adhered to a certain system, making your players learn the system before giving them a shot.

    It’s different now. College players aren’t playing pro style anymore and the overall philosophy of the league has changed. You must adapt - just like any profession. We live in an age where you must play your young players and commit to a franchise QB. Put him in situations to succeed. Play to his strengths and slowly install more pro style plays as he matures. It’s working across the league. Time to adapt.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ondavi
    replied
    Elway is tremendously overcompensated for the pathetic job that he is not doing. And, he has tremendously overpaid waaay too many awful players with waaay too much monies. That is reality. Embrace.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post
    Jerry Jones has actually gotten pretty good at building rosters.

    He used to be really bad at it.

    The problem is that he sticks with a bad coach, and instills s culture where talent trumps behavior.

    That’s why my eyelid twitches when talking about firing Elway. Now that he’s getting good at drafting people want to run him out of town.

    If we keep drafting like we’ve been drafting the past two years, and we keep focusing on technique and fundamentals like we have this year, we will be contenders year on year.

    Patience, grasshoppers. Patience.
    So you are giving him a pass on the QB/Oline situation.....after a number of draft years? I am not saying his overall drafting has been terrible, but IMO he has failed to rebuild his O, other than finding Lindsay, and landing Risner and Sutton. Chubb (on D) was an easy pick to make. But we are talking years here.
    Last edited by CanDB; 11-27-2019, 02:05 PM.

    Leave a comment:

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