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  • Jonny_Quest
    replied
    Jerry Jones has actually gotten pretty good at building rosters.

    He used to be really bad at it.

    The problem is that he sticks with a bad coach, and instills s culture where talent trumps behavior.

    That’s why my eyelid twitches when talking about firing Elway. Now that he’s getting good at drafting people want to run him out of town.

    If we keep drafting like we’ve been drafting the past two years, and we keep focusing on technique and fundamentals like we have this year, we will be contenders year on year.

    Patience, grasshoppers. Patience.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by Rastic View Post
    It grew out of magic Papa John's pizza that Manning planted on the 50-yard line. :thumb:
    I was thinking chicken parm...but same general concept.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam_Z
    replied
    Originally posted by Lumiere View Post
    So, the 2015 world championship roster just magically formed itself?
    The 2015 roster was loaded with talent but so was the 2012-13 rosters but the guys that pulled together in 2015 are more responsible than the guy that put it together.

    There were plenty of talented rosters formed throughout the league and I’m sure those general managers would not get the same credit when compared to the coaching staff and the players of their respective teams.

    I’ve asked this before and I’ll ask again, would you guys give Jerry Jones or Carmen policy the same credit that you continuously give John Elway?

    I’ve given John plenty of credit for that but was not all him nor should he continue to get a free pass while referencing what happened prior to 2016. Again this has been the worst stretch in Broncos history and it’s under johns watch. He is the common denominator hence he should be held accountable.
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 11-27-2019, 12:00 PM.

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  • jflee66
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    The truth is that it wasn’t John nor Joe it was all Peyton Manning, Gary Kubiak, Wade Philips and John Fox. Without those guys there are no division titles and there is no Super Bowl victory.

    This is the worst stretch ever in Broncos history. If John doesn’t go anywhere neither will the Broncos.

    It’s not for the courage of the fearless crew, the minnow would be lost and so would you
    Is that the truth, nothing to do with JE. I say not. Even though PM played a big part in the championships. But where would NE be without Brady. They probably wouldn't even have half of the SB championships without him. But the game is a team sport, from top to bottom. If one person or position is to blame then go out and sale the farm for the best at that position and then we would never lose another game. Right? Oh, and I would have loved to have been lost on a deserted island with Ginger.

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  • Rastic
    replied
    Originally posted by Lumiere View Post
    So, the 2015 world championship roster just magically formed itself?
    It grew out of magic Papa John's pizza that Manning planted on the 50-yard line. :thumb:

    Leave a comment:


  • Rastic
    replied
    Originally posted by CodyRoarkNFL View Post
    John Elway certainly deserves a portion of the blame as to what has happened the last three years, but I hardly ever see anybody mentioning Joe Ellis. Not sure many people realize this but Kyle Shanahan not getting a chance in DEN has a lot to do with Ellis and the history there with Mike Shanahan. John Elway wanted to bring in Mike Shanahan this off-season but was veto'd by Ellis, a story that has been long lost in the 3-8 struggles. It's the easy solution to say "Fire John Elway" but it's much harder for people to dive in to the reality of what's going on with the team without an acting owner. There is blame and accountability that can go around. Has John Elway missed on QB? So far yes, and it's a damn hard job to find one. Has he had an impressive draft in back to back seasons? Absolutely he has.

    Fans need to embrace that this team is rebuilding and that it will be ugly for 1-2 years (at the most hopefully). Kyle Shanahan took the 49ers through a rebuild where his first two seasons were awful. He's been able to build through the draft and free agency the last two seasons and so far it's paid off in year 3.

    The players I've spoken to love what Vic Fangio and this staff have done so far within the culture and are wanting to build on that heading into next year.
    To me this is quite a surprising point you've brought up that I have already read from a handful of other sports writers. Despite an awful season with setbacks, last minute losses, blowouts, etc., by and large, players have bought in to the system. Such a different outlook than under VJ and one that portends well for the team should they continue to develop and grow.

    Leave a comment:


  • CanDB
    replied
    Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
    As has been thoroughly discussed, this FO will remain as long as the Trust is in control. My only hope is that the FO can actually stop and properly assess their overall approach to this roster and franchise. I think a lot of the issues have been due to a certain amount of closed minded hubris.

    I really don't feel obligated to re-hash all of the head scratching things that have happened over the last few years. Bottom line is this franchise has been on a steady and sharp decline for many years. They keep doing the same things over and over and it's netting poor results.

    Please try and take a different approach and start admitting you (the FO) are 100% responsible for the sad state of this franchise.

    I find it a little ironic that I see so many posts like "We don't want to become the Browns". Guess what.... We've become a turnstile at QB and HC. We are well below .500 every year. We've become a punchline on a national level. I think we're already becoming a bottom feeder.

    Please, for the love of this franchise, turn it around. Admit that a carousel of FAs and HCs is not the answer. Stabilize this organization and start making pragmatic decisions.
    I like your stuff dude.....keep it coming!

    If I can add, we need need NEED to find a GM, or whatever name they want to call it, to take total charge of the roster, including Identity, Strategy, Signings,Trades, whatever. It is crystal clear that we do not know how to build an O anymore, with, as you say, repetitive nonsense. Definitely not insanity, as some like to describe that process (it's an over-rated, over-used definition!), but the process of repeating the same mistakes and seemingly not learning from it, is definitely bordering on incompetence at some level.

    And as each week passes by without Lock taking over, I give this group less points....and believe me, the jar is getting low.

    And because this one is getting to my core, if they do not have their franchise QB figured out (that includes going HIGH in the draft) by end of season, then in my opinion, someone/some group should be let go. Seriously, Just for the record, lots of us folks are not Lock lovers so much as QB lovers. We know the importance of having a quality QB, and we still have no idea who it might be. We just want to know if it is Lock or not, and we don't care about the blemishes that will come when we start him. Every QB goes through an adjustment as some sort. The good ones grow, and definitely benefit from actual playing experience, almost all the time.

    And this decision is critical in terms of the offseason roster moves, be it FA or The Draft. because we need to know if we have to go after a QB again, because it alters our approach to signing other positions of need. So if it's me at the helm, and I decide Lock isn't starter material, and I go big on one of the QB draftees, I would be looking Oline in FA and likely in round 2 of the draft. I would hate to have to go that route.....BUT if I did not have a quality QB on the roster I would work my way around landing one, while making sure I have the other key players in place.

    Yes, week by week....my clock ticks away. Like I say, if Lock isn't the guy, at least we all know that, and understand what we have to do this offseason. But we have to get it right, because we are draining draft capital as well as FA expenditures.
    Last edited by CanDB; 11-27-2019, 11:35 AM.

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  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    The truth is that it wasn’t John nor Joe it was all Peyton Manning, Gary Kubiak, Wade Philips and John Fox. Without those guys there are no division titles and there is no Super Bowl victory.

    This is the worst stretch ever in Broncos history. If John doesn’t go anywhere neither will the Broncos.

    It’s not for the courage of the fearless crew, the minnow would be lost and so would you
    So, the 2015 world championship roster just magically formed itself?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam_Z
    replied
    Originally posted by jflee66 View Post
    Yeah, I don't think either Ellis or Elway have any trouble looking in the mirror. They have brought 5 AFC championships and 2 SBs within the last 10yrs so I don't think their worried about their reputations. LOL. They may be down at this time but they will be back. Please......give them a little time. They are human.
    The truth is that it wasn’t John nor Joe it was all Peyton Manning, Gary Kubiak, Wade Philips and John Fox. Without those guys there are no division titles and there is no Super Bowl victory.

    This is the worst stretch ever in Broncos history. If John doesn’t go anywhere neither will the Broncos.

    It’s not for the courage of the fearless crew, the minnow would be lost and so would you

    Leave a comment:


  • jflee66
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    It really is time to move on.

    I don’t know how Joe can be content allowing John to finish out his contract just to avoid a public outcry! This is a business and he’s got to be feeling it in the check book.

    Joe, do what’s right and humble not only him, but also those who think he’s untouchable...!
    Yeah, I don't think either Ellis or Elway have any trouble looking in the mirror. They have brought 5 AFC championships and 2 SBs within the last 10yrs so I don't think their worried about their reputations. LOL. They may be down at this time but they will be back. Please......give them a little time. They are human.

    Leave a comment:


  • CodyRoarkNFL
    replied
    Originally posted by broncolee View Post
    I thought the theory of Ellis to blame for no baby Shanahan was already debunked.

    Wasn’t he even okay with Mike returning as long as there was an extensive search before bringing him back?
    It's something people have lost in the madness of the struggles. Going back to the piece Woody Paige put out, it was noted that Ellis was strongly against bringing back Mike Shanahan.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncolee
    replied
    Originally posted by CodyRoarkNFL View Post
    John Elway certainly deserves a portion of the blame as to what has happened the last three years, but I hardly ever see anybody mentioning Joe Ellis. Not sure many people realize this but Kyle Shanahan not getting a chance in DEN has a lot to do with Ellis and the history there with Mike Shanahan. John Elway wanted to bring in Mike Shanahan this off-season but was veto'd by Ellis, a story that has been long lost in the 3-8 struggles. It's the easy solution to say "Fire John Elway" but it's much harder for people to dive in to the reality of what's going on with the team without an acting owner. There is blame and accountability that can go around. Has John Elway missed on QB? So far yes, and it's a damn hard job to find one. Has he had an impressive draft in back to back seasons? Absolutely he has.

    Fans need to embrace that this team is rebuilding and that it will be ugly for 1-2 years (at the most hopefully). Kyle Shanahan took the 49ers through a rebuild where his first two seasons were awful. He's been able to build through the draft and free agency the last two seasons and so far it's paid off in year 3.

    The players I've spoken to love what Vic Fangio and this staff have done so far within the culture and are wanting to build on that heading into next year.
    I thought the theory of Ellis to blame for no baby Shanahan was already debunked.

    Wasn’t he even okay with Mike returning as long as there was an extensive search before bringing him back?

    Leave a comment:


  • CodyRoarkNFL
    replied
    John Elway certainly deserves a portion of the blame as to what has happened the last three years, but I hardly ever see anybody mentioning Joe Ellis. Not sure many people realize this but Kyle Shanahan not getting a chance in DEN has a lot to do with Ellis and the history there with Mike Shanahan. John Elway wanted to bring in Mike Shanahan this off-season but was veto'd by Ellis, a story that has been long lost in the 3-8 struggles. It's the easy solution to say "Fire John Elway" but it's much harder for people to dive in to the reality of what's going on with the team without an acting owner. There is blame and accountability that can go around. Has John Elway missed on QB? So far yes, and it's a damn hard job to find one. Has he had an impressive draft in back to back seasons? Absolutely he has.

    Fans need to embrace that this team is rebuilding and that it will be ugly for 1-2 years (at the most hopefully). Kyle Shanahan took the 49ers through a rebuild where his first two seasons were awful. He's been able to build through the draft and free agency the last two seasons and so far it's paid off in year 3.

    The players I've spoken to love what Vic Fangio and this staff have done so far within the culture and are wanting to build on that heading into next year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ondavi
    replied
    No, infamy will last forever. . .

    Leave a comment:


  • Ondavi
    replied
    Very well written, stated, and emphasized, with insightful statistics and valid observations. Given such, please help me understand WHY Elway hasn't attempted to publicly address this reality that he is clearly responsible for helping to create, as he continues to personally collect a RIDICULOUS amount ($10,000,000.00 plus a percentage of annual revenue!) monies from the organization for this confirmed poor, unsatisfactory job performance? He is arguably a reasonably intelligent businessman, so why is he allowing his fans to change their beloved feelings and honor towards him by not communicating ANYTHING from regret to frustration to remorse to whatever to them? Wasn't it once said, "Fame can last for 10 to 20 minutes, but INFAMY only one or two minutes?" My quote may be off a bit, but the concept is valid. Can he even be persuaded by ANYONE to try to "save face" by just communicating? If you were in his Italian shoes, what would YOU do at this time? Magnum ciao!

    Leave a comment:

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