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Von Miller: The Myth of Double-Teams

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  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by Rastic View Post
    From pep talk to you're a slacker. Absent any info, that's quite a stretch.
    The fact that his agent had a talk with him validated what we’ve seen from Von since late last season. Nantz and Romo mentioned his agent had to remind Von he’s being paid a lot to play. Since last season Von went five games without a sack. Watching his effort over the first three games he didn’t play at the level he’s capable. Whether we want to get into how much he was double teamed or had one on one matchups, I saw a guy moving at 3/4 speed, not attacking like he should. Over five games he has the 29th ranked pass rush win rate. His best win rate was against Schofield, which boosted his win rate. He definitely stepped up against the Jaguars and Chargers. There were good plays he made that don’t show up as sacks. From what it sounds like his agent had to remind him, in his own way to put more effort on the field. His effort over five games before the Jags game sure looked like he was slacking, IMO.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lumiere
    replied
    Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I provided you with a detailed analysis done by a writer showing the stat was inaccurate. You haven’t disputed the analysis with any evidence.

    Tony Romo commented on a play, he didn’t go back and watch the film from multiple games.

    Have you noticed you’re the only one still defending the notion Von get all the extra attention?

    While you’re bringing up Romo, did you catch the exchange between Nance and Romo during the broadcast? They said Von’s agent had to give him a pep talk. That’s an agent admitting his guy was slacking.
    Just because Hadez is the only one actively arguing his point, doesn't mean others don't disagree with his assessment.

    Many others just don't have time (or care enough) to get into a fruitless online argument.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rastic
    replied
    Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I provided you with a detailed analysis done by a writer showing the stat was inaccurate. You haven’t disputed the analysis with any evidence.

    Tony Romo commented on a play, he didn’t go back and watch the film from multiple games.

    Have you noticed you’re the only one still defending the notion Von get all the extra attention?

    While you’re bringing up Romo, did you catch the exchange between Nance and Romo during the broadcast? They said Von’s agent had to give him a pep talk. That’s an agent admitting his guy was slacking.
    From pep talk to you're a slacker. Absent any info, that's quite a stretch.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    Everyone seems to be wrong except the two people making the arguement

    NFL next stats is wrong
    Tony Romo is wrong
    I am wrong in the triple team attention I pointed out that was completely forgotten about and you called me a liar for saying I watched the Charger game and pointed out a particular play and time it happened

    Do you even notice all the people you are saying are wrong in an effort to make your point?
    I provided you with a detailed analysis done by a writer showing the stat was inaccurate. You haven’t disputed the analysis with any evidence.

    Tony Romo commented on a play, he didn’t go back and watch the film from multiple games.

    Have you noticed you’re the only one still defending the notion Von get all the extra attention?

    While you’re bringing up Romo, did you catch the exchange between Nance and Romo during the broadcast? They said Von’s agent had to give him a pep talk. That’s an agent admitting his guy was slacking.

    Leave a comment:


  • johnlimburg
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    Everyone seems to be wrong except the two people making the arguement

    NFL next stats is wrong
    Tony Romo is wrong
    I am wrong in the triple team attention I pointed out that was completely forgotten about and you called me a liar for saying I watched the Charger game and pointed out a particular play and time it happened

    Do you even notice all the people you are saying are wrong in an effort to make your point?
    1: I argued that the listed 22% of double teams Von Miller had received at that point in time was not receiving "all of the attention" like people had claimed he was receiving, and said it was not an excuse for his lack of production. I never once said those statistics were wrong, ever.

    2: Tony Romo on the broadcast today said that Von Miller was tripled team on a specific play, and on this specific play Tony Romo says, "look at Von Miller, 1, 2, 3". Jim Nantz then says, "Trent Scott on him, Dan Feeney on him as well". That is 2 players who sustained blocks on him, and the replay clearly shows it was a subtle chip from the running back, and the guard came over to assist as a secondary movement as it was a 3 man rush. On a 3 man rush players are going to appear to have dedicated triple teams, but it's a natural reaction from the interior to move to the next rusher. Also, Malik Reed had a chip on the other side as well, the same attention as Miller had on the play.

    3: Do you recall the original statement you made ? You said that when it comes to people thinking that Von is disappearing, it is because he is “double and triple teamed', that teams are dedicating their offensive game plans to stop Miller, and that he wrecks games when he gets one on one match ups. That statement implies it is a regular occurrence, especially the “triple” team comment, that is not a constant theme, it's an outlier. You might find an outlier play here or there, but it’s not a regular game planning tactic by opposition offenses, ever. I also went on to provide an example of a time he was triple teamed as well against the Texans a few years back, so don’t act like I am bias on this topic, I provided as many examples as you did for your side of the argument, one.

    I also went after you so hard on the topic because you phrased these statements by saying that “people don’t understand” that is why it appears Von goes missing in games, and then went on to make these statements. Now, I went back and broke down 7 full games from last season, provided the numbers for how often Von Miller and Bradley Chubb received extra attention on plays, and it was pretty clear that the argument for Von Millers dip in production wasn't due to being "double and triple teamed" like you stated.

    Von was and has been getting plenty of one on one chances, and not making the most of it. Any blaming of a lack of production on receiving extra attention from offenses, or uncalled holds, I just view as fans making excuses for their guys, which is fine, but it's not backed up by what is actually occurring on the field. Von echoed constantly in the media as well that he needed to be better not just this year, but last year when the argument was going on as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peanut
    replied
    Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
    But that's no fun!


    ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Houshmazode
    replied
    Originally posted by Peanut View Post
    Would it be a good idea for you all to agree to disagree and leave it at that? Just a suggestion.
    But that's no fun!

    Leave a comment:


  • Peanut
    replied
    Would it be a good idea for you all to agree to disagree and leave it at that? Just a suggestion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peanut
    replied
    Closed for now.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Are you referring to the "triple team" Romo clearly incorrectly called ? Or have you noticed others ? Are they like the imaginary "triple teams" you apparently seen and couldn't cite in the past ? I have noticed multiple double teams live as well though, and Von is doing a great job of taking advantage of the individual blocking he is receiving. With Chubb out as well, the statement of, Von is receiving "all of the attention" might actually hold some weight this time.
    Everyone seems to be wrong except the two people making the arguement

    NFL next stats is wrong
    Tony Romo is wrong
    I am wrong in the triple team attention I pointed out that was completely forgotten about and you called me a liar for saying I watched the Charger game and pointed out a particular play and time it happened

    Do you even notice all the people you are saying are wrong in an effort to make your point?

    Leave a comment:


  • johnlimburg
    replied
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    Multiple double and triple teams have been pointed out today

    Von still making a difference tho
    Are you referring to the "triple team" Romo clearly incorrectly called ? Or have you noticed others ? Are they like the imaginary "triple teams" you apparently seen and couldn't cite in the past ? I have noticed multiple double teams live as well though, and Von is doing a great job of taking advantage of the individual blocking he is receiving. With Chubb out as well, the statement of, Von is receiving "all of the attention" might actually hold some weight this time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hadez
    replied
    Multiple double and triple teams have been pointed out today

    Von still making a difference tho

    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by Peerless View Post
    Part of the problem for Miller (and Chubb) is that we haven't really played with a lead. I'm sure it's more difficult for rushers to get into the mindset of "I'm going to tee off on this quarterback" when they're always playing from behind. Outside of the GB game, we've also allowed teams to make second and third down pretty manageable - as in second and short, third and short.

    Miller and company may not have sacks, but they did hold one of the best QB's in the NFL to 259 yards, with a very average 58% completion rate. GB was also pretty poort on third down - 2 for 9.
    It would help to get sacks/turnovers but as you noted the overall defensive play was pretty good (especially on the road). It’s nearly impossible to win with multiple turnovers by the offense. Those turnovers also put the defense on the field 3 more times than they should have been. One of the turnovers deep in our end. There is room to improve the defense but the offense has to play better - penalties last week and turnovers yesterday.

    Leave a comment:


  • KWHIT97
    replied
    I used to say Von is better than Mack, now I don’t think he’s even close. Mack disrupts and takes games over, Von is just collecting a paycheck.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peerless
    replied
    Part of the problem for Miller (and Chubb) is that we haven't really played with a lead. I'm sure it's more difficult for rushers to get into the mindset of "I'm going to tee off on this quarterback" when they're always playing from behind. Outside of the GB game, we've also allowed teams to make second and third down pretty manageable - as in second and short, third and short.

    Miller and company may not have sacks, but they did hold one of the best QB's in the NFL to 259 yards, with a very average 58% completion rate. GB was also pretty poort on third down - 2 for 9.

    Leave a comment:

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