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  • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
    I think Flacco will continue playing unless the team hits final four games at 2-10 or 4-8, which looks very possible at this point. Not sure how Lock will play however it’s better to get experience instead of wasting time with Flacco.
    I agree 100%
    In my best Terrell Owen's voice...on Justin Fields. "That's my quarterback"

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    • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
      I know u was just replying. I was agreeing with you. My bad for the confusion.
      My bad. I didn't read it that way. Lol

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      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
        I think Flacco will continue playing unless the team hits final four games at 2-10 or 4-8, which looks very possible at this point. Not sure how Lock will play however it’s better to get experience instead of wasting time with Flacco.
        I agree as well. However this is the same FO and coaching staff that wasted almost all the reps with the 2's on Kevin Hogan, who didn't even make the final roster. Even if Lock has talent, I don't trust they will know how to properly develop him. Because of their inability to develop and hone a young QB, they will likely cling to Flacco for as long as they can.
        Superbowl 50 Champions!

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        • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
          I agree as well. However this is the same FO and coaching staff that wasted almost all the reps with the 2's on Kevin Hogan, who didn't even make the final roster. Even if Lock has talent, I don't trust they will know how to properly develop him. Because of their inability to develop and hone a young QB, they will likely cling to Flacco for as long as they can.
          Spot on. I followed Hogan as far back as high school because he was a local prospect where we live. Hogan wasn’t capable of getting the job done and proved so early in camp. It’s another example of an inexperienced head coach who made a poor decision. Even if Fangio and Scangarelo make the right decisions, it’s likely Elway will meddle in the process.

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          • That 1st pre season game Hogan looked way better then Lock . However by game 2 that wasnt the case . Lock easily had #2 spot .

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            • Originally posted by Ear2dastreets View Post
              I agree 100%
              I found a quote that made me think of your desire to have a mobile QB:

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              • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                I found a quote that made me think of your desire to have a mobile QB:

                Exactlyyyyyyt. Perfect words. We will never be successful with him here. This say in the pocket. Snaps from under the center is dying. That's why we can't score 20 points. We have no playmakers on offense. Secondary is old. We need a major rebuild.
                In my best Terrell Owen's voice...on Justin Fields. "That's my quarterback"

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                • Can someone explain again why Flacco's contract was restructured? I thought it was to bring in another upper tier player. Is Elway daring Ellis to fire him by making unexplainable decisions like this?

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                  • Originally posted by AZBobalu View Post
                    Can someone explain again why Flacco's contract was restructured? I thought it was to bring in another upper tier player. Is Elway daring Ellis to fire him by making unexplainable decisions like this?
                    This is what I want an answer to as well. The rumor was that they were trying to re-sign Simmons, but at this point he may not want to even re-sign. I was told by many posters here that it wasn't a big deal, that it was just a simple cap decision that had no ramifications, but uh, wow, it really does now. Flacco is truly going to be a dead cap suck over the next two years, three if we keep him longer. What a stupid decision that has had zero benefit.
                    Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                    • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
                      This is what I want an answer to as well. The rumor was that they were trying to re-sign Simmons, but at this point he may not want to even re-sign. I was told by many posters here that it wasn't a big deal, that it was just a simple cap decision that had no ramifications, but uh, wow, it really does now. Flacco is truly going to be a dead cap suck over the next two years, three if we keep him longer. What a stupid decision that has had zero benefit.
                      Any of the handful of talented young players should want out of Denver. Elway rewards guys like Heuerman and pays big money to injury prone players. Then he turns around and plays hardball with guys who should earn more.

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                      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                        There are a handful of talented players. I know it’s not popular to talk about trading Von however, the roster is well past the chance of winning by adding a player here or there. Elway restructured Von’s contract which put his cap number highest during years he’s declining. Trade for the most value and create max cap space.

                        Trade/release Flacco to free up cap space. Wolfe is done. I wouldn’t sign Sanders to another contract. It’s different when you’re the Patriots signing Edelman to a 2 year deal because they’re contending for a championship. Keep Callahan through 2020 and assess whether or not to release him (cap savings by releasing him before 2021). If he plays well in 2020 then he’s worth keeping. Try to work a 2 year/3rd year option with CHJ. If not then part ways.

                        It’s time to stop bringing in stop gap quarterbacks and get serious about building to compete in two to three years. The approach used over the past several years has failed. It’s not bashing the FO - it’s reality.
                        So we trade/cut Wolfe. Trade Von. Trade/Cut Flacco.

                        The question is this - Flacco's contract is mid level to cheap by today's standards. So if he can play at or above average then why not keep him (at least for now). My other question or point is that we then have (and I am referring to actual talent):

                        - Lindsay
                        - Risner
                        - Sutton
                        - Patrick

                        - Bausby (decent)
                        - CHJ
                        - Chubb
                        - Reed
                        - Gotsis (decent)
                        - Hollins (decent)
                        - Harris (looking more like top tier depth)

                        So the biggest question is how is the team to be rebuilt? Speed? Size? Running? Passing?

                        I also think that more importantly we need to decide what we want to be 'known' for. I think that if we do trade away Flacco we need to move in Lock to asses his ability. If he shows flashes then IMO we need to focus on top shelf OL players and do what we can to acquire top CBs to assist with pass rush.

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                        • This is tough. Now that the season seems all but lost, I want to know if we have something in Drew Lock, and I think the only way to do that is to throw him into the fire and see how he responds. What's unfortunate is that while Flacco has been far from great, he also has led us on what should have been two game winning drives already this season. It is not Flacco's fault we are 0-4. I think our QB play is miles ahead of where we have been the past few seasons. I just can't understand how we actually are 0-4. I can't point to one thing in particular. It's extremely frustrating as a fan, and I actually do feel a bit bad for Joe, but I vote yes - let's just see what Lock can give us.
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                          • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
                            Any of the handful of talented young players should want out of Denver. Elway rewards guys like Heuerman and pays big money to injury prone players. Then he turns around and plays hardball with guys who should earn more.
                            Talib really had it right when he said Elway needed to stop firing all the dogs. We have no dogs left on this team.
                            Superbowl 50 Champions!

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                            • Originally posted by TheAsianPA View Post
                              This is what I want an answer to as well. The rumor was that they were trying to re-sign Simmons, but at this point he may not want to even re-sign. I was told by many posters here that it wasn't a big deal, that it was just a simple cap decision that had no ramifications, but uh, wow, it really does now. Flacco is truly going to be a dead cap suck over the next two years, three if we keep him longer. What a stupid decision that has had zero benefit.
                              Maybe Elways logic is that for all the dumb decisions he makes, Eliss will force him to suffer through them all!

                              Seriously I keep telling ppl that Elway won’t be fired however a winless season with no repercussions looks very bad on a Eliss’s resume as well so perhaps he’ll grow a pair and dismiss the responsible parties.
                              Last edited by Sam_Z; 09-29-2019, 09:12 PM.
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                              • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                                So we trade/cut Wolfe. Trade Von. Trade/Cut Flacco.

                                The question is this - Flacco's contract is mid level to cheap by today's standards. So if he can play at or above average then why not keep him (at least for now). My other question or point is that we then have (and I am referring to actual talent):

                                - Lindsay
                                - Risner
                                - Sutton
                                - Patrick

                                - Bausby (decent)
                                - CHJ
                                - Chubb
                                - Reed
                                - Gotsis (decent)
                                - Hollins (decent)
                                - Harris (looking more like top tier depth)

                                So the biggest question is how is the team to be rebuilt? Speed? Size? Running? Passing?

                                I also think that more importantly we need to decide what we want to be 'known' for. I think that if we do trade away Flacco we need to move in Lock to asses his ability. If he shows flashes then IMO we need to focus on top shelf OL players and do what we can to acquire top CBs to assist with pass rush.
                                Trading/moving on from Flacco provides $27.5 million cap savings over 2020-21. Trading Von provides just under $32 million cap savings over 2020-21. Those two moves alone create nearly $60 million in cap over the next two years. There is no way to justify burning $60 million in cap on two players when your team cannot generate a win.

                                With the expected cap plus more from moving on from guys like Flacco and Von, sign the few talented players on the roster and bring in young talented free agents. Build around a young QB like Lock and maybe take a shot at drafting another.

                                Guys like Wolfe can walk as an UFA - no way should he get another contract.

                                I’m not even convinced CHJ should be in Denver after 2019. He makes some plays but he is bad for team moral IMO. He constantly blames others, even when he’s been burned.

                                This roster needs to be reworked from top to bottom. Von still has a few plays left in him but he can’t makeup for 52 other guys. Why tie up $73 million in cap by keeping him the next three years? The Broncos aren’t close enough with him on the roster.

                                Lock needs to start as soon as soon as the ligament in his hand is fully healed. Start the evaluation to see if he has the potential. Wasting time continuing with Flacco.
                                Last edited by Fantaztic7; 09-29-2019, 09:25 PM.

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