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Should John Elway be fired?

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  • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
    And the biggest detriment over that time frame was a competent Qb

    I believe we have one now

    People need to just quit crying over spilt milk

    And look at the positives

    Even this year with horrid QB play all season
    We could easily be a 8 win team right now
    If bad calls and good kicking didn’t get in the way
    John Elway is responsible for the incompetent quarterback play. I’m not convinced Lock is the long term answer. He definitely has potential however I’ve seen some of the same tendencies he had at Missouri.

    The Broncos aren’t an eight win team and trying to re-write games won’t change the record.

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    • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
      Going to someone for advice isn’t inherently bad and can be good. The issue is potentially putting too much weight behind the advice, especially with a very limited resume. When you ask a young quarterback to throw the ball 40 times in a road game, in the snow in a hostile environment, I don’t believe that’s something Lock needs from Scangarello.
      Well, what's the point of going to someone for advice if you don't use the information you were given???

      Isn't Lock auditioning for his job? I think asking him to throw it 40 times in a hostile environment is just part of the plan to see if he can handle it. I think he did ok, not great but it's a game to learn from. I was pretty hard on Lamar Jackson because of his inaccurate throws but he made a huge leap this year and he is being credited with non stop work on his craft. Lock is putting in that same work and I expect him to be better every game he plays.

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      • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
        I'd say you are correct sir, it would appear the sky is NOT falling
        To infinity and beyond!
        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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        • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post
          John Elway is responsible for the incompetent quarterback play. I’m not convinced Lock is the long term answer. He definitely has potential however I’ve seen some of the same tendencies he had at Missouri.

          The Broncos aren’t an eight win team and trying to re-write games won’t change the record.
          And again

          Why was the broncos forced to not only hire a coach but draft a QB

          Because kubiak retired and OZ spazzed out

          Yes lynch was a mistake, but drafting qbs isn’t a guaranteed thing
          So at that point we were the defending world champs and trying to find competent qb play to continue to win was the goal

          But who were the QBs out there... there was none so we ended up with siemian
          For two years because Paxton never worked to be the guy, he didn’t have the work ethic

          Keenum and Flacco were desperate grasps at trying to win

          But now we’re locked, and getting loaded should be our goal

          At some point non stop whining over mistakes gets old
          sigpic
          when do native Americans become human and not mascots

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          • Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
            Well, what's the point of going to someone for advice if you don't use the information you were given???

            Isn't Lock auditioning for his job? I think asking him to throw it 40 times in a hostile environment is just part of the plan to see if he can handle it. I think he did ok, not great but it's a game to learn from. I was pretty hard on Lamar Jackson because of his inaccurate throws but he made a huge leap this year and he is being credited with non stop work on his craft. Lock is putting in that same work and I expect him to be better every game he plays.
            I’m not saying Lock won’t be successful, just need to see more reps and improvement. Throwing 40 vs 15 run isn’t a good way to “test” a young quarterback, especially on the road in those conditions. You don’t setup a young player for failure and that’s exactly what Scangarello did with that heavy pass attack without adjusting protection.

            I’ve consistently praised Lock’s work ethic, long before most recognized that fact was well established at Missouri. It’s also well documented he takes more risk than necessary by putting too much faith in his arm. Today’s back to back interceptions illustrated his tendency to take too much risk (one break for defensive holding). He didn’t play a bad game and there were obviously other factors with dropped balls and poor protection.

            After the game Lock said he’s just going to keep slinging the ball around. That’s not the right approach and it won’t work in the NFL. He’ll need to be more disciplined in order to win consistently.
            Last edited by Fantaztic7; 12-15-2019, 07:55 PM.

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            • Mike Shanahan has a lot of experience running a WCO system with measurable success. He seems to have been able to impart a lot of knowledge that his son has been able build upon. Elway obviously has experience under his system but deep knowledge required to build an offensive scheme, I think, it somewhat outside his purview. It isn't surprising Shanahan, someone Elway knows quite well, was asked to come in to consult on Scangs.

              Was Elway influenced? I think that's a silly question. The point of having a consultant is to give insight and expertise as an outside source. I could easily see the opposite conversation happening if Scangs was not hired and how awful Elway is for not listening to Shanahan's input.

              This isn't a hill to die on as far as Elway's tenure in Denver..

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              • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                And again

                Why was the broncos forced to not only hire a coach but draft a QB

                Because kubiak retired and OZ spazzed out

                Yes lynch was a mistake, but drafting qbs isn’t a guaranteed thing

                So at that point we were the defending world champs and trying to find competent qb play to continue to win was the goal

                But who were the QBs out there... there was none so we ended up with siemian
                For two years because Paxton never worked to be the guy, he didn’t have the work ethic

                Keenum and Flacco were desperate grasps at trying to win

                But now we’re locked, and getting loaded should be our goal

                At some point non stop whining over mistakes gets old
                I agree. We spent a 23 on Lynch, a 57 on Os and a 42 on Lock. All that draft capital combined probably wouldn't get us any better than a top 14 pick.

                After Peyton retired, Elway's first plan was to go with Os. When that didn't work (lucky), we signed Mark Sanchez. I'm guessing Elway wanted him to be the backup and really wanted Kap and that didn't work out (lucky). So almost in desperation Elway drafted Lynch as Plan C. Turns out, Siemian was a better QB.

                My complaint is more the guys we didn't draft like Russel Wilson or maybe Dak. I wanted both the year they came out. And to be fair, Jerry also wanted Lynch and "settled" for Dak. We probably could have also had either Mahomes or Watson if we wanted.

                Flacco and Keenum were mistakes, but Elway did a good job minimizing his losses and considering the risk weren't bad gambles.

                I can at least understand almost all of Elway's decisions, if I don't agree with them. The one decision of Elway's that I'll never understand is hiring VJ.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by arapaho View Post
                  And again

                  Why was the broncos forced to not only hire a coach but draft a QB

                  Because kubiak retired and OZ spazzed out

                  Yes lynch was a mistake, but drafting qbs isn’t a guaranteed thing
                  So at that point we were the defending world champs and trying to find competent qb play to continue to win was the goal

                  But who were the QBs out there... there was none so we ended up with siemian
                  For two years because Paxton never worked to be the guy, he didn’t have the work ethic

                  Keenum and Flacco were desperate grasps at trying to win

                  But now we’re locked, and getting loaded should be our goal

                  At some point non stop whining over mistakes gets old
                  Making a mistake with one quarterback is one thing. Elway missed with Lynch, Sanchez Siemian, Osweiler (2nd time), Keenum and Flacco. Lock is a prospect at this point - I think he’s a decent prospect but only time will tell. Elway wasted quarterback development with reps on guys like Hogan.

                  The notion there were no other quarterbacks is a false narrative. There were free agents Elway overlooked in favor of Siemian. Ryan Fitzpatrick, for example. There were draft prospects like Dak Prescott and Jacoby Brissett. I thought Brissett was a good prospect, certainly better than Lynch.

                  The issues go beyond quarterback, starting with the offensive line. Elway followed a bad pick with Lynch in 2016 with Bolles in 2017. Elway has repeatedly missed with free agents, Okung, Stephenson, Watson, Veldheer, Leary and now Ja’Wuan James. It’s one thing to make a mistake, another to continue handing out bad contracts.

                  The line has one solid player with Risner. I give credit to Elway for a solid pick there. At the same time four positions need to be upgraded.

                  There are a few bright spots on the roster including Sutton. Lindsay is good but he can’t carry the load without a solid #2. Freeman is just a guy, nothing more and he’s sub par in pass protection.

                  Von Miller is in the twilight of his career and clearly frustrated with the state of the team based on his comments after the game. Chris Harris Jr is likely on the way out - no way is he worth what he’s demanded.

                  No amount of excuses can cover up the fact this team is 16-30 over the last three seasons.
                  Last edited by Fantaztic7; 12-15-2019, 08:52 PM.

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                  • Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post
                    Super Bowl contending Broncos teams have looked this bad in Arrowhead before. I’m not going to over react to this game in the snow with a rookie QB. It’s painful but it is what it is.
                    The Broncos are 16-30 since 2017. Their 16 wins have come against 12 teams, six of which have losing records over the same span. They rarely win against quality teams. No overreacting here, just the facts.

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                      Last edited by Rastic; 12-15-2019, 09:33 PM.

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                      • So, are we all on the 'yargh har har fire Elway' bandwagon again because the Broncos lost a game that they should have lost? Inquiring minds want to know.
                        Adopt-A-Bronco: Kendell Hinton

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                        • the only really obvious mistake it seems he has made this last off season was signing James. otherwise it was a really good offseason and helping to make up for his bad drafts.
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                          oakland raders gm
                          latavis murray trade bait

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                          • While elway hasn’t had the best few years. Man y’all really try to eat him up and make it all about him. Now that this team finally has a QB. Let’s see what they do. This off-season is the ultimate test. Because they finally found the QB. There’s no more excuses. So give the man one more year before you come with the pitchforks.

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