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The Reasons Why We Are Where We Are

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  • #16
    Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
    They landed FAs because of Manning. I give Elway credit for landing Manning, but the windfall of FAs that occurred afterwards was due to Manning, not FO savvy.

    I personally think drafting has been downright bad for the most part, so I guess I’ll just agree to disagree on that one.
    Miller, Wolfe, Jackson, J. Thomas, Osweiler were all drafted during these years. They were all major contributors during our Super Bowl win and our successful years from 2012-2015.
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    • #17
      They are bad because we have had terrible drafting before last year. It is really that simple you can't draft bad and still. Build a contender
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      oakland raders gm
      latavis murray trade bait

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      • #18
        Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
        Miller, Wolfe, Jackson, J. Thomas, Osweiler were all drafted during these years. They were all major contributors during our Super Bowl win.
        Julius was a product of Manning. He’s out of football now. So is Oz. So if those draft picks, 2 are still on the team. I personally think Wolfe is a little over rated, but that’s just me.

        I’m not even really disagreeing about Manning. I just think he masked a lot of the poor decisions Elway started making even early on in his tenure.

        Kind of funny, we seem to be in a debate, but I don’t really disagree with your original post. I just added that Elway showed signs of poor GMing early on. Do you think Elway is a good GM? If so, I’ll just agree to disagree on that portion.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
          Julius was a product of Manning. He’s out of football now. So is Oz. So if those draft picks, 2 are still on the team. I personally think Wolfe is a little over rated, but that’s just me.

          I’m not even really disagreeing about Manning. I just think he masked a lot of the poor decisions Elway started making even early on in his tenure.

          Kind of funny, we seem to be in a debate, but I don’t really disagree with your original post. I just added that Elway showed signs of poor GMing early on. Do you think Elway is a good GM? If so, I’ll just agree to disagree on that portion.
          I don't think Elway has been a good GM for the past 4 or 5 years, no. But I do think he was an amazing GM from 2011-2015. This team went from the most prolific offense in history, losing the Super Bowl, only to completely revamp and reshape the team into a defensive powerhouse and win the Super Bowl. Regardless of how I feel about Elway now, I'm not diminishing that.

          The problem is Elway completely mishandled the quarterback situation following Super Bowl 50, and it's been downhill since.
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          • #20
            I will also add, that Elway should have been fired after last season and not been in a position to hire Fangio.
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            • #21
              Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
              I don't think Elway has been a good GM for the past 4 or 5 years, no. But I do think he was an amazing GM from 2011-2015. This team went from the most prolific offense in history, losing the Super Bowl, only to completely revamp and reshape the team into a defensive powerhouse and win the Super Bowl. Regardless of how I feel about Elway now, I'm not diminishing that.

              The problem is Elway completely mishandled the quarterback situation following Super Bowl 50, and it's been downhill since.
              Fair enough. I just credit that success to Manning way more than Elway. O-line was an issue even with Manning and he’s failed miserably on that front from the beginning.

              Still, I get your point and I agree that era was amazing.
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              • #22
                Elway is not an effective manager. The fact that he retained Matt Russell after the DUI says it all. When a manager doesn’t hold a subordinate accountable the organization suffers.

                Failing to identify the right quarterback is the next most important reason. Whether it was going to be a veteran or developing a young signal caller, Elway failed.

                Elway also failed to build a solid offensive line. Risner looks solid but too little too late. He paid too much for guys like Donald Stephenson, Menelik Watson and Ronald Leary. He brought in the type of players Belichick would pass on. Ja’Wuan James thus far looks like a high priced contract for a guy who will not play a lot.

                Elway repeats the same mistakes. For example he drafted guys like Jeff Heuerman coming off injury in college. What did Elway do? Drafted Jake Butt, another injury prone player. Bryce Callahan was awarded a nice contract coming off a bad foot injury. Elway handed out too many contracts to guys that don’t produce.

                Lastly, Elway hired Vance Joseph. The worst part was sticking with Vance after it was clear he was in over his head. Vance was a bad hire because he didn’t have enough experience. What did he do? Hired another coach without head coaching experience.

                Elway is the common denominator. Just because someone had success doesn’t mean they can replicate it. Some of the most successful companies are not run by the founder. It takes effective, consistent management to sustain success.

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                • #23
                  There were 74,000+ at the game tonight. Joe Ellis won’t change anything with a loyal fan base supporting a losing team. The Broncos have the worst record over 3+ seasons following a Super Bowl since 1993. As long as fans stay loyal with a losing franchise management has no reason to change a thing. Losing is the new norm.

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                  • #24
                    John Elway made the biggest free agent signing in NFL history by bringing Peyton Manning here, and the flow on effect of that move was huge. Having Manning in the building was the ultimate bargaining chip, and the ultimate masking agent for Elways now evident ineptitude when it comes to building a quality football team. Yes, while Manning was here, Elway brought in several high profile free agents, they all wanted to come here, and they were huge in winning that Superbowl in 2015. But, during that period from 2012-2015, Elway failed to draft consistently, and his 2016 and 2017 drafts were even worse.

                    So, once Manning left and free agent talent no longer wanted to come here, we had no drafted players coming through developing. Who was the last drafted player we gave a significant contract to in order to keep them around ? Which player earned a large second contract from Elway to hang around here ? I'll wait. It's been a long time, why ? Because in that period I previously mentioned, when we had Manning masking all the issues going on in the drafting and development area of the team, Elway consistently missed on draft picks, draft after draft after draft, and the team had no one to develop.

                    Obviously bad coaching hires and bad quarterback decisions get the media attention, and the fans point all the blame at that, but that is the easy out. It's like fans blaming solely coaching when things don't go well, it's lazy. When you peel the layers back, Elway just isn't good at his job. I have seen people say it around here, and I would never say it, "Elway got lucky in 2015. But I will say it was definitely an anomaly on how to build a championship roster, and one which doesn't happen without an all-time great hitting the open market, something which probably will never happen again.

                    I have liked the last 2 Elway drafts, but the multiple years of bad ones have caught up to this team, and it's going to be a few more years until this thing starts trending upwards. I have said for 3 straight off-season now that this thing needs to be completely re-built, but Elway is stuck in this middle area where he seems to think everything can be fixed in one off-season, and he slaps band-aids on areas of the team which need to be severed. I don't like where we are, and I said if the Flacco move didn't pan out, it was the last straw for me when it comes to Elway, and right now I want Elway fired.

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                    • #25
                      Manning???? The dude retired. What do you mean should’ve brought him back?

                      I’m as critical of Elway as anybody this year but let’s please get some perspective.
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                      • #26
                        The fault lies at the GM’s Door Step !

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                          Manning bounced back very well in the playoffs, and could have been efficient (at least competent) in 2016 had they actually built the offense around him instead of forcing him in the Kubiak system.

                          He certainly was a better option than Siemian, even with a declining arm.
                          The entire thing is debatable, especially the arm. You think it was declining, some think it was dead. And I think a lot of people think Manning would have come back if welcomed, but I personally think he saw the opportunity to go out a champion, knew his physical limitations, and took it.
                          All it takes to win is doing whatever it takes to win: COMMITMENT

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                            I narrow it down to questionable coaching selections, not finding a quality QB (for some time), and neglecting to put a decent Oline together....year after year.
                            The biggest question marks I have about Elway is his selection of coaches and his inability to find OL. We can not find good OL in draft or free agency.

                            According to Elway's pressers while searching for the current head coach he seemed to have some kind of revelation about his history with finding coaches. I think the coaching staff has shown signs this year of improving the team in some ways though last night was definitely a regression moment in a lot of areas.

                            Now the question to be answered....we now have Munchak as OL coach....what are we doing different in terms of scouting and acquiring OL.
                            Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                              1) Not bringing Manning back for the final year of his contract.

                              2) Not re-signing Brock before he left for Houston.

                              3) Hiring Vance Joseph.

                              4) Letting Wade Phillips Walk.

                              5) Bringing Elway back after last season.
                              1. Manning would only have been worth it if we brought him back as a mentor for a newly draft QB1 or a young QB which we had playing. Aside form that role he was not worth it.

                              2. Brock showed that his mild success with us was not transferable and thus the outrageous contract he commanded was better suited for Houston to absorb. Hell Houston PAID to have him leave their team.

                              3. I agree.

                              4. I agree but #3 had a lot to do with #4. If we had brought in someone else then Wade would have come back for his price. This would have also allowed us to keep CHJ & Talib.

                              5. I am neutral on this. The issue I have is it is VERY difficult to draw the line between where Ellis is demanding Elway to do things and Elway is actually doing them. It was my understanding that Elway wanted to fire Vance after his poor season. It was also relayed to the media that VJ was an "Ellis guy".



                              In reality we really shot ourselves in the foot with the Paxton Lynch draft pick. We then further shot ourselves in the foot by drafting Bolles and not truly targeting Witworth in FA. Then there is the overall lack of a plan and team identity/direction. We let guys like Ward, Talib, Jackson all go but never had any replacements in the wings waiting to take their spot.

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                              • #30
                                The Broncos should have brought in Kyle Shanahan as their future head coach. They should have bound him to a chair - asked him how much he wanted - and deposited it directly to his checking account.

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