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The Reasons Why We Are Where We Are

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  • #61
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
    I just don't believe Manning was done. People can disagree, but he was not suited for Kubiak's system and they clearly tried to make him play that system.
    Peyton Manning quarterbacked the team that won the Super Bowl under "Kubiak's system". But, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that I know of that Manning was done. And it may have had something to do with increased attention on the use of HGH. My theory is that the shipment to Manning's wife may be what extended Manning's career after the multiple neck surgeries. But, with the increased attention, came a concern over UA testing.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
      Peyton Manning quarterbacked the team that won the Super Bowl under "Kubiak's system". But, there is no doubt in anyone's mind that I know of that Manning was done. And it may have had something to do with increased attention on the use of HGH. My theory is that the shipment to Manning's wife may be what extended Manning's career after the multiple neck surgeries. But, with the increased attention, came a concern over UA testing.
      I'm not getting into the HGH business. Manning's decline in play also occurred after Elway ordered Fox to change the offense (after the Rams loss) and then brought in Kubiak in the off season.

      When Manning came back after being more or less benched, he played within Kubiak's system because he had no choice, and the defense carried them to victory even though Manning had played much more efficiently in the playoffs than he did in the regular season.

      Again, I know this is speculation but IMO Manning had at least one more year left in him had the team built the offense around him instead of forcing him under center or in the pistol. The Broncos simply did not want him to come back. But I will say this, having Manning even with a bad arm if that's really what it was, was still a better option than Sanchez, Siemian, or Lynch.
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      • #63
        Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
        I just don't believe Manning was done. People can disagree, but he was not suited for Kubiak's system and they clearly tried to make him play that system.
        Manning chose to retire. We didn't force him into it and there was little to nothing we could have done to talk him into returning for one more season.

        I think after how he played that year, he could see the writing on the wall. That's why he told Belicheck after the AFC CG that this was probably his last rodeo. He knew well he was a shell of his former self and wanted to go out on top. I don't balme him for that and I don't mind that we let him go out on his own terms.

        And letting Osweiler take Houston's money rather than try to make him a bigger offer is probably Elway's second best decision he's made with the QB position as a GM. Osweiler was never gonna be a franchise guy, no matter how long he played here.
        Eternal Broncos Optimist

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        • #64
          Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
          I agree VJ was a bad decision.
          Manning could barely play anymore, Brock was clearly not a starting QB, showed that in Houston, Miami, and by chasing the money instead of staying in Denver. If he believed in himself he would have stayed, balled out and then force the broncos to pay him, instead he chased the money because he didn’t know if he’d get another chance, I don’t blame him but shows how much he believed in himself.

          The Elway debate is a 3 to 5 year issue, it can’t be fixed in one year. We don’t bring Elway back last season, we would still be a bad team. I think we are where we are because Elway has failed to provide this team with a coach who can change the culture, and players who can play. Unfortunately I believe we have to give Fangio this season and 2 more. He needs to be give the players to execute his defense and figure out if Scangerello is the guy or not. After the 2021 season we will hopefully have the ownership situation resolved and then the future can start.
          Right now we are stuck until we get an owner, Ellis is just going through the motions, and Elway is painted in a corner forced to watch all his decisions play out in what probably seems like a nightmare.
          Osweiler played solid for the most part in 7 games, and that’s after coming off the bench. Staying in Denver would have provided him with continuity on offense and players he knew. Elway could have offered him an extension in 2015 at a fraction of the contract he ultimately signed. Sure he was butt hurt over being benched. That could be looked at from two sides, 1) He cared enough to be mad, 2) He needed to be coached through the situation by Kubiak. Even if he wouldn’t have panned out he would have been a relatively inexpensive backup (if Elway would have extended him going into 2015).

          Moving on from Elway would have started the process a year sooner. The ownership today is the trust with Ellis, Kelly and Slivka. Ellis is banking on past success with little to no evidence the Broncos are moving in the right direction. The two wins were against mediocre teams. Last night was absolute garbage. If Mahomes didn’t go down KC would have dunked on the Broncos with 50+ points.

          Elway is a liability at this point. There will be a point when he’ll be remembered for not only what he accomplished, but how he contributed to the downfall of a once great franchise.
          Last edited by Fantaztic7; 10-18-2019, 12:45 PM.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by ELWAY421 View Post
            There are a ton of reasons we are where we are. I'll just say it's downright depressing. Thankfully I have college football to ease some of the pain.
            Same. My college team is my salvation. I drive the 140 miles to go to many of their games. I haven't driven the 500 miles to a broncos game since Manning was still playing for Denver.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post
              Manning chose to retire. We didn't force him into it and there was little to nothing we could have done to talk him into returning for one more season.

              I think after how he played that year, he could see the writing on the wall. That's why he told Belicheck after the AFC CG that this was probably his last rodeo. He knew well he was a shell of his former self and wanted to go out on top. I don't balme him for that and I don't mind that we let him go out on his own terms.

              And letting Osweiler take Houston's money rather than try to make him a bigger offer is probably Elway's second best decision he's made with the QB position as a GM. Osweiler was never gonna be a franchise guy, no matter how long he played here.
              That's not true. It was reported at the time that the Broncos were not bringing Manning back regardless if he retired, and that if Manning chose to play another year they would have cut him.

              Could Manning have gone to another team? Absolutely. But he had already gotten a home in Denver as well as had several business investments in the area, and he didn't want to start over with a new franchise at his age. But Manning wanted to finish out his contract.
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              • #67
                The reason why we are where we are: Elway

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                  That's not true. It was reported at the time that the Broncos were not bringing Manning back regardless if he retired, and that if Manning chose to play another year they would have cut him.

                  Could Manning have gone to another team? Absolutely. But he had already gotten a home in Denver as well as had several business investments in the area, and he didn't want to start over with a new franchise at his age. But Manning wanted to finish out his contract.
                  When you need a trainer/equipment tech to remove your cleats and shoulder pads, you’re done. It took him 7 weeks to heal the plantar fasciitis. Problems with his foot would have likely come back.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                    That's not true. It was reported at the time that the Broncos were not bringing Manning back regardless if he retired, and that if Manning chose to play another year they would have cut him.

                    Could Manning have gone to another team? Absolutely. But he had already gotten a home in Denver as well as had several business investments in the area, and he didn't want to start over with a new franchise at his age. But Manning wanted to finish out his contract.
                    I genuinely don't believe this. If you have a source article, I'd be interested in reading it. Manning was playing very poorly. So poorly he got benched for Osweiler. Manning is one of the smartest QBs to ever play the game. There's no way he didn't realize he was just about done by the time the playoffs rolled around.
                    Eternal Broncos Optimist

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Megalodon30 View Post
                      I genuinely don't believe this. If you have a source article, I'd be interested in reading it. Manning was playing very poorly. So poorly he got benched for Osweiler. Manning is one of the smartest QBs to ever play the game. There's no way he didn't realize he was just about done by the time the playoffs rolled around.
                      I can only tell you what I heard via radio and other sources. There were also reports Elway was wanting to move on from Manning after 2014 and the loss to the Colts in the playoffs but was more or less talked out of it.

                      Elway was done with Manning and Fox after Super Bowl 48. That's why he completely retooled the team over the 2014 and 2015 seasons.

                      Whether you believe it or not, I can't change that.
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                      • #71
                        Manning was done before the 2015 season. He was shot-putting the ball and could no longer drive a pass to the sidelines, let alone downfield. DBs feasted on the lack of velocity all season. That said, he was no doubt a leader and played a big role getting the team to the top. He just would not have done it without the extraordinary defense we had in 2015, and kudos to him for recognizing that and going out on top.

                        Back to the OP, the primary reason we are here is whiffing on QBs. I read an article somewhere about how a 1st round QB miss costs a team 5 years. That seems about right. We dodged a bullet not signing Oz, but Lynch killed us, and the parade of crappy stop-gaps continues. Add draft misses like Bolles, Gotsis, Williams, and <insert all drafted LBs except Chubb here>, and it's no wonder only 3rd tier FAs want to play in Denver. We have some nice young pieces, but until we have a QB the team can rally and build around, the misery will continue. Hopefully Lock is activated and plays well enough to inspire some hope for an upswing.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post
                          I can only tell you what I heard via radio and other sources. There were also reports Elway was wanting to move on from Manning after 2014 and the loss to the Colts in the playoffs but was more or less talked out of it.

                          Elway was done with Manning and Fox after Super Bowl 48. That's why he completely retooled the team over the 2014 and 2015 seasons.

                          Whether you believe it or not, I can't change that.
                          What I know for certain is that he told Belicheck that this was probably his "last rodeo," after the AFC championship game. That doesn't sound like a guy planning to play one more year.
                          Eternal Broncos Optimist

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