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Noah Can't Play

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  • dizzolve
    replied
    Here's an interesting discussion on the Fant pick as we look back NOW rather than in the preseason for instance. And how Fant contrasts with the Devin Bush comparison.



    It's pro-Noah

    Some of the stats cited are starting to sound impressive.

    The comparison is silly when you say 'would you rather have Devin Bush or would you rather have Noah Fant AND Drew Lock'?

    There's also a lot of enlightening salary cap points (so long as they know what they're talking about). They claim that Joe Flacco's contract restructure actually give Denver MORE reason to let him go next season than have to hang on to him. I had only heard otherwise before this vid. But I don't get deep into the cap stuff. Is it true
    Last edited by dizzolve; 12-14-2019, 08:55 PM.

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  • underrated29
    replied
    The big thing to remember is that Fant has had Flacco and Allen throwing to him. Not Matt Stafford or Meatball or Eli. That is a huge hurdle to overcome. The guy still needs to improve quite a bit but he has not shown any reason to doubt he will. He can be a game changer for us. he is already becoming one.

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  • BayArea Bronco
    replied
    Hes not soft.

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  • brianmcfarlane
    replied
    Originally posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    Fant is on pace to have slightly better stats than Kittle (5th round pick) had in his rookie season - 44 receptions vs 43 and 544yds vs 515yds receiving, 3tds vs 2tds... although Kittle did quite a bit better running the ball in his rookie season even though he did not run the ball. Fant has 3 runs for -12yds so far this season.

    So far this season for rookies, Fant's stats - receptions and yards - are better than all 1st round rookies full seasons since 2013 except for Evan Engram and David Njoku but Fant's projected stats would be better than Njoku too (Fant needs just 3 catches and 9yds to have a better season than Njoku) ... The only 1st round TE that had a better rookie season in stats is Evan Engram. There are more taken after the 1st round that maybe had a better rookie year (Hunter Henry, Gronk).
    Now Fant's blocking is not very good at this time but I don't think the Broncos drafted him for his blocking ability. I have seen Hockenson play some, not much, and his blocking hasn't been much better and he WAS supposed to be the complete TE, his stats are similar to Fant's but Fant does have the edge over the top 10 pick in the 2019 draft (8th).
    Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
    Kittle rookie season:
    43 rec - 515 yd - 2 TDs
    Yes, he is on pace to have a better rookie season than Kittle... and almost ALL rookies in the last 6-7 years.

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  • lvbronx
    replied
    Originally posted by samparnell View Post
    Good point. Wonder how many rooms fellow rookie Andrew Beck needs to be in?
    Yeah...Beck must be really busy.

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  • johnlimburg
    replied
    Originally posted by BayArea Bronco View Post
    Can someone post the play of Fants touchdown against the Browns for the people that claim Fant is soft.
    It was a good run, a strong run, no doubt. But I could put on 30 examples of Fant struggling to block in the run game which makes him look very "soft". Again though, not saying he is soft in every aspect, but aggressive jump balls are not his strong suit, nor is physical run blocking. That is fine, but doesn't mean I am saying he sucks, his game is just built differently, and he, like every single player and person in the world has other strengths which are very positive. For Fant, that is picking up yards after the catch, and making people great plays in the open field.

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  • samparnell
    replied
    Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
    Because many people make the wrong comparisons and compare Fant to experienced TEs. The comparisons should be to other rookie TE seasons. As stated before, TE is the hardest position for rookies to learn. They are in both the receivers room and the OL room, two totally different skill sets, and their heads are swimming and "softness" may be more a case of indecision than being "soft".

    Shannon Sharpe barely played as a rookie. Another Hall of Fame TE (and there aren't many of them) Tony Gonzales really struggled his first two years.

    Everything is relative, and in relation to other rookie TEs Fant is doing well. If he gets better or not, we don't know. But any judgement about his performance should be judged fairly.
    Good point. Wonder how many rooms fellow rookie Andrew Beck needs to be in?

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  • Broncos-R-Great
    replied
    As it turns out, Noah CAN play

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  • lvbronx
    replied
    Kittle rookie season:
    43 rec - 515 yd - 2 TDs

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  • BayArea Bronco
    replied
    Thanks! All he did was bulldoze the safety then break two more tackles on his way to the house! Thats not soft.

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  • brianmcfarlane
    replied
    Which one? The one against the Texans https://youtu.be/4LqO5hIpdms
    Or the one against the Browns? https://youtu.be/0B9RiTCjOpg

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  • BayArea Bronco
    replied
    Can someone post the play of Fants touchdown against the Browns for the people that claim Fant is soft.

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  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
    Yeah - it's funny how people want to box you into a corner when you lean to one side of the fence. It's not binary.

    I probably should have been more clear with the title of this thread. When I made this thread it was reported that "Noah Fant can't play" (practice) because he cut his foot. I think it was late in the week and I may have assumed he wouldn't be ready for Sunday but I don't recall.

    I should have titled it "Noah can't practice" Because that's all I was meaning to say in the title. Now in that OP I levied some critique on Fant and I stand by what I said. But I still have hope that he pans out. That play where he got the ball ripped out of his hands by a tiny DB still makes me cringe. That can NEVER happen again. On the other side of the coin, he's been a real weapon in some of our drives. And now with a fearless arm at QB -- the future could be very bright.

    I would caution fans not to expect the kind of physicality you see in Kittle or Gronk. It's just not in the cards. I just hope that if he's not going to be that impactful physically, that he can show up with finesse and cleverness and speed etc.

    He's been playing better and he's starting to look more comfortable. I'm encouraged
    The ball being ripped out had little to do with physicality. He had the ball away from his body and the CB got his hand in between the ball and Fant’s body, the CB had more control of the ball at that point. It was just sloppy technique that led to it. Either way it’s semantics.

    But that play has directly led his long TD against the Browns as everyone was ripping at the ball and the long play where Roby went after the ball last week. As long as he maintains 3 points of contacts or at least 2 when he or the defender is initiating contact he will be fine.

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  • lvbronx
    replied
    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Why does everything have to be so far to either extreme ? People rightfully ripped on his soft and poor performance throughout this season, that is fair, he had them. People have supported him after his big games where he was an impact player, he had those games too. It's his rookie year, there has been some good, some bad, about an equal amount in my opinion, and I think everyone has been right in critiquing him and supporting him. I don't understand being so far one way or the other in either camp, everyone has been right to make their judgements both ways based on the mixed bag of performances Fant has produced.
    Because many people make the wrong comparisons and compare Fant to experienced TEs. The comparisons should be to other rookie TE seasons. As stated before, TE is the hardest position for rookies to learn. They are in both the receivers room and the OL room, two totally different skill sets, and their heads are swimming and "softness" may be more a case of indecision than being "soft".

    Shannon Sharpe barely played as a rookie. Another Hall of Fame TE (and there aren't many of them) Tony Gonzales really struggled his first two years.

    Everything is relative, and in relation to other rookie TEs Fant is doing well. If he gets better or not, we don't know. But any judgement about his performance should be judged fairly.

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  • maaskesr
    replied
    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
    Why does everything have to be so far to either extreme ? People rightfully ripped on his soft and poor performance throughout this season, that is fair, he had them. People have supported him after his big games where he was an impact player, he had those games too. It's his rookie year, there has been some good, some bad, about an equal amount in my opinion, and I think everyone has been right in critiquing him and supporting him. I don't understand being so far one way or the other in either camp, everyone has been right to make their judgements both ways based on the mixed bag of performances Fant has produced.
    I think it's ok to be critical when he had some drops earlier, but to continue to act like he's still not a great value for where he went in the draft seems a little crazy. When was the last time a TE had this good of a rookie season, for any team, let alone with the QB failings we had this year?

    Every indication is it was a great pick. He struggled a bit early, and they kept trying to do the stupid jet sweep with him which always failed (but wasn't his fault) but he has done as much as one can to be called a "hit" so far. Obviously that can still change, as it can for any young player. But I just keep seeing "yeah, he had a pretty good game, but I still don't know. He drops too many balls."

    Edit: Maybe its just we've been burned on so many TE's in the last few years. Or that he's a first round pick. I just don't understand the continued pessimistic view towards him.
    Last edited by maaskesr; 12-11-2019, 01:12 PM.

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