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  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    I think you’re selling him short. He’s probably the best deep safety we’ve had in the last decade.
    A lot of players on the roster have been sold short when you read these threads. Meanwhile the Broncos are 16-30 since 2017.

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  • Al Wilson 4 Mayor
    replied
    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
    He would probably be in the top 10, maybe just outside, maybe just inside. He is in the top half of the league probably, but the safety talent across the entire league has been dwindling for years now. Obviously I would try to sign him, he is the one player Elway drafted over that 3 or 4 year period who will probably earn a second contract with the team, but me not thinking he is elite, doesn't mean I don't like him. As I said, I think he is good with room to grow, he took huge steps this season.
    I think you’re selling him short. He’s probably the best deep safety we’ve had in the last decade.

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  • johnlimburg
    replied
    Originally posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    I'm curious; how would you compare him to Adrian Amos? From what you wrote it sounds like you wouldn't consider Simmons a top 10 S? Would you not try and compete in the FA market to sign him?
    Even if its hard to consider him even top 10 all it takes is for one team to think he is and the Broncos will have to compete or lose him in FA.
    He would probably be in the top 10, maybe just outside, maybe just inside. He is in the top half of the league probably, but the safety talent across the entire league has been dwindling for years now. Obviously I would try to sign him, he is the one player Elway drafted over that 3 or 4 year period who will probably earn a second contract with the team, but me not thinking he is elite, doesn't mean I don't like him. As I said, I think he is good with room to grow, he took huge steps this season.

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  • brianmcfarlane
    replied
    Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
    No, he is not worth that large price tag that comes along with the franchise tag designation. Simmons has had a great year, by far the best of his career and improved leaps and bounds from the bad 2018 he had. In saying that though, he isn't elite, I wouldn't even call him great. Simmons is a good safety who is becoming a reliable starter with potential to grow. But he is not one of the best safeties in the league, he just isn't that impact player who you give that franchise money too.
    I'm curious; how would you compare him to Adrian Amos? From what you wrote it sounds like you wouldn't consider Simmons a top 10 S? Would you not try and compete in the FA market to sign him?
    Even if its hard to consider him even top 10 all it takes is for one team to think he is and the Broncos will have to compete or lose him in FA.

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  • brianmcfarlane
    replied
    Originally posted by ABQBronco25 View Post
    Since the Pro Bowl is mostly a popularity contest for the fan and player portions of the voting, there's still a chance he could be selected to one of the All-Pro teams, which is more prestigious IMO. That would give him some additional leverage in contract negotiations, but even so, he's earned a big deal with his spectacular play on the field. I'd rather see a long term deal worked out since the franchise tag can cause some resentment among players who get slapped with it.
    Good point about the ALL-Pro team, I agree that it is more "prestigious" ... I hope he doesn't get selected, selfishly. I also would rather he not get tagged.

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  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Here’s a good read about PFF grading:

    https://elitesportsny.com/2016/06/07/60083/

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  • johnlimburg
    replied
    Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
    PFF has Simmons ranked as the #2 overall safety in football this year.
    The overall grading systems from Pro Football Focus are not at all backed up by player movement and transactions in the NFL, and haven't been for years. Pro Football Focus produces some good statistics that when looked at in isolation are good reference points. But, their overall gratings need to be consistently questioned when you have teams making cuts mid-season for guys rated as their "#1 overall player" and such. Renaldo Hill our current defensive backs coach was also considered a top 5 safety when he was here before being released.

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  • Houshmazode
    replied
    PFF has Simmons ranked as the #2 overall safety in football this year.

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  • johnlimburg
    replied
    No, he is not worth that large price tag that comes along with the franchise tag designation. Simmons has had a great year, by far the best of his career and improved leaps and bounds from the bad 2018 he had. In saying that though, he isn't elite, I wouldn't even call him great. Simmons is a good safety who is becoming a reliable starter with potential to grow. But he is not one of the best safeties in the league, he just isn't that impact player who you give that franchise money too.

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  • DenverJay
    replied
    Meh, the Pro Bowl has become meaningless, irrelevant. They need to just cut the crap, get it over with and make it a flag football game. I haven't watched a pro bowl in at least the last decade, that's how bad it has become. It's not even a showcase of the best players in the league since the best teams hold out their players who are playing in the Super Bowl a week later. Some may still tout that they're a "Pro Bowl" this or that, but to me, that's not saying much.

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  • ABQBronco25
    replied
    Originally posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
    The Broncos should be able to sign Simmons without using the franchise tag. I like to toss around what a player might cost...

    Sorry, I am glad he did not get selected to the pro bowl, that should make it relatively easier to sign him long term. If he made the pro bowl he would of been able to use that for a bigger contract. If I were the one making the decision, I would only use the tag if I thought a deal could get done but maybe not in time to keep him from FA.
    Ultimately I hope he is still a Bronco next season and I don't really care what the Broncos pay him.
    :2cents:
    Since the Pro Bowl is mostly a popularity contest for the fan and player portions of the voting, there's still a chance he could be selected to one of the All-Pro teams, which is more prestigious IMO. That would give him some additional leverage in contract negotiations, but even so, he's earned a big deal with his spectacular play on the field. I'd rather see a long term deal worked out since the franchise tag can cause some resentment among players who get slapped with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • brianmcfarlane
    replied
    The Broncos should be able to sign Simmons without using the franchise tag. I like to toss around what a player might cost...

    Franchise tag for a S last season was 11.15M; it is difficult to calculate what the average is of the top 5 "salaries" for 2020 at this time because it is hard determine what is considered a players salary for a specific year when there are many parts to a contract. If I went with "base salary" the franchise tag # would be 10.727M but that is lower than last season so that can't be accurate.
    So it is probably safe to say the the tag will be ~11.5M? The highest average salary at S is Kevin Byard at 14.1M/yr. 5th is Reshad Jones at 12M/yr. ... Adrian Amos is 10th at 9M/yr.
    I'm not sure Simmons is a top 5 S? I think he is probably in the top 10? Is he better than Amos? Statistically Simmons is better this season; 4INT vs 2INT, 14 passes defensed vs 8PD ... close on tackles. PFR's AV is 15 for Amos in his first 3 seasons, Simmons' AV is 14. The median between 5th highest paid and 10th highest paid is 10.5M + new season, salaries go up a little, lets say 20% that = .3M ... so my calculations would be 10.8M average over a 5 years = 54M ... structure; 27M, GTD (50% of contract) 15M signing bonus; 1st year cap # could be 3M salary, 3M from bonus = 6M cap # in 2020, 7M salary + 3M bonus = 10M in 2021, last 3 years would be 9.67M salary + 3M bonus = 12.67M per year cap hits. He would be 31 years old in the last year of the contract.

    Sorry, I am glad he did not get selected to the pro bowl, that should make it relatively easier to sign him long term. If he made the pro bowl he would of been able to use that for a bigger contract. If I were the one making the decision, I would only use the tag if I thought a deal could get done but maybe not in time to keep him from FA.
    Ultimately I hope he is still a Bronco next season and I don't really care what the Broncos pay him.
    :2cents:
    Last edited by brianmcfarlane; 12-18-2019, 11:08 AM.

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  • DenverJay
    replied
    Simmons was the ONLY reason the Chiefs didn't put up 60 against the Broncos last Sunday.

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  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by mozzerpete View Post
    Here's an honest question:

    Is Simmons as "great" as we make him out to be?

    I think he's one of our raising stars, but then I see him and Harris Jr. get beat deep for a TD, and think, "Whose fault was that?"

    He doesn't strike me as an Atwater, Lynch, or Smith type of a safety, but yet he's efficient most of the time.

    Flame away, lol.

    The Broncos will probably re-sign him but I hope he gives the Broncos a discount because we need cap for other areas.
    Good question. Simmons had a nice season and I think it’s fair to say he’s been a bright spot for the most part. I tend to lean more toward good, not great. On some of the plays when Chris Harris Jr has been burned, it seems Simmons played a role - it’s a bad combination in some situations. I think the Broncos should make him a strong offer however not the highest paid.

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  • mozzerpete
    replied
    Here's an honest question:

    Is Simmons as "great" as we make him out to be?

    I think he's one of our raising stars, but then I see him and Harris Jr. get beat deep for a TD, and think, "Whose fault was that?"

    He doesn't strike me as an Atwater, Lynch, or Smith type of a safety, but yet he's efficient most of the time.

    Flame away, lol.

    The Broncos will probably re-sign him but I hope he gives the Broncos a discount because we need cap for other areas.

    Leave a comment:

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