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  • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
    If it was possible to do in depth psychological studies of police who have habitually committed acts of brutality, then some type of screening might be developed to eliminate candidates for police academy based on that. This approach would require dealing with the issue of racism. Is it psychological or something else? I have heard of surveys that can be used to determine if an individual holds racist views, or is racist. If racism would not be included in psychological screening for prospective police officers, then additional screening for racism could be a possibility. It is all involved in the question of what kind of individuals does society want to entrust with law enforcement and community safety? I doubt if many would think that police work is an appropriate occupation for a racist in a diverse society.

    Without some kind of preemptive screening process, it is still possible to constructively address police brutality and excessive force by replacing certain attitudes with best practices of how best to deal with situations in order to deescalate them. Starting at least ten years ago the Albuquerque Police Department was involved in many instances of police brutality including use of deadly force. The City of Albuquerque had to pay millions in damages for a number of fatal police shootings. There were about thirty of those from 2010 through 2014. ABQ is diverse and racism didn't seem to be an issue as the police brutality was being inflicted on pretty much every group.

    There was much push back from a number of community groups including the previously mentioned lawsuits. The US DOJ got involved by 2013 and investigated APD. One of their findings was that APD had a culture which accepted the use of excessive force. DOJ found that was often not justified and caused much harm in the community. A settlement including a consent decree was entered under which APD was required to enact many reforms in eight different categories under DOJ guidelines which is still going on.

    In spite of the initiation of these efforts, there was another shocking police shooting in 2015 captured in part by lapel cam video that resulted in another fatality, police officers charged with second degree murder and a wrongful death suit settled for $5 million. The officers' trial ended with a hung jury. Since then, it seems that progress has been made to change the culture of excessive force in APD. One measure that can be used to monitor police involved situations is to require all officers to wear lapel cams and keep them active in order to corroborate their reports. Some police officers and agencies resist the requirement of lapel cams.

    There is much that needs to be done to cultivate a civil police force that is not a threat to the health and safety of the public. What causes police brutality needs to be identified and eliminated. Cities, counties and states are in various levels of realization, and are at different stages of reform efforts. National guidelines may be forthcoming. Even so, incidents continue. A Las Cruces police officer was recently charged in the choking death of a suspect resisting arrest which was captured by lapel cam.
    This is a good post with a lot of depth.

    You mentioned that police brutality was committed on every group in Albuquerque. When I was a teenager in San Diego my friends and I made decisions that put us on the other end of the law. I can tell you the police down there would beat a white kid just as much as beating a Latino kid because I saw it happen.

    I also got to know a few people before they joined law enforcement. Two of them would not use excessive force when conditions were ideal but I could see these two using excessive force if things got heated.

    There are things that could be done to help law enforcement. I think some people just should not be allowed to carry a gun and patrol society. Others can do it most of the time but maybe a rotation to parking enforcement or seat belt enforcement would be good for the mental health. I am just brainstorming.

    No matter what we do to change things we are talking about the behavioral pattern of people and that is going to be hard to change in law enforcement...it will take time.
    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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    • Just remember the media is hyping this up . I'm not saying theres no LEO acting unlawful, I'm saying it's a small percentage. There are knee jerk reactions from people in times like this .

      Take Lego for instance. They're taking all the police officer logo men off the shelves . Why ? Because of a situation that is in the process of justice as we speak . Are they taking the Dr. Lego off the shelf ? How many times have we heard Dr sexually abuses patient . It's happened and possibly will happen again. Doesnt mean that all Drs are creeps .

      Kids look up to officers , they want to be cops when they grow up . We need officers out there. Taking toys off the shelf and trying to peg LEO as bad isnt healthy and is counterproductive. If people think training for officers needs to be updated and added , defunding isn't the answer . Holding officers more accountable is the way .

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      • Lego is protesting. People want to be heard. I respect your opinion, but there is clearly a problem here. It's not a few bad apples. And I'm even trying to blame any of them in particular. As I pointed out earlier, they were trained that way. And human nature itself fuels the behavior that is the problem here. So without blame, we need reform at minimum.

        As for Minneapolis, I love they have the balls to do what they're doing. But if I'm going to be honest, I'm glad my community isn't so desperate to roll the dice on such a drastic experiment. But I am pulling for them 100%. They're going to make mistakes and take a beating from the other side. I can't see it ending up too much different to LE we know today, but at least they get to reshape it from the beginning. The rich long storied and emotional culture of being LEO's might be harder to reform than it would be to start from scratch. The Police have a lot of power locally.

        Looking up to cops is secondary to saving lives. As bad as it seems right now, it STILL might end up not changing much at all ..........so buckle your seat belt. People are tired of being beat down.

        And with the technology of today .....what Edward Snowden informed us all of ........ the pendulum has swung way too far to the controlling LE. And I'm not even talking about Federal LE. The United States is unique because we can protest without getting beat down .......it's in the constitution and we're still getting beat down. Don't tell me this is knee jerk. Forefathers died for these rights
        Red 98

        Kareem rises to the top

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        • Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
          I believe the more powerful discrimination is socioeconomic. But even then there is a deep psychological tendency that happens when someone is give power over another. Remember the Stanford Phillip Zimbardo Prison Study back in the early 70's?

          This has more to do with human nature than it does 'a few bad apples'. The entire foundation of the system needs reform. Intensive psychological training needs to be implemented. I was shocked to see what kind of training police see nowadays. Look at this ...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf7NJOMS6Y

          Hiring standards must change. ......And who's to say people with non-violent records should be ineligible?

          Bad Apples are in everything and always will be. It's relative. The real problems lie deep in the culture of Law Enforcement. It's not easy to change. That's why -it seems to me- Minneapolis is going to start from scratch. It's likely easier to institute change than, reforming existing strong rooted culture........ and power.

          We are all human. Police are human. No one is perfect. We're all victims and beneficiaries of our environments
          Great, eye opening video.

          This MUST stop. It MUST stop before we as a society reach the point of no return.
          sigpic

          Hooray, beer!

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          • Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
            This has more to do with human nature than it does 'a few bad apples'. The entire foundation of the system needs reform. Intensive psychological training needs to be implemented. I was shocked to see what kind of training police see nowadays. Look at this ...

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETf7NJOMS6Y
            It is indeed disgusting to see a shooting like this video, but the build up is quite staged. The clips from the training seems wildly inapppropriate, but we also have to realise that this might be 5 minutes taken out of contents in a full day program.

            This youtube video wants to tell a one sided story. While the video of the shooting seems like it is an extreme overreaction, we do not know what the cop saw, and it is absolutely clear that he reacts with a fear for his life, whether it threatend or not. He was shoot because he was carying a gun and did something to spook the police officer. Some here have hinted that this had a racial angle, it was evident that the officer reacted in panic.

            It boils down to - if this is indeed representative of the base of police training then the system is sick, but it is very unlikely that this video was a fair representation. There is no doubt that a US police officer must be conditioned to handle potential deadly force given the prevalence of firearms, but I would be chocked if this focus is more than a few percent of the training.

            If the police officer was not scared then this man would have been alive. Why did theshooting officer get so scared?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post
              Just remember the media is hyping this up . I'm not saying theres no LEO acting unlawful, I'm saying it's a small percentage. There are knee jerk reactions from people in times like this .

              Take Lego for instance. They're taking all the police officer logo men off the shelves . Why ? Because of a situation that is in the process of justice as we speak . Are they taking the Dr. Lego off the shelf ? How many times have we heard Dr sexually abuses patient . It's happened and possibly will happen again. Doesnt mean that all Drs are creeps .

              Kids look up to officers , they want to be cops when they grow up . We need officers out there. Taking toys off the shelf and trying to peg LEO as bad isnt healthy and is counterproductive. If people think training for officers needs to be updated and added , defunding isn't the answer . Holding officers more accountable is the way .
              Exactly right - at the core it requires a proper identification of the problem so the core issues can be identified, analysed and dealt with. There is no doubt that US police officers are at much higher risk of getting killed than Police Officers in other countries and that affects both recruitement and the work environment.

              Comment


              • Funny you have to turn to the Daily Show to get a balanced view with a sane twist

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post
                  It is indeed disgusting to see a shooting like this video, but the build up is quite staged. The clips from the training seems wildly inapppropriate, but we also have to realise that this might be 5 minutes taken out of contents in a full day program.

                  This youtube video wants to tell a one sided story. While the video of the shooting seems like it is an extreme overreaction, we do not know what the cop saw, and it is absolutely clear that he reacts with a fear for his life, whether it threatend or not. He was shoot because he was carying a gun and did something to spook the police officer. Some here have hinted that this had a racial angle, it was evident that the officer reacted in panic.

                  It boils down to - if this is indeed representative of the base of police training then the system is sick, but it is very unlikely that this video was a fair representation. There is no doubt that a US police officer must be conditioned to handle potential deadly force given the prevalence of firearms, but I would be chocked if this focus is more than a few percent of the training.

                  If the police officer was not scared then this man would have been alive. Why did theshooting officer get so scared?
                  I never hinted that shooting was race motivated, in fact my posts here claim a completely different catalyst generally. I'm not discounting the existence of racism either. Yes the video was slanted to make a point. But if you just watch the police seminar part all by itself......... it's still shocking. He basically makes it sound like if you kill a man, you're now level up! Now you're Predator! ........ only a killer can hunt a killer! And the quote -- if you have trouble pulling the trigger you need to find another job. That's miles too far..........miles and miles.

                  400 white people 300 black people 150 hispanics and 150 other die each year to police shootings. 50 police die each year to felonious related shootings. There is a problem
                  Last edited by dizzolve; 06-10-2020, 02:41 PM.
                  Red 98

                  Kareem rises to the top

                  Comment


                  • By him letting him know he had a gun in the car he showed that he had no intent to harm the officer. If he wanted to shoot him he wouldn’t have told him at all. And quite frankly they wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) have searched his car for his lights being out so he had no reason to tell him in the first place.

                    The why he was scared is important. Just having a gun isn’t enough, you know the risk when you sign on. Once he let him know he had a gun the officer should have asked them to step out of the vehicle with their hands visible so they could locate it and remove any possibility of them reaching it. That would be the logical process even if you’re scared. But by allowing him to remain in the vehicle he’s showing that he isn’t scared of him going for the gun, so why the sudden panic? Even if the guy was able to get his gun, he wasn’t in a position to win any type of shootout with a trained officer right at his window. I don’t think the cop was scared for his life in this situation, I think he was scared for his career because he knew he messed up and scared because he knew he just killed a man with very little justification to back it up, scared because he knew there was a much better safer way to handle it. And he only shot the guy, throughout all of that, what if the woman had it on her and shot back? She would’ve had a better chance than the guy but he wasn’t scared of her. So no I don’t think a gun being in the car is why he sounded scared in the video nor do I think he feared for his life.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
                      400 white people 300 black people 150 hispanics and 150 other die each year to police shootings. 50 police die each year to felonious related shootings. There is a problem
                      Yeah it's called people dont value life and each other. The Golden rule is minuscule these days .

                      Comment


                      • It seems more and more video is being presented of other injustices. I suspect this will go on for a while, and I would not be surprised if others are disciplined for what they apparently got off on previously.

                        Again, the power of video, and the power of people, when they as a group demand change and accountability.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                          It seems more and more video is being presented of other injustices. I suspect this will go on for a while, and I would not be surprised if others are disciplined for what they apparently got off on previously.

                          Again, the power of video, and the power of people, when they as a group demand change and accountability.
                          I’m likely to regret asking this but do you also advocate the use of video in cases other the against the police?

                          To be clear, I am not suggesting that police should not be held accountable for their actions. Just that others should be also

                          There is video evidence of assaults against police and other protesters. There is video evidence of looters and outright organized thefts during the protests. Will they be charged and prosecuted too? The evidence is available.

                          How about the power of video being used by “the people” to document crimes and help solve them? To provide video of the drug deals on the corner, the assaults, intimidation and violence that some neighborhoods are subjected to every single day.

                          Document that. Give it to the authorities. Demand prosecutors file and help the communities feel safe. Perhaps equally from the police and criminals by to many. Reform is needed on multiple levels to truly have change and accountability.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                            I’m likely to regret asking this but do you also advocate the use of video in cases other the against the police?

                            To be clear, I am not suggesting that police should not be held accountable for their actions. Just that others should be also

                            There is video evidence of assaults against police and other protesters. There is video evidence of looters and outright organized thefts during the protests. Will they be charged and prosecuted too? The evidence is available.

                            How about the power of video being used by “the people” to document crimes and help solve them? To provide video of the drug deals on the corner, the assaults, intimidation and violence that some neighborhoods are subjected to every single day.

                            Document that. Give it to the authorities. Demand prosecutors file and help the communities feel safe. Perhaps equally from the police and criminals by to many. Reform is needed on multiple levels to truly have change and accountability.
                            Why do you regret asking?

                            Regardless....we live in a world where video is used every day to do positive and sometimes negative things. It does help illuminate situations where it helps to determine accuracy of information, or in some cases, where there is no witnessing of the event. Any info source is better than nothing, even if it does not provide the complete story.

                            My general answer to you is this, I would use video evidence for almost any scenario, but utilize it in conjunction with all other info I can acquire. It may be 100% explanatory in its own right, or just one small piece of evidence that is incomplete by itself, supportive at best.

                            One aspect of videos I do not like is when someone gets caught doing something very minor, or accidentally does something wrong, and the video pretty much goes viral....which can be unfairly used against that individual. I do not believe that a video of that nature deserves full spread public access. It could be a life changing outcome for a simple mistake/accident. We all make little mistakes, and we should not be held accountable in the eyes of the world, when we get caught in that type of light.
                            Last edited by CanDB; 06-10-2020, 11:24 AM.

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                            • One issue to remember is some videos of unnecessary or excessive force are obvious. Some aren't quite that clear however. Officers are supposed to obey the UOF policies . Sometimes the actions may seem bad or not easy to take by public but the officer could be within his/her depts policy .

                              I agree about taking all the info and investigating because we may only see a snippet of the video.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by orange crush75 View Post
                                One issue to remember is some videos of unnecessary or excessive force are obvious. Some aren't quite that clear however. Officers are supposed to obey the UOF policies . Sometimes the actions may seem bad or not easy to take by public but the officer could be within his/her depts policy .

                                I agree about taking all the info and investigating because we may only see a snippet of the video.
                                I understand. A police officer may not seem fair in a small video, but we need to know more than what appears obvious. I do not expect police to be gentle with someone who is aggressive or acting suspiciously. And what appears strong armed by some, may be perfectly acceptable, by any police department.

                                I respect the law, and the risk that comes with the job. And I do not expect police to take chances that endanger them or their colleagues. People who do not comply, or even become aggressive. need to be handled with whatever level of force is necessary, within the guidelines of police practices.

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