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  • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    Why do you regret asking?

    Regardless....we live in a world where video is used every day to do positive and sometimes negative things. It does help illuminate situations where it helps to determine accuracy of information, or in some cases, where there is no witnessing of the event. Any info source is better than nothing, even if it does not provide the complete story.

    My general answer to you is this, I would use video evidence for almost any scenario, but utilize it in conjunction with all other info I can acquire. It may be 100% explanatory in its own right, or just one small piece of evidence that is incomplete by itself, supportive at best.

    One aspect of videos I do not like is when someone gets caught doing something very minor, or accidentally does something wrong, and the video pretty much goes viral....which can be unfairly used against that individual. I do not believe that a video of that nature deserves full spread public access. It could be a life changing outcome for a simple mistake/accident. We all make little mistakes, and we should not be held accountable in the eyes of the world, when we get caught in that type of light.
    Appreciate your response. Unfortunately what is considered “minor” can be different from one person to the next. Each with his own bias or context. That is where the problem lies IMO.

    One may find it acceptable or even funny if a crowd throws water, milkshake or for some even urine on a policeman doing his job. Others offended and looking for accountability.

    When I see those type of videos being downplayed and re-tweeted I often wonder how that same person who “ liked” the video would respond if someone threw the same liquid on them at work, in the office, on the red carpet, at a podium or register.

    Another example just came mind. Context and the power of a viral video come to mind. Think of the video of the elderly man that was injured when pushed by police. Truly an ugly video.

    But depending on context was it police brutality or an unfortunate outcome of a chaotic situation? Should the policeman really be charged?

    First off, I’m not suggesting that I believe the idiotic conspiracy theory suggested by Trump. I am saying look at the video.

    The cop pushes him. He does stumble and fall backward awkwardly. The policeman immediately responds with what I perceive as regret. Supervisor tells him to hold his line and radios for medical attention.

    Look at the context of the situation. Video showed the vast majority of the protesters were a half block away. Only a couple within 50 feet or so when the camera angle widens. Why was the man engaging the police at that time? Before a police line makes a sweep it is announced multiple times. Majority of the protesters got the message, why did he defy it?

    Once that line has begun moving the time for discussion was over. As for the “shove”. IMO it is as not out of line or excessive or intended for the result that followed. The elderly man awkwardly lost his balance and fell hard.

    I realize I am in the minority that will take this viewpoint. Most are looking for their pound of flesh for any law enforcement at the moment. I am starting with my own bias that police have an impossible job during the best of times. During protests/riots that stress is off the charts.

    There is abuse of power and excessive brutality to consider . Reform and accountability is needed. What that eventually looks like will be interesting to see. The worldwide outpouring of collective emotion is long overdue and inspiring to see.

    We just need to be careful the emotions created by biased viral videos are not the guiding discussions and reactions. Just as we don’t want to judge the overwhelmingly number of peaceful protests by the isolated looting and rioting.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
      Appreciate your response. Unfortunately what is considered “minor” can be different from one person to the next. Each with his own bias or context. That is where the problem lies IMO.

      One may find it acceptable or even funny if a crowd throws water, milkshake or for some even urine on a policeman doing his job. Others offended and looking for accountability.

      When I see those type of videos being downplayed and re-tweeted I often wonder how that same person who “ liked” the video would respond if someone threw the same liquid on them at work, in the office, on the red carpet, at a podium or register.

      Another example just came mind. Context and the power of a viral video come to mind. Think of the video of the elderly man that was injured when pushed by police. Truly an ugly video.

      But depending on context was it police brutality or an unfortunate outcome of a chaotic situation? Should the policeman really be charged?

      First off, I’m not suggesting that I believe the idiotic conspiracy theory suggested by Trump. I am saying look at the video.

      The cop pushes him. He does stumble and fall backward awkwardly. The policeman immediately responds with what I perceive as regret. Supervisor tells him to hold his line and radios for medical attention.

      Look at the context of the situation. Video showed the vast majority of the protesters were a half block away. Only a couple within 50 feet or so when the camera angle widens. Why was the man engaging the police at that time? Before a police line makes a sweep it is announced multiple times. Majority of the protesters got the message, why did he defy it?

      Once that line has begun moving the time for discussion was over. As for the “shove”. IMO it is as not out of line or excessive or intended for the result that followed. The elderly man awkwardly lost his balance and fell hard.

      I realize I am in the minority that will take this viewpoint. Most are looking for their pound of flesh for any law enforcement at the moment. I am starting with my own bias that police have an impossible job during the best of times. During protests/riots that stress is off the charts.

      There is abuse of power and excessive brutality to consider . Reform and accountability is needed. What that eventually looks like will be interesting to see. The worldwide outpouring of collective emotion is long overdue and inspiring to see.

      We just need to be careful the emotions created by biased viral videos are not the guiding discussions and reactions. Just as we don’t want to judge the overwhelmingly number of peaceful protests by the isolated looting and rioting.
      In the case of the elderly gentleman. Here were my initial thoughts. He was not pushed with a lot of force, and yes, he did stumble, but I think one's age and actions need to be considered before using force. I would not shove an elderly person unless they proved they could give it and take it (though that is not easy to explain in this short comment). But even so, where this went from bad to worse for me, was that they just walked past him, bleeding. Yes, they may have called for help, but surely someone could have stayed nearby, instead of walking past him like an object. It came across as little compassion, and had he landed harder on the concrete, who knows what could have happened.

      As for conspiracy...….
      Last edited by CanDB; 06-10-2020, 02:40 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
        Appreciate your response. Unfortunately what is considered “minor” can be different from one person to the next. Each with his own bias or context. That is where the problem lies IMO.

        One may find it acceptable or even funny if a crowd throws water, milkshake or for some even urine on a policeman doing his job. Others offended and looking for accountability.

        When I see those type of videos being downplayed and re-tweeted I often wonder how that same person who “ liked” the video would respond if someone threw the same liquid on them at work, in the office, on the red carpet, at a podium or register.

        Another example just came mind. Context and the power of a viral video come to mind. Think of the video of the elderly man that was injured when pushed by police. Truly an ugly video.

        But depending on context was it police brutality or an unfortunate outcome of a chaotic situation? Should the policeman really be charged?

        First off, I’m not suggesting that I believe the idiotic conspiracy theory suggested by Trump. I am saying look at the video.

        The cop pushes him. He does stumble and fall backward awkwardly. The policeman immediately responds with what I perceive as regret. Supervisor tells him to hold his line and radios for medical attention.

        Look at the context of the situation. Video showed the vast majority of the protesters were a half block away. Only a couple within 50 feet or so when the camera angle widens. Why was the man engaging the police at that time? Before a police line makes a sweep it is announced multiple times. Majority of the protesters got the message, why did he defy it?

        Once that line has begun moving the time for discussion was over. As for the “shove”. IMO it is as not out of line or excessive or intended for the result that followed. The elderly man awkwardly lost his balance and fell hard.

        I realize I am in the minority that will take this viewpoint. Most are looking for their pound of flesh for any law enforcement at the moment. I am starting with my own bias that police have an impossible job during the best of times. During protests/riots that stress is off the charts.

        There is abuse of power and excessive brutality to consider . Reform and accountability is needed. What that eventually looks like will be interesting to see. The worldwide outpouring of collective emotion is long overdue and inspiring to see.

        We just need to be careful the emotions created by biased viral videos are not the guiding discussions and reactions. Just as we don’t want to judge the overwhelmingly number of peaceful protests by the isolated looting and rioting.
        Originally posted by CanDB View Post
        In the case of the elderly gentleman. Here were my initial thoughts. He was not pushed with a lot of force, and yes, he did stumble, but I think one's age and actions need to be considered before using force. I would not shove an elderly person unless they proved they could give it and take it (though that is not easy to explain in this short comment). But even so, where this went from bad to worse for me, was that they just walked past him, bleeding. Yes, they may have called for help, but surely someone could have stayed nearby, instead of walking past him like an object. It came across as little compassion, and had he landed harder on the concrete, who knows what could have happened.

        As for conspiracy...….
        I agree that the intent of the officer was to push the guy out of the way and not push him down. It was negligent and not intentional. This is different than swinging a baton or shooting rubber bullets.

        I also wonder why someone couldn't just take a minute and talk to the guy? He obviously wasn't a threat and may even had some helpful info for them.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by lvbronx View Post
          I agree that the intent of the officer was to push the guy out of the way and not push him down. It was negligent and not intentional. This is different than swinging a baton or shooting rubber bullets.

          I also wonder why someone couldn't just take a minute and talk to the guy? He obviously wasn't a threat and may even had some helpful info for them.
          I agree the cop didn't intend to put that guy on the ground .........but it goes to show how violent these guys are ........out of the gates. Used to be we looked up to cops because they were willing to put their safety on the line for the sake of the community. BUT now it's they're not willing to put their safety on the line, they do anything to go home safely. That's not what the job is. I know it sounds insensitive to say but that's why it was a honorable pursuit. To protect and to serve.

          Looked like he was bringing the cops one of their swat helmets. That's all he was doing. Trying to hand the helmet to one of em.
          Red 98

          Kareem rises to the top

          Comment


          • I recommend Beau of the Fifth Column on FB as a someone to follow as these events unfold. Has been a valuable resource and it primarily spot on. A lot of the discussion on here is very similar. Thanks for keeping this a clean thread. Been a great read today.
            2016 GM for the Buffalo Bills.

            Comment


            • Watch this slow motion video of the old guy trying to scan police phones.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BroncoBreeder View Post
                Watch this slow motion video of the old guy trying to scan police phones.

                In an interview with a friend of his, the person said he had little understanding of technology.

                And additional to, if he was scanning or whatever, why has that not been mentioned as a factor? Maybe that will come in time.
                Last edited by CanDB; 06-10-2020, 04:41 PM.

                Comment


                • Funny, I totally missed the details of that act in the couple times I previously watched it. I was focused on the push and the aftermath. Now his isolation from the other protesters and engaging the officers line may make a bit more sense. He obviously is doing "something" intentionally. He is waving his phone near the cops radio and electronics and following policeman notices and responds.

                  Does it matter if he "does not understand technology", After watching that I wonder how much it was a "send the old guy tactic". Kind of like how a drug dealer will have the 10 year old hold the drugs so the adult can't get arrested. Have to wonder just how much of that will matter to those that already believe the police "are just violent out of the gates". Or those that demanded and were rewarded with the two officers suspened and charged. Doubt it changes any of their opinions.

                  It will be interesting if some of the protesters tactics will every be acknowledged by main stream media? They are more savvy then most will give credit.

                  It reminds me of a photo that made the rounds on the first couple days of the protests. Picture was of a young "hippie" looking girl holding out a white flower towards a police line and within inches of one policewoman specifically. The policewoman's body was rigid and her face was reflecting some serious anger. The tag line was somrthing like "Peaceful protester met with police hatred". With all the expected comments of course. A couple days later I saw an interview with the policewoman. Apparently the "innocent" girl was saying some vile things about cops and the Latina policewoman specifically. Trying to goad her into an action for the cameras recording her smiling and reaching out with a flower. Policewoman stated she was furious and knew she could not respond.

                  Take it for what is worth. Because I have no clue how to find that article to post here

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                    In an interview with a friend of his, the person said he had little understanding of technology.

                    And additional to, if he was scanning or whatever, why has that not been mentioned as a factor? Maybe that will come in time.
                    The first statement from police was not that he was scanning phones. They said he tripped.

                    It is obvious to me this alt fact theory involving scanning phones is just spin to make the story look different.
                    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                      The first statement from police was not that he was scanning phones. They said he tripped.

                      It is obvious to me this alt fact theory involving scanning phones is just spin to make the story look different.
                      Interesting. Just to play Devils Advocate, couldn't both be true? He was scanning phones and he tripped after being pushed off balance ?

                      Or maybe you can explain what he is doing? I can't after seeng it. His actions were not brief or random.

                      And you are correct, if true it does make the story look different. Same as the spin of his friend telling us he "has little understanding of technology".

                      And lets be honest. Much of this is not either/or scenarios. Sometimes multiple things can be true. Look at contradictory statements concerning protaganists that turned the peaceful protests into riots. How many arguments have we seen proclaiming it was the radical left! It was the radical white supremists! It was organized crime !

                      Maybe it is all the above, chaos creates opportunity.
                      Last edited by FR Tim; 06-10-2020, 05:42 PM.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                        The first statement from police was not that he was scanning phones. They said he tripped.

                        It is obvious to me this alt fact theory involving scanning phones is just spin to make the story look different.
                        I mean he’d have to have a pretty ridiculous phone to be able to interfere with police frequencies. The next part of the conspiracy is going to be that he’s from the future

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                          I mean he’d have to have a pretty ridiculous phone to be able to interfere with police frequencies. The next part of the conspiracy is going to be that he’s from the future
                          Yah....just like I am sure my dear ole little Ma (bless her) was a double agent, living under our very modest house in the middle of The Great White North. Hey, it could be true.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                            The first statement from police was not that he was scanning phones. They said he tripped.

                            It is obvious to me this alt fact theory involving scanning phones is just spin to make the story look different.
                            Which is a possibility.

                            but that doesnt answer the question as to why he was doing whatever he was doing, instead of obeying the police instructions to clear the streat?
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • Bottom line, an elderly man was pushed to the concrete, left bleeding, and no one stopped to help. Call it what you want, but it could have been handled better.

                              In the video I do not see the police taking his phone from him (even on the ground), which tells me that they did not believe he was doing something suspicious.
                              Last edited by CanDB; 06-10-2020, 06:56 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Any thoughts on what he was doing then? I've watched it a half dozen times now and still can't figure it out. Certainly looks intentional.

                                Also you might want to find the full video. After he fell there was a medic called up immediately and arrived within about 15 secs. to "stop and help" the rest were continuing on with their assigned job of holding the line and clearing the street. Something every other protester seemed to have heard and understood.

                                I'll check back in to see if anyone can explain his odd movements. But I'm going back to talking football for now. With the braod scope of issues currently happening, getting stcuk on this one "we will have to agree to disagree on what we see" moment. Best to all. Be safe.

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