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  • Rastic
    replied
    Gang, this thread has moved on from the initial discussion deeper in to topics suited to PnR and is closed.

    Thanks again to everyone who kept it civil in spite of such emotional issues.

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  • EddieMac
    replied
    Closed for a cleanup...

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  • FR Tim
    replied
    Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
    He never had a lethal weapon in his hand. The cops couldn't chase him down ehh? See that's where we split I guess. Instead of running a little and tackling the tired nearly passed out drunk guy .........they could just shoot him dead and not break a sweat

    That's how training needs to change. Lethal force was not necc no matter how you look at it.

    Then again you know what ... I haven't seen all the angles yet. I only saw 1. Maybe I should take a closer look at this before I argue you're wrong. Hard to watch this stuff though.

    On one hand, ... police never show up -- no one dies there that night. He wasn't robbing a store or kidnapping someone .........He was just a drunk who passed out in his car. Not a good thing ... but not worth killing over either. And a well trained cop might treat a passed out drunk with a different demeanor than, a need to kill. He shot him in the back 3 times. The back

    You just figure you send cops in there to keep the peace. Make sure no one gets hurt and get that guy out of the line or whatever............ but no they actually brought the killing with them
    I find it fascinating how many Monday morning QBs have the answers on how to deal with situations when using hindsight from the comfort of their homes instead of the heat of the moment in the streets.

    Saw that a Brooks family lawyer suggested the police should have "just let him walk home" . If only the police had the luxury to make that call. They let him go and anything happens to him suddenly the headlines read "police allow drunk man to walk into traffic" Or if they choose to tackle him and he breaks a bone or cracks his skull the headlines read "police brutality" Or they choose to just let him run away and he then uses the Taser in a crime . Headline read" police allow Taser to be used in rape, robbery, etc".

    The police do't have the luxury in a split second to "know" he is a wonderful family man putting his life together. They have to deal with the facts of a call to handle a drunk driver (who drove to the location MADD should be upset) who passed out in the drive thru lane, who failed a sobriety and over the legal limit, who then resisted and fought ttwo cops , taking the weapon that may not ne "lethal but is incapacitating " and fires it at police while trying to escape custody.

    Truly tragic outcome for Brooks and his family. But is there any accountibility for his actions that set forth the chain of events that led to his death? Any at all?

    No, he shouldn't have died for his actions but that is where it tragically ended because of his series of bad choices. The situation made even worse by the Mayors quick response that it was murder and firing a police chief. Or the comments from civic leaders completely dismissing Brook's role in this tragic ending to fuel the mob's passions.

    Maybe we can have a follow up article of all the families ot the Wendy's employees negatively impacted by the senseles burning of the business. Or make it all better with a Go Fund Me page. Yes my cynacism is showing, every time I think we might have finally some positive outcomes of all this madness, something tragically occurs that reveals just how far apart seemingly rational and empassioned people can be on a topic when looking at the exact same incident. Good luck to us all.

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  • dizzolve
    replied
    For 40minutes everyone was doing the right things. The guy was obviously inebriated.

    Did you know of the 3 shots, one bullet hit a car with children in it? And the suspect was shot in the back. The taser is non-lethal. Was it really necessary to fire off a pistol? No it wasn't

    It's ironic to me that no one gets shot that night if the police don't show up. They lose control of the very weapons THEY brought with them. And because of THAT, the suspect ends up dead .........and almost killed innocent family. Why? They weren't going to let the drunk driver get away(on foot) at ANY cost?

    Once a taser is fired it's got no more rounds in it till you reload it. So once it was fired the Policeman was NO LONGER in any danger whatsoever. And it was at that point the police shot him.

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  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
    He never had a lethal weapon in his hand. The cops couldn't chase him down ehh? See that's where we split I guess. Instead of running a little and tackling the tired nearly passed out drunk guy .........they could just shoot him dead and not break a sweat

    That's how training needs to change. Lethal force was not necc no matter how you look at it.

    Then again you know what ... I haven't seen all the angles yet. I only saw 1. Maybe I should take a closer look at this before I argue you're wrong. Hard to watch this stuff though.

    On one hand, ... police never show up -- no one dies there that night. He wasn't robbing a store or kidnapping someone .........He was just a drunk who passed out in his car. Not a good thing ... but not worth killing over either. And a well trained cop might treat a passed out drunk with a different demeanor than, a need to kill. He shot him in the back 3 times. The back

    You just figure you send cops in there to keep the peace. Make sure no one gets hurt and get that guy out of the line or whatever............ but no they actually brought the killing with them
    I won’t say the officer was right in killing him, but in the moment I do think there’s a very real possibility that he didn’t realize the guy took his taser. So when he turned to fire it the cop probably thought it was a gun at first. Granted even if it was a gun the likelihood of the guy hitting the cop while running away and twisting back while intoxicated is very low.

    I do question everything leading up to it though. I try to block these videos out of my head but if I recall correctly there were 2 cops. I don’t see why the 2nd cop was in there fighting, it’d be easier to step away and get a shot off with his taser or take out his baton to deal with him. I’m not sure how long this was going on for either but I’ve never been stopped like that (which has happened more than I care to admit) and not had at least 2 more squad cars pull up but there was never any backup in the video.

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  • EddieMac
    replied
    Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
    I heard FOX got caught photoshopping the scene there in CHAZ. Trying to scare their viewers. In fact one photo was taken in Minneapolis and they inserted in as Seattle ...........just be careful what you watch. I'm sure all of em do it
    And that’s not where I am getting info..but not surprised... news media will do anything to get headlines...

    Leave a comment:


  • EddieMac
    replied
    Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
    He never had a lethal weapon in his hand. The cops couldn't chase him down ehh? See that's where we split I guess. Instead of running a little and tackling the tired nearly passed out drunk guy .........they could just shoot him dead and not break a sweat

    That's how training needs to change. Lethal force was not necc no matter how you look at it.

    Then again you know what ... I haven't seen all the angles yet. I only saw 1. Maybe I should take a closer look at this before I argue you're wrong. Hard to watch this stuff though.

    On one hand, ... police never show up -- no one dies there that night. He wasn't robbing a store or kidnapping someone .........He was just a drunk who passed out in his car. Not a good thing ... but not worth killing over either. And a well trained cop might treat a passed out drunk with a different demeanor than, a need to kill. He shot him in the back 3 times. The back

    You just figure you send cops in there to keep the peace. Make sure no one gets hurt and get that guy out of the line or whatever............ but no they actually brought the killing with them
    Let’s ignore they were called to deal with him. And stop a drunk driver,,,Who then decided to fight after failing a s Sobriety test, and take a weapon from a police officer, run and fire it at him,,,


    Ya.......The police brought the killing...

    Leave a comment:


  • mozzerpete
    replied
    Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    Yeah Juarez is bad, but its not as bad as it use to be. Part of the reason I I would move to El Paso is thr proximity to Juarez for ministry work.
    I know El Paso is pretty safe, honestly my biggest concern would be fitting in as a minority, although everywhere I’ve been with a big Latino population most people have been very warm. I read El Paso is 2/3 Latino.
    It makes me sad when I hear of murdered Americans in Mexico.
    Unfortunately, Mexico is one big Chazzzzzz with a Narco militia.
    As Trump said, "Some of them, I assume are good people."
    (He assumes correct).

    When you travel to Mexico be extra cautious without appearing cautious,
    if that makes any sense?
    You're braver than I. Good luck with Mexico.

    El Paso should be cool. I enjoy it.
    We Hispanics like a few others are pretty welcoming.
    However, we have issues in our own community to work through.

    Leave a comment:


  • dizzolve
    replied
    Originally posted by CheyennePress View Post
    Um, that unarmed suspect resisted arrest, assaulted 2 police officers, stole the taser of an officer, and shot it at him. Not sure that I call that "unarmed sleeping guy."
    He never had a lethal weapon in his hand. The cops couldn't chase him down ehh? See that's where we split I guess. Instead of running a little and tackling the tired nearly passed out drunk guy .........they could just shoot him dead and not break a sweat

    That's how training needs to change. Lethal force was not necc no matter how you look at it.

    Then again you know what ... I haven't seen all the angles yet. I only saw 1. Maybe I should take a closer look at this before I argue you're wrong. Hard to watch this stuff though.

    On one hand, ... police never show up -- no one dies there that night. He wasn't robbing a store or kidnapping someone .........He was just a drunk who passed out in his car. Not a good thing ... but not worth killing over either. And a well trained cop might treat a passed out drunk with a different demeanor than, a need to kill. He shot him in the back 3 times. The back

    You just figure you send cops in there to keep the peace. Make sure no one gets hurt and get that guy out of the line or whatever............ but no they actually brought the killing with them
    Last edited by dizzolve; 06-15-2020, 11:07 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • dizzolve
    replied
    Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
    My sources are saying SamE things... armed guards jacking up and robbing people...looting... basically a micro-society where there are no laws.. except the people with the guns...
    I heard FOX got caught photoshopping the scene there in CHAZ. Trying to scare their viewers. In fact one photo was taken in Minneapolis and they inserted in as Seattle ...........just be careful what you watch. I'm sure all of em do it

    Leave a comment:


  • EddieMac
    replied
    Originally posted by Al Wilson 4 Mayor View Post
    I’m not sure where you’re getting your info on Seattle Can, although I do understand most news outlets vary quite a bit on the way they report what’s going on, and unfortunately most of them have strayed from reporting the news and are largely propaganda machines.

    I can tell you from a boots on the ground perspective the Seattle situation is not good. I won’’t name specific customers but I can tell you we have turned down businesses who want us to board up their locations because we’re not going to send people into an area where they’re not safe. Buildings are being vandalized and even burned and the mayor is doing nothing to protect her citizens. The fire department won’t go in either for fear of their safety.
    It’s a terrible situation.
    My sources are saying SamE things... armed guards jacking up and robbing people...looting... basically a micro-society where there are no laws.. except the people with the guns...

    Leave a comment:


  • CheyennePress
    replied
    Originally posted by dizzolve View Post
    Wow so they shot another unarmed suspect. Unreal. I guess the cops didn't feel like running after him so they just shot him down when he ran away from them.... he was a drunk and asleep in his car. Cops roll up .......surprise surprise a drunk man isn't acting rationally ...........SHOOT HIM

    He's dead
    Um, that unarmed suspect resisted arrest, assaulted 2 police officers, stole the taser of an officer, and shot it at him. Not sure that I call that "unarmed sleeping guy."

    Leave a comment:


  • dizzolve
    replied
    Wow so they shot another unarmed suspect. Unreal. I guess the cops didn't feel like running after him so they just shot him down when he ran away from them.... he was a drunk and asleep in his car. Cops roll up .......surprise surprise a drunk man isn't acting rationally ...........SHOOT HIM

    He's dead

    Leave a comment:


  • dizzolve
    replied
    Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
    Wil all respect to you dissolve posting the video..,it is really a comedy skit using excerpt of things to make his points in a humorous way, it twists the reality of what is being said. Specifically I can personally speak to the CL Grossman portion, having listened to him speak...he is a bright man, and he speaks to police, not being killers, but emotionally surviving lethal encounters... those clips twist it something else..

    Just another perspective...on a perspective... :thumb:
    What's being twisted? Maybe a punchline just to make a joke. But he's quoting real stats. There's no twisting. Yes it's a comedy skit. I'm not expected to trust Fox or MSNBC or CNN am I? As far as I'm concerned he proved his points with evidence and good research. There is a lot of real knowledge that can be taken away from it. And I've seen other reports cross reference to his on the money. If I'm not seeing it -- tell me what it is

    Leave a comment:


  • Al Wilson 4 Mayor
    replied
    Originally posted by CanDB View Post
    I will not comment yet on the Brooks case, because there is information I need to make an informed decision. I have thoughts about why this even escalated. I also have thoughts about resisting the police.

    But I think the issue going forward is, no matter the specific case, as long as videos keep showing up similar to this, it will only make the protesting stay firm.

    As for Seattle.....hey, I was never a hippy, though a lot of what I saw in the 60s/70s was fine by me. For the most part, a peaceful group. But for what I see so far, the scene is quite peaceful there as well. Like I have said, I believe this overall approach (even at a global level to some degree) is a movement, and not a sporadic event. It may not be the largest and most activated movements, but it has many of the characteristics that conform to the guidelines, as I can imagine them to be.

    In the end, for me anyway, anything that sparks relatively significant change, from the ground level, fits "movement" description.
    I’m not sure where you’re getting your info on Seattle Can, although I do understand most news outlets vary quite a bit on the way they report what’s going on, and unfortunately most of them have strayed from reporting the news and are largely propaganda machines.

    I can tell you from a boots on the ground perspective the Seattle situation is not good. I won’’t name specific customers but I can tell you we have turned down businesses who want us to board up their locations because we’re not going to send people into an area where they’re not safe. Buildings are being vandalized and even burned and the mayor is doing nothing to protect her citizens. The fire department won’t go in either for fear of their safety.
    It’s a terrible situation.

    Leave a comment:

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