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  • samparnell
    replied
    Originally posted by BiscuitBronco View Post
    Do you think that Elway already had a trade up deal for the next pick when he passed on Lock in second round in favour of Risner?
    Maybe. He had Pittsburgh's second round pick which he combined with a couple of other picks to move up and get Lock. It was part of the deal in which Pittsburgh moved from #20 to #10 to get Bush. For Denver the trade produced Fant, Lock and Cushenberry.

    Leave a comment:


  • BiscuitBronco
    replied
    Do you think that Elway already had a trade up deal for the next pick when he passed on Lock in second round in favour of Risner?

    Leave a comment:


  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
    Elway statistically has drafted substantially fewer Pro Bowl players than nearly every other team since 2011. Elway isn’t average, he is BELOW AVERAGE at drafting. My point is, if he was missing on his QB choices, he could have made up for it by by drafting well, especially in the early rounds. But instead he has both missed on QB decisions and squandered a dozen 1st and 2nd round picks in his tenure.

    You are right to some extent that Osweiler, Lynch, and Lock are the true tests of Elway. So the question is, how long does Lock have before we can make a judgment?
    Pro Bowls are a fickle way to judge a GM though. The better your team is, the more guys that will make it whether they’re deserving or not and even then we’re still likely to have less than other teams due to us being a small market team. Eventually it all circles back to the QB position but even if Lock lights it up this year we’ll still likely have 3 or 4 guys named to the Pro Bowl at the most.

    For example, Jurrell Casey has been named to the Pro Bowl the past 5 seasons after being snubbed the 2 seasons before that. Yet last season we had 2 guys who outperformed him and neither made it. Now that he’s here he probably won’t make it unless his production jumps up another level. There’s nothing Elway can do about that. Smaller market teams have to have guys play at a higher level for longer to have a shot especially if they don’t have a QB forcing the team into the conversation for morning talk shows. That’s why Simmons made 2nd team all pro but got snubbed in favor of Earl Thomas in the Pro Bowl.

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  • underrated29
    replied
    Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
    We all know how important QBs are. Elway’s choice at GM were Paxton Lynch, Mark Sanchez, Trevor Siemian, Case Keenum, Joe Flacco and others. Is Drew Lock the answer? I hope so, but so far his numbers are identical to Trevor Siemian’s through five games.

    Meanwhile, Elway is responsible for our dreadful early draft picks until 2018. Drafting folks like Montee Ball, Cody Latimer, Shane Ray, Ty Sambrailo, etc. has nothing to do with not having a star QB. That is an empty excuse.
    Really? So what say you about:

    Derek Wolfe?
    Von Miller?
    Justin simmons?
    Connor McGovern?
    Courtland sutton?
    Dalton riser?
    Aj Johnson?
    Lindsey?
    Fant?
    Dremont Jones?
    Purcell?
    Kareem Jackson?



    I can go on. Tis you that has the excuses.
    If you won't accept it, name 5 teams that went from HOF qb, to franchise QB in 5 years.......


    I'll wait for your excuses. Step up or shut up.

    Ps. Elway and Co LOVED:
    Wentz
    Prescott
    Mahomes
    Luck
    Mayfield

    But were not in position to draft any of them. They thought lock was a top 10 pick. We got him in rd 2. How many ppg did trev average ? I bet lock is better.

    Leave a comment:


  • GiddyupGetEm
    replied
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    That isn’t true at all. Belichick is grossly overrated as a talent evaluator and many of his draft picks are bad and a bad values but because of Brady he’s been deemed this great evaluator of talent. If we had a great QB we’d still end up in the playoffs and no one would care about those wasted picks. Judging him off the QBs isn’t ideal either, very few GMs have a good track record there. Throwing in retreads meant as bridges means very little IMO. The only QBs I feel he can truly be judged off of are Osweiler, Lynch, and Lock and if you believe the stuff that went down with Prescott you could throw him in there as well. They were all taken with the expectation of being franchise QBs. Lock looks better than either of them in an offense that eased him in so there’s promise.

    And you can’t only bring up the bad, he’s had plenty of good draft picks in there as well.
    Elway statistically has drafted substantially fewer Pro Bowl players than nearly every other team since 2011. Elway isn’t average, he is BELOW AVERAGE at drafting. My point is, if he was missing on his QB choices, he could have made up for it by by drafting well, especially in the early rounds. But instead he has both missed on QB decisions and squandered a dozen 1st and 2nd round picks in his tenure.

    You are right to some extent that Osweiler, Lynch, and Lock are the true tests of Elway. So the question is, how long does Lock have before we can make a judgment?

    Leave a comment:


  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post
    We all know how important QBs are. Elway’s choice at GM were Paxton Lynch, Mark Sanchez, Trevor Siemian, Case Keenum, Joe Flacco and others. Is Drew Lock the answer? I hope so, but so far his numbers are identical to Trevor Siemian’s through five games.

    Meanwhile, Elway is responsible for our dreadful early draft picks until 2018. Drafting folks like Montee Ball, Cody Latimer, Shane Ray, Ty Sambrailo, etc. has nothing to do with not having a star QB. That is an empty excuse.
    That isn’t true at all. Belichick is grossly overrated as a talent evaluator and many of his draft picks are bad and a bad values but because of Brady he’s been deemed this great evaluator of talent. If we had a great QB we’d still end up in the playoffs and no one would care about those wasted picks. Judging him off the QBs isn’t ideal either, very few GMs have a good track record there. Throwing in retreads meant as bridges means very little IMO. The only QBs I feel he can truly be judged off of are Osweiler, Lynch, and Lock and if you believe the stuff that went down with Prescott you could throw him in there as well. They were all taken with the expectation of being franchise QBs. Lock looks better than either of them in an offense that eased him in so there’s promise.

    And you can’t only bring up the bad, he’s had plenty of good draft picks in there as well.
    Last edited by beastlyskronk; 09-04-2020, 02:52 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • GiddyupGetEm
    replied
    Originally posted by underrated29 View Post
    Its silly to get rid of Elway. Many cannot understand the forest through the trees. Any team that does not have a Good Solid starting QB is going to stink. Almost ZERO teams go from having a HOF QB to another franchise QB in 5 seasons. It does not happen. It usually takes a lot longer than 5 years to find a QB too.

    If teams were as knee jerk as the fans here there would be new GM jobs for about 26 teams each year!
    It does not matter who the GM is when you lose a HOF QB and it takes a minute to find a new one.
    We all know how important QBs are. Elway’s choice at GM were Paxton Lynch, Mark Sanchez, Trevor Siemian, Case Keenum, Joe Flacco and others. Is Drew Lock the answer? I hope so, but so far his numbers are identical to Trevor Siemian’s through five games.

    Meanwhile, Elway is responsible for our dreadful early draft picks until 2018. Drafting folks like Montee Ball, Cody Latimer, Shane Ray, Ty Sambrailo, etc. has nothing to do with not having a star QB. That is an empty excuse.

    Leave a comment:


  • samparnell
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    You must had saw the reports right before the trade that suddenly Fangio was highly impressed with Bassey.

    No one knew this trade was going down but Mike Klis was all over Twitter with high praise from Fangio toward Bassey then Suddenly a trade happens! This is huge, it’s shouting in favor of Basseys Play during training camp.
    has, have, had seen

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam_Z
    replied
    Originally posted by JvDub95 View Post
    So you think Elway himself won't resign? The guy bleeds orange and blue, if it were up to him I think he'd continue this job till it kills him. Imo, Elway does resign and we win another SB under his guidance. Our last SB was one he bought I think he wants a SB with one he drafted
    It’s very hard to say, I don’t see him ever resigning and I dont see him ever leaving this team in shambles.

    I can see him setting this team up with great talent and then exiting once his contract is up. If they’re good enough to compete for a championship under his guidance then so be it but I still say he’s got to find those offensive tackles before we can compete with the top teams on a more head to head level.
    Last edited by Sam_Z; 09-04-2020, 11:43 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • underrated29
    replied
    Theyve been grooming Matt Russel to take over the gm job.

    Leave a comment:


  • JvDub95
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    What makes no sense?

    I said we’ll see another two years of John Elway as the GM however after that IMO I don’t see him being with the team any longer.

    It’s not that I’m passing over critical disdain for him, it’s because his contract is up and I don’t see him renewing it. He’s been with the team a very long time and I believe he’ll be ready to move on while paving the way and get ready for it but Matt Russell taking over as his heir.

    Personally I’d rather see someone with more of a player background but I don’t think that is happening, it’ll be Matt Russell which really stinks but what can you do!
    So you think Elway himself won't resign? The guy bleeds orange and blue, if it were up to him I think he'd continue this job till it kills him. Imo, Elway does resign and we win another SB under his guidance. Our last SB was one he bought I think he wants a SB with one he drafted

    Leave a comment:


  • Zealander
    replied
    Championship

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam_Z
    replied
    Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
    This makes no sense. Trust me when I say I have been as critical as anyone on Elway. that said Risner, Lock are recent examples of non-1st round players who have been pretty good in rounds 2-3. Now the question is this - can we turn the corner and make the play-offs and not go one and done OR at least be hyper competitive. If we do that I do not see a need to get rid of Elway. There are so few teams who lose a franchise QB and then bounce back in less than 2-3 years. If we can get back to the post-season in 5 years - not bad.
    What makes no sense?

    I said we’ll see another two years of John Elway as the GM however after that IMO I don’t see him being with the team any longer.

    It’s not that I’m passing over critical disdain for him, it’s because his contract is up and I don’t see him renewing it. He’s been with the team a very long time and I believe he’ll be ready to move on while paving the way and get ready for it but Matt Russell taking over as his heir.

    Personally I’d rather see someone with more of a player background but I don’t think that is happening, it’ll be Matt Russell which really stinks but what can you do!

    Leave a comment:


  • underrated29
    replied
    Its silly to get rid of Elway. Many cannot understand the forest through the trees. Any team that does not have a Good Solid starting QB is going to stink. Almost ZERO teams go from having a HOF QB to another franchise QB in 5 seasons. It does not happen. It usually takes a lot longer than 5 years to find a QB too.

    If teams were as knee jerk as the fans here there would be new GM jobs for about 26 teams each year!
    It does not matter who the GM is when you lose a HOF QB and it takes a minute to find a new one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sophia23
    replied
    I'm not usually so happy to see a Bronco go... but must say I was pleased with this one.

    Leave a comment:

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