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  • Debate Help

    Just need help settling a debate my buddy and I had. It’s a scenario that we both know would never happen but still had the discussion. Now we need your help on who is right.

    Scenario:
    - Denver gets plagued with a ton of more injuries and we end up having the worst record because of it. During the season Lock looks very promising but doesn’t break out due to all the injuries/lack of talent around him. With the first overall pick next year, do you still select Trevor Lawrence and trade Lock away? Or roll the dice on Lock and move out of the first overall spot?

    Like I mentioned before, we both know this is extremely unlikely (Besides all the injuries part). Just a fun little debate.

  • #2
    You take the guy who truly makes your team better. Then trade Lock to a QB needy team for a 1st.

    Comment


    • #3
      Tough call for me. So much would depend on what we see on the field throughout the season from Lock.

      Does he show enough promise to be a legitimate starter?

      Think of it as having a consistent 8 instead of a promising 10.

      Do we trust Lock to become a Stafford/ Prescott type QB or hope that Lawrence develops into the next Rodgers/Manning?

      I’m always inclined to be conservative with decisions and the value of long term consistency and stability over always chasing the “next big thing”.

      Like I stated. Tough call.

      Comment


      • #4
        One of the most valuable 1st overall picks in draft history? Plus, we've already got a developing quarterback on the roster? I'd trade back for Sewell, Parsons, or one of the corners, and get a bunch of capital in the process.

        Don't get me wrong, Lawrence is one of the most sure fire QB prospects we've seen, but Lock hasn't done anything yet to make me think he can't be the guy. Taking a season like the hypothetical one you're proposing into consideration, it would be hard to draw any conclusions. I guess you would get a glimpse into his ability to carry a team, but he's still technically a rookie where starts are concerned. He has impressed me so far. I don't see this as a potential Josh Rosen situation, even if Lawrence is a better prospect than Murray was. Lock has been way better than Rosen so far, IMO.

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        • #5
          I suppose it depends on what sort of season Lawrence has. I know everyone has goo-goo eyes for Lawrence, but there's a new "belle of the ball" every year in college football.

          Even if he still looks like the undisputed #1 pick, it still doesn't guarantee instant NFL success.

          If Lock looks the part and you already have 2 years invested in him, perhaps it would be a better idea to trade back for a slew of picks to bolster more of the roster.
          sigpic

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          • #6
            So far it looks like you guys would stick with Lock.

            I stated to get Lawrence and trade Lock for at least a 2nd and use the two’s for Oline and a LB if available. Another reason is because I’d love to watch Mahomes vs Lawrence for possibly the next 10+ years.

            Comment


            • #7
              Take Lawrence. If they have the worst record, Fangio is probably gone, let the new regime begin with the franchise QB. Unless Lock shows he is overwhelmingly the guy to lead you into the future, which I think would be hard to tell if you are that bad as a team.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Murph2432 View Post
                So far it looks like you guys would stick with Lock.

                I stated to get Lawrence and trade Lock for at least a 2nd and use the two’s for Oline and a LB if available. Another reason is because I’d love to watch Mahomes vs Lawrence for possibly the next 10+ years.
                The problem (for me) is you never really know whether the draft pick will become a great NFL QB. He might end up being the greatest QB in NFL history, or he could end up being much less. You just don't know. Based on how much hype Lawrence has, and how much first overall picks go for, IF Lock looks like he's going to be a good NFL QB, I think you deal that pick for a slew of other picks and continue to build around Lock.

                Miami, Jacksonville and the Jets all have multiple first round picks in 2021, Jacksonville also has multiple second round picks. If hypothetically you could trade the first overall pick to Jacksonville for their first (let's call it 5), the Rams first round pick (lets call it 20) and Jacksonville's second round pick, I think you'd have to give it serious consideration. You may even be able to get their 2022 first round pick as well, because they're trading up to 1, and it's the Lawrence draft.

                But it all depends on Lock. Even with a whole bunch of injuries I think you'd be able to tell about him, because he'd be elevating the team and having them close to winning games, or winning games, despite those around him. Franchise QBs elevate those around them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Murph2432 View Post
                  Just need help settling a debate my buddy and I had. It’s a scenario that we both know would never happen but still had the discussion. Now we need your help on who is right.

                  Scenario:
                  - Denver gets plagued with a ton of more injuries and we end up having the worst record because of it. During the season Lock looks very promising but doesn’t break out due to all the injuries/lack of talent around him. With the first overall pick next year, do you still select Trevor Lawrence and trade Lock away? Or roll the dice on Lock and move out of the first overall spot?

                  Like I mentioned before, we both know this is extremely unlikely (Besides all the injuries part). Just a fun little debate.
                  To me I know need to know a lot more details about how Lock plays. PM had 28 Ints in his first 16 games as a starter. A completion percentage under 60%, A rating of 71.2. That is definitely not a "break out". How a QB plays is more important that the stats when trying to determine if they are a franchise QB or not.

                  If the season ended today for some reason and we had the 1st overall pick right now I would stick with Lock and build the team around him. Based on what I see the rest of 2020 I may change that opinion.
                  Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I’d roll with Lock especially if he managed to still look promising with a bunch of injuries around him. Lawrence hasn’t been as impressive to me as the hype around him. I’d like to see what we’d get in a potential trade offer to get even more talent around Lock.

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                    • #11
                      The value of that 1 pick is so high with Lawrence there...

                      If lock continues his development from last year... You AT LEAST take offers for that pick...if you can load up on draft capitol there is a lot of cheap depth for a few years...

                      If the offers are not there... an Lawrence looks the part, you take him.. and eventually will get something for one of the QB's
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        I would dangle that pick for all it's worth, and I am very sure we could land a ton of capital for it. Unless Lock regresses of course.

                        But if Lock still looks to be our guy, and knowing how much stock teams put into QBs, especially the young man we are referring to, the return may be an offer we can not refuse!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                          To me I know need to know a lot more details about how Lock plays. PM had 28 Ints in his first 16 games as a starter. A completion percentage under 60%, A rating of 71.2. That is definitely not a "break out". How a QB plays is more important that the stats when trying to determine if they are a franchise QB or not.

                          If the season ended today for some reason and we had the 1st overall pick right now I would stick with Lock and build the team around him. Based on what I see the rest of 2020 I may change that opinion.
                          This is an excellent point. Why have we becoming so demanding of young QBs that they have to either look world class within their first couple of seasons or they're destined to be lesser players? It never used to be that way. Manning, Elway and a ton of others had very difficult starts and still become legends.

                          As others have said, if Lock can show that he can be a solid QB (W/L record not being the only creterion), I wouldn't pick Lawrence next year.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GMTD View Post
                            This is an excellent point. Why have we becoming so demanding of young QBs that they have to either look world class within their first couple of seasons or they're destined to be lesser players? It never used to be that way. Manning, Elway and a ton of others had very difficult starts and still become legends.

                            As others have said, if Lock can show that he can be a solid QB (W/L record not being the only creterion), I wouldn't pick Lawrence next year.
                            I still remember Elway lining up under the Guard to take a snap. Some people were not too happy with Elway his rookie year.
                            Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If we had number 1 I'd just buck the trend and make sure we get Penei Sewell. Then we have a book end for the next 15 years to build along with lock. Would be great. Either way i feel a tackle like Sewell would be worth a first overall pick. You want a guy who can be an all pro for years and start right away. That looks like Sewell to me. I think he is the most for sure prospect this draft
                              Last edited by Kyousukeneko; 09-18-2020, 03:24 PM.
                              sigpic
                              oakland raders gm
                              latavis murray trade bait

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