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Shaq Barrett > Bradley Chubb

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  • #61
    Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post

    At the time of the post, Chubb had zero sacks after three games. Barrett had several. I standby my comment Chubb has not fulfilled expectations of a fifth overall pick and the Broncos should have signed Barrett to an extension early on instead of drafting Chubb.
    Right now Chubb has been healthy 2 years and he looks like he will have 10+ sacks both years. Chubb is one of the young and coming edges in this league. He looks elite to me. He has really good burst and bend for a 265 pounder.
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    • #62
      I sometimes wonder how the internet would have treated Lawrence Taylor...who is now considered by many the best pass rusher all time. There are good arguments to be made for other players I agree. He went through multiple games without making an impact in the numbers people look at today. This does not even include the games missed due to injury.

      I can see it now..."LT has not made a sack in weeks! Here are my ideas for trade proposals....in Madden I got this..."
      Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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      • #63
        Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post

        At the time of the post, Chubb had zero sacks after three games. Barrett had several. I standby my comment Chubb has not fulfilled expectations of a fifth overall pick and the Broncos should have signed Barrett to an extension early on instead of drafting Chubb.
        Now you’re just changing your narrative to fit an agenda based argument. Now it’s not he has to have more sacks or he’s a bust. Now it’s he needs more and it has to be what you deem to be top 5 pick worthy but Barrett who is now paid to be an elite rusher gets a free pass.
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        • #64
          Originally posted by DenverBlood View Post

          Now you’re just changing your narrative to fit an agenda based argument. Now it’s not he has to have more sacks or he’s a bust. Now it’s he needs more and it has to be what you deem to be top 5 pick worthy but Barrett who is now paid to be an elite rusher gets a free pass.

          The conversation evolved, but my position hasn't changed. We used the FIFTH overall pick on someone everyone expected to be a dynamic, game changing edge rusher, game in, game out. At the time we had Shaq Barrett shining in a backup role. Had we given Shaq more starts, who knows how well he could have done.

          But Elway and the front office made a decision to go with Chubb in the draft. When you have strong pass rush talent already and you give up a cheap price tag for a top of the draft pick, you can't be wrong. There has to be a substantial difference in performance between Shaq and Chubb. There hasn't been. He passed over Quenton Nelson (sure to be a hall of famer at a position of need for us), multiple QBs who have proven strong, and other picks at positions of need.

          Is Shaq better than Chubb? Some of Chubb's sacks this year have been more luck than skill. He got most of his stats against an awful Jets offensive line has let everyone walk through. Chubb and Shaq are about the same performance-wise. But when you look at value, there is no comparison. But we had Shaq for under $3 million a year in 2018.

          And let's not forget that Elway drafted Chubb because Shane Ray didn't work out. Elway drafted Lock because Osweiler and Lynch didn't work out. We keep recycling top draft picks on players to replace busts. Bust after bust. Not a good cycle to be in. Being a GM is about identifying talent and preserving value. Elway fails at both.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post


            The conversation evolved, but my position hasn't changed. We used the FIFTH overall pick on someone everyone expected to be a dynamic, game changing edge rusher, game in, game out. At the time we had Shaq Barrett shining in a backup role. Had we given Shaq more starts, who knows how well he could have done.

            But Elway and the front office made a decision to go with Chubb in the draft. When you have strong pass rush talent already and you give up a cheap price tag for a top of the draft pick, you can't be wrong. There has to be a substantial difference in performance between Shaq and Chubb. There hasn't been. He passed over Quenton Nelson (sure to be a hall of famer at a position of need for us), multiple QBs who have proven strong, and other picks at positions of need.

            Is Shaq better than Chubb? Some of Chubb's sacks this year have been more luck than skill. He got most of his stats against an awful Jets offensive line has let everyone walk through. Chubb and Shaq are about the same performance-wise. But when you look at value, there is no comparison. But we had Shaq for under $3 million a year in 2018.

            And let's not forget that Elway drafted Chubb because Shane Ray didn't work out. Elway drafted Lock because Osweiler and Lynch didn't work out. We keep recycling top draft picks on players to replace busts. Bust after bust. Not a good cycle to be in. Being a GM is about identifying talent and preserving value. Elway fails at both.
            agreed
            ...
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            • #66
              Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post


              The conversation evolved, but my position hasn't changed. We used the FIFTH overall pick on someone everyone expected to be a dynamic, game changing edge rusher, game in, game out. At the time we had Shaq Barrett shining in a backup role. Had we given Shaq more starts, who knows how well he could have done.

              But Elway and the front office made a decision to go with Chubb in the draft. When you have strong pass rush talent already and you give up a cheap price tag for a top of the draft pick, you can't be wrong. There has to be a substantial difference in performance between Shaq and Chubb. There hasn't been. He passed over Quenton Nelson (sure to be a hall of famer at a position of need for us), multiple QBs who have proven strong, and other picks at positions of need.

              Is Shaq better than Chubb? Some of Chubb's sacks this year have been more luck than skill. He got most of his stats against an awful Jets offensive line has let everyone walk through. Chubb and Shaq are about the same performance-wise. But when you look at value, there is no comparison. But we had Shaq for under $3 million a year in 2018.

              And let's not forget that Elway drafted Chubb because Shane Ray didn't work out. Elway drafted Lock because Osweiler and Lynch didn't work out. We keep recycling top draft picks on players to replace busts. Bust after bust. Not a good cycle to be in. Being a GM is about identifying talent and preserving value. Elway fails at both.
              this seems more like Elway did a bad draft pick, then Chubb is worst then Barrett. i do want to say Chubb is young, he is still only 24, 3 years younger then barrett. he`also still looks like one of the up and coming Pass rushers in this league. you can argue all you want about the pick but Chubb looks special to me. he does move like a 6'4 269 pound guy. he is very explosive for his size. he also has good technique for his age. he is also learning from Miller. Barrett has had 1 break out year but he did not look any thing more then a rotational rusher here. he also has really dropped off this year.

              you could also say the same about Barrett or alot of pass rusher. they get most there sacks against bad lines. hi s big sack numbers last season came from JAg, NYG Car and Alanta. none of those have good o-lines.

              Barrett Had sacks against DEn, NO and LAC this year, none of those have strong line

              Chubb did have a break out against the JETs, but he has got a sack the next 3 games and last game he missed it. plus they say it takes a year or 2 to fully recover from the type of injury that Chubb has. this is not even his celling. while i don't see Barrett doing much better ever again then he did last year.
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              • #67
                For those who think Barrett reached his ceiling last year, what’s his floor?

                Bruce Smith averaged 10 sacks per year.

                Reggie White averaged 12

                Kevin Greene averaged 11(rounded up)

                these are the top 3 all time.

                it ain’t easy to get to 19, even for the great ones.

                I don’t know who’s better, but let’s stop pretending that we know for sure Barrett isn’t.
                My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
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                • #68
                  Originally posted by GiddyupGetEm View Post


                  At the time we had Shaq Barrett shining in a backup role. Had we given Shaq more starts, who knows how well he could have done.
                  I disagree that Barrett was shining in his role. He played 664 snaps in 2017, 67.21% of the defensive snaps that season, and came away with only 4.0 sacks. Von Miller was a one-man army rushing the passer. That's why Chubb entered the equation. Chubb has disappointed, but he was a very logical pick. Barrett blew his chance in Denver when he got an expanded role. If he had performed anything close to what he did in 2019, of course history would have been different. Keep in mind that not even the Bucs gave Barrett a significant contrat that offseason, they thought they were getting just a nice rotational piece.
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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Kyousukeneko View Post


                    Barrett Had sacks against DEn, NO and LAC this year, none of those have strong line
                    Tell that to Tampa Bay

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by -Rod- View Post

                      I disagree that Barrett was shining in his role. He played 664 snaps in 2017, 67.21% of the defensive snaps that season, and came away with only 4.0 sacks. Von Miller was a one-man army rushing the passer. That's why Chubb entered the equation. Chubb has disappointed, but he was a very logical pick. Barrett blew his chance in Denver when he got an expanded role. If he had performed anything close to what he did in 2019, of course history would have been different. Keep in mind that not even the Bucs gave Barrett a significant contrat that offseason, they thought they were getting just a nice rotational piece.
                      You could say that from a certain perspective but considering we had Miller and Barrett already and had no one on the oline of any consequence then nelson was the most logical pick....from my perspective.

                      pass rushers are often only really effective if you have a lead in games. it's hard to get leads in games when you have a bottom ranked Oline.
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                      • #71
                        Cubb fell to us in the draft... He was expected to go higer but Cleveland took the corner with the fourth pick... Nelson was viewed as drafted higher than expected and the colts gm is applauded for taking him that high... Its easy to second guess every single decision in hindsight. You dont like elway understood. Every single gm coaching staff and player are going to have highs and lows. But taking the best player available in the draft not drafting need unless your one piece away is how you build quality teams. Nelson and barret wouldnt change where we are in the development of this young team in terms of wins. There still the youngest offense in the league who didnt even get to practice in person last week let alone an off-season to gel and get timing down. Not to mention we have put 17 players on IR. Again its expectations and people wanting to find something to complain about that are the issue. Lets watch this team grow and enjoy the process instead of crying and ignoring the situation at hand. I would love to hear your break down of elways entire gm career and how you down play his accomplishments.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Tdeng88 View Post
                          Cubb fell to us in the draft... He was expected to go higer but Cleveland took the corner with the fourth pick... Nelson was viewed as drafted higher than expected and the colts gm is applauded for taking him that high... Its easy to second guess every single decision in hindsight. You dont like elway understood. Every single gm coaching staff and player are going to have highs and lows. But taking the best player available in the draft not drafting need unless your one piece away is how you build quality teams. Nelson and barret wouldnt change where we are in the development of this young team in terms of wins. There still the youngest offense in the league who didnt even get to practice in person last week let alone an off-season to gel and get timing down. Not to mention we have put 17 players on IR. Again its expectations and people wanting to find something to complain about that are the issue. Lets watch this team grow and enjoy the process instead of crying and ignoring the situation at hand. I would love to hear your break down of elways entire gm career and how you down play his accomplishments.

                          Agreed. Nelson was the best player in the draft.
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                          • #73
                            I’ll reiterate it again whenever people love using hindsight bias to make their point here.

                            Chubb was the best defensive player coming into the draft in 2018. On top of that, he was the best EDGE rusher— meaning that he was not only the consensus best defensive player, but also the best player at the position with the highest positional value on defense. In 2017, Barrett did little to cement himself as the clear starter opposite Miller. If I recall correctly, he and Ray were pretty much splitting time as the starting EDGE. It was obvious that Barrett was talented, but I hardly believe that most of you guys in this thread thought he was good enough to be the starter for the foreseeable future— especially if we had the opportunity to draft Chubb (barely any mocks had him falling to us anyways, so it was mostly a Nelson vs. Smith vs. QB debate on these boards).
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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post


                              Agreed. Nelson was the best player in the draft.
                              Nelson had surefire All-Pro written all over him, that’s not a debate. But there’s no way he was the best player in the draft considering his positional value as a LG. At the time though, it was truly subjective whether Nelson or Chubb was BPA at #5. Like I said in my post above, Chubb was the best defensive player in the draft and slid to us. Nelson was undeniably a generational prospect for interior offensive line, but he was projected right in our range (5-10) while Chubb was widely-considered a top-four pick.
                              2020 Adopt-A-Bronco: #10 JERRY JEUDY
                              Previous Adoptees: #25 CHRIS HARRIS, #38 QUINTON CARTER, #43 TJ WARD

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by HDbroncos02 View Post
                                I’ll reiterate it again whenever people love using hindsight bias to make their point here.

                                Chubb was the best defensive player coming into the draft in 2018. On top of that, he was the best EDGE rusher— meaning that he was not only the consensus best defensive player, but also the best player at the position with the highest positional value on defense. In 2017, Barrett did little to cement himself as the clear starter opposite Miller. If I recall correctly, he and Ray were pretty much splitting time as the starting EDGE. It was obvious that Barrett was talented, but I hardly believe that most of you guys in this thread thought he was good enough to be the starter for the foreseeable future— especially if we had the opportunity to draft Chubb (barely any mocks had him falling to us anyways, so it was mostly a Nelson vs. Smith vs. QB debate on these boards).
                                I did
                                .......
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