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  • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
    O-Line is in good shape going into 2021 season. Munchak has them playing well. Need rookie T to develop IMO, but beyond that the depth seems good. There was improvement in 2020 which can be carried into 2021.
    I agree with you. We need another OT....preferably a 2nd one we would consider promoting off the PS should James get hurt and the next guy sucks.

    Not sure if Cush will work out at Center. Think he still needs to grow. We can shuffle the inside guys around and get another guard if need.

    We are much better off now at the OL than we have been since even our SB year of 2015 imo.
    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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    • Yea OL is pretty solid right now, they've had some stumped, but they are young.
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      • Originally posted by Hadez View Post

        I agree with you. We need another OT....preferably a 2nd one we would consider promoting off the PS should James get hurt and the next guy sucks.

        Not sure if Cush will work out at Center. Think he still needs to grow. We can shuffle the inside guys around and get another guard if need.

        We are much better off now at the OL than we have been since even our SB year of 2015 imo.
        I actually like cush at center and mutivas a back up for either guard risner and Glasgow are good guards we just need a rt.
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        oakland raders gm
        latavis murray trade bait

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        • They obviously need to add depth. Particularly at RT. I would say as early as the second round. You just can’t count on James to produce or even be out there for that matter.

          I like Cush, he has growing pains but it was a good learning experience, love that he started all 16 games. He should come back next year better with a year under his belt. That said I wouldn’t hesitate adding a center somewhere in the draft.

          They got a good set of Guards, both had their share of problems this year but I would expect a rebound. I like having Muti around in the even one of them gets injured/regresses. I think he could be starting as early as 2022 if they are looking for cheaper options if Glasgow doesn’t have a better year.

          I would like to see them add at least 3 OL in the draft, guys with high ceilings that Munch can coach up. For once Elway and the new GM need to focus on that unit more than anything else in the draft.

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          • I think Wilkinson showed enough in that final stretch for them to convince themselves they don’t need a first round OT. Wilkinson did have some impressive pass sets, at least movement wise. He bends at the waist a good bit so he gets beat at the point of attack but I think Munchak will believe he can coach that out of him. Calvin Anderson also showed some impressive movement skills for an OT but much like Wilkinson he can get caught bending at the waist.

            I do think we should target an OT in the first (depending on if Parsons is available), but I just don’t think they will unless Sewell drops to us or within trade up range.

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            • The James issue is the wild card in any plan for the Oline.

              Broncos are too heavily invested financially in him to not include him. Problem is if James is going to return in shape or with any passion to be the RT?

              I honestly think the G/ C spots are solid and will only get better as chemistry builds. Bolles is the LT. The mystery remains James.

              Im expecting a defense heavy draft. With ILB/CB as the most likely in the first. Possibly an Edge Rusher if Broncos choose to let Miller go. But would hope the Broncos add some talent to develop at OT in the second or third rd. Maybe adding another in a later rd as a deeper prospect?

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              • The RT situation seems to be of some concern, however the closer we get to the draft and by avoiding the position so far in FA -it gives me reason to believe James is not only ready but the team is more than comfortable with him.

                We are quick to forget that he was one of the best RT in the league when we got him and he suffered a knee injury almost immediately into the opener. With the unknown of covid and having family members already hospitalized and a newborn baby at home- he opted out.

                Maybe I'm crazy, but I think we will be closer to having an all-pro RT than we will be to needing to upgrade. I get excited when I re-read his statement on his opt-out.
                He's right, we don't know this guy yet. I'm looking forward to seeing what he does. He's sort of on the back burner right now, but I won't be surprised if he is our best "addition" this season.

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                • Perhaps I am in the minority here but why does everyone here think the Glasgow signing was a good one? He played OK in DET and he was generally healthy. He came to Denver and is hurt and did not look good at all. Muti as a rookie IMO looked far superior.

                  LT:
                  I like G.Bolles. I thought he made some steps forward. That said we do need to look objectively at last season. The league as a whole did NOT call O-line holding nearly as much. Will this trend continue and if it DOESN'T can we expect Bolles to keep his level of play where it was and avoid costly penalties? I think he can.

                  LG
                  Now look to Risner. If we are again being objective Risner took a step backwards last season as a whole. He struggled when running Shurmur's offensive scheme as it was intended. It was not until we started to implement the pulling guards where we started to see Risner improve and do well. By the end of the season Risner had improved.

                  OC
                  I did not think Chush played well. At the beginning of the season we saw him getting pushed back A LOT and as the season went on we started to see less of that and more of defenders slipping between him and the guards. IMO we need him to build more strength so that he can start to push those larger DT/NT out of the way to open better holes in the run game. If we are wanting ot become more of a running team we may wish to bring in competition at OC - IMO.

                  LG
                  really for me this is one of the easier spots on the OL. Muti is an animal when blocking the run. It is awesome. I'd like to see him take over at the RG spot and start getting those valuable reps. He will also need to work on his overall technique BUT with those reps and work with the other guys I think he can be special.

                  RT
                  J.James is the big questions mark. When he has played he's been a pretty good RT. The issue is WHEN he has played. This to me is the premium position on the OL and the best teams in the NFL have talent to seal and protect the edges. If we want Lock to work on digesting and playing the QB position then we need to get this spot figured out. I really really liked Anderson last year but he struggled at RT. I'd like to see him really work on flipping technique and becoming the teams long-term swing tackle. Maybe start if he can. That said I see this position being such a critical need that IMO this should be a round 1 pick for us this year.

                  Overall compared to '19 I think the line has improved. That said compared to many here I still think there is much more work to do to get us back to where we can say it is a strength.

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                  • As far as James I think we should just let him know right now this is a contract year. The Broncos will be releasing him in 2022. Maybe that gets him going...maybe he has made enough money already. We should back this with action...I would draft a OT in the first 2-3 round....multiple OL if drafted later.

                    IMO outside of Bolles one can point to any other part of the OL at times in 2020 and see it struggle. I do think consistency will help some some of these problems...maybe most.

                    I am not sold on Cush but one of the reasons we got Glasgow was because he can play center. If we do that then we can move Muti into G.

                    We still need depth imo but the OL should be in better shape this year than since we had PM healthy.
                    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
                      I think Wilkinson showed enough in that final stretch for them to convince themselves they don’t need a first round OT. Wilkinson did have some impressive pass sets, at least movement wise. He bends at the waist a good bit so he gets beat at the point of attack but I think Munchak will believe he can coach that out of him. Calvin Anderson also showed some impressive movement skills for an OT but much like Wilkinson he can get caught bending at the waist.

                      I do think we should target an OT in the first (depending on if Parsons is available), but I just don’t think they will unless Sewell drops to us or within trade up range.
                      Wonder what Mike Munchak would say about the success rate of turning a waist-bender into a knee bender?
                      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                      • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                        Wonder what Mike Munchak would say about the success rate of turning a waist-bender into a knee bender?
                        You can correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s a mental issue for most guys. I think they fear that they’ll lose their power with their weight shifted back or even that they need the extra lean to initiate contact with their hands.

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                        • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                          You can correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s a mental issue for most guys. I think they fear that they’ll lose their power with their weight shifted back or even that they need the extra lean to initiate contact with their hands.
                          That could be. Much of athletic performance is mental. Bending the knees instead of the waist is physical, though, and I'm sure Munchak has drills to get guys to do that. We used to use the Trap Chute a lot. The watchful eye of a coach can catch the undesirable and with constant attention can turn it around.
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                          • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                            Perhaps I am in the minority here but why does everyone here think the Glasgow signing was a good one? He played OK in DET and he was generally healthy. He came to Denver and is hurt and did not look good at all. Muti as a rookie IMO looked far superior.

                            LT:
                            I like G.Bolles. I thought he made some steps forward. That said we do need to look objectively at last season. The league as a whole did NOT call O-line holding nearly as much. Will this trend continue and if it DOESN'T can we expect Bolles to keep his level of play where it was and avoid costly penalties? I think he can.

                            LG
                            Now look to Risner. If we are again being objective Risner took a step backwards last season as a whole. He struggled when running Shurmur's offensive scheme as it was intended. It was not until we started to implement the pulling guards where we started to see Risner improve and do well. By the end of the season Risner had improved.

                            OC
                            I did not think Chush played well. At the beginning of the season we saw him getting pushed back A LOT and as the season went on we started to see less of that and more of defenders slipping between him and the guards. IMO we need him to build more strength so that he can start to push those larger DT/NT out of the way to open better holes in the run game. If we are wanting ot become more of a running team we may wish to bring in competition at OC - IMO.

                            LG
                            really for me this is one of the easier spots on the OL. Muti is an animal when blocking the run. It is awesome. I'd like to see him take over at the RG spot and start getting those valuable reps. He will also need to work on his overall technique BUT with those reps and work with the other guys I think he can be special.

                            RT
                            J.James is the big questions mark. When he has played he's been a pretty good RT. The issue is WHEN he has played. This to me is the premium position on the OL and the best teams in the NFL have talent to seal and protect the edges. If we want Lock to work on digesting and playing the QB position then we need to get this spot figured out. I really really liked Anderson last year but he struggled at RT. I'd like to see him really work on flipping technique and becoming the teams long-term swing tackle. Maybe start if he can. That said I see this position being such a critical need that IMO this should be a round 1 pick for us this year.

                            Overall compared to '19 I think the line has improved. That said compared to many here I still think there is much more work to do to get us back to where we can say it is a strength.
                            Agreed with this assessment. Glasgow, Cush and Risner did not have good years. But they are still young. Glasgow should lose his job this year to Muti and we should look to cut him after this year if he doesn't take a paycut. Hopefully Cush and Risner can make big steps forward this year.
                            New England Patriots GM

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                            • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                              Perhaps I am in the minority here but why does everyone here think the Glasgow signing was a good one? He played OK in DET and he was generally healthy. He came to Denver and is hurt and did not look good at all. Muti as a rookie IMO looked far superior.

                              LT:
                              I like G.Bolles. I thought he made some steps forward. That said we do need to look objectively at last season. The league as a whole did NOT call O-line holding nearly as much. Will this trend continue and if it DOESN'T can we expect Bolles to keep his level of play where it was and avoid costly penalties? I think he can.

                              LG
                              Now look to Risner. If we are again being objective Risner took a step backwards last season as a whole. He struggled when running Shurmur's offensive scheme as it was intended. It was not until we started to implement the pulling guards where we started to see Risner improve and do well. By the end of the season Risner had improved.

                              OC
                              I did not think Chush played well. At the beginning of the season we saw him getting pushed back A LOT and as the season went on we started to see less of that and more of defenders slipping between him and the guards. IMO we need him to build more strength so that he can start to push those larger DT/NT out of the way to open better holes in the run game. If we are wanting ot become more of a running team we may wish to bring in competition at OC - IMO.

                              LG
                              really for me this is one of the easier spots on the OL. Muti is an animal when blocking the run. It is awesome. I'd like to see him take over at the RG spot and start getting those valuable reps. He will also need to work on his overall technique BUT with those reps and work with the other guys I think he can be special.

                              RT
                              J.James is the big questions mark. When he has played he's been a pretty good RT. The issue is WHEN he has played. This to me is the premium position on the OL and the best teams in the NFL have talent to seal and protect the edges. If we want Lock to work on digesting and playing the QB position then we need to get this spot figured out. I really really liked Anderson last year but he struggled at RT. I'd like to see him really work on flipping technique and becoming the teams long-term swing tackle. Maybe start if he can. That said I see this position being such a critical need that IMO this should be a round 1 pick for us this year.

                              Overall compared to '19 I think the line has improved. That said compared to many here I still think there is much more work to do to get us back to where we can say it is a strength.
                              In regards to Glasgow, I think he was fine. He’s serviceable at RG, probably a better fit at C or even at LG but Cushenberry has a very high ceiling there and Risner is probably entrenched at LG. Glasgow benefitted from having an excellent C in Detroit in Ragnow and a serviceable RT in Wagner. Chemistry is huge along the oline and when you don’t know what to expect from either guy on either side of you it makes the job so much harder. I think Cushenberry was a big reason why the oline looked as bad as it did at times because teams attacked him a lot so it put both OGs in a bad position. Bolles had been bad for the majority of his time here so early in the season Risner was hesitant on who to help or how to play his set to minimize space for the 2 guys around him. Same thing with Glasgow on the other side. Dotson brought some much needed stability for awhile but then him and Glasgow started dealing with injuries. Also let’s not forget that we had multiple guys calling out protections. I saw Lock, Rypien, Risner, Cush, and Glasgow all do it at various points over the course of the season, sometimes even in games.

                              All in all I do expect the line to finally take that step. Cushenberry will come back stronger and smarter, he did improve as the season went on. And he does some really impressive things pulling when given the chance. I hope Munchak can convince Shurmur that he needs to take advantage of that. That Dolphins game was incredible. And if they do replace Glasgow with Muti (because he can be a forceful down blocker), they should run some variation of power G where Cush is pulling outside the TE instead of the play side Guard or just pull both of them and let Beck chop the DT although it’d probably have to come off counter action to get the timing right and at the point may take too long to develop. Could also do some wham with Fant taking out a DT and Cush releasing to the second level, probably even some trap stuff. Sam knows better than I, but I think it’d be a mistake to not get Cush out pulling in the run game and even though centers generally aren’t the main guys pulling, it can create an interesting challenge for defenses since they don’t see it nearly as often.

                              James is still the biggest question mark IMO. Injuries aside, he’s not a great run blocker. He’s serviceable but he’s much better at pass blocking. This team needs a run game that can sustain drives and James may not be the best option for that. Lock is at his best under center in 21 and 22 formations. Shurmur has to fight the urge to show off the shiny toys he has at WR and commit to allowing Lock and the offense to lean on the ground game and play action off of it.

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                              • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                                In regards to Glasgow, I think he was fine. He’s serviceable at RG, probably a better fit at C or even at LG but Cushenberry has a very high ceiling there and Risner is probably entrenched at LG. Glasgow benefitted from having an excellent C in Detroit in Ragnow and a serviceable RT in Wagner. Chemistry is huge along the oline and when you don’t know what to expect from either guy on either side of you it makes the job so much harder. I think Cushenberry was a big reason why the oline looked as bad as it did at times because teams attacked him a lot so it put both OGs in a bad position. Bolles had been bad for the majority of his time here so early in the season Risner was hesitant on who to help or how to play his set to minimize space for the 2 guys around him. Same thing with Glasgow on the other side. Dotson brought some much needed stability for awhile but then him and Glasgow started dealing with injuries. Also let’s not forget that we had multiple guys calling out protections. I saw Lock, Rypien, Risner, Cush, and Glasgow all do it at various points over the course of the season, sometimes even in games.

                                All in all I do expect the line to finally take that step. Cushenberry will come back stronger and smarter, he did improve as the season went on. And he does some really impressive things pulling when given the chance. I hope Munchak can convince Shurmur that he needs to take advantage of that. That Dolphins game was incredible. And if they do replace Glasgow with Muti (because he can be a forceful down blocker), they should run some variation of power G where Cush is pulling outside the TE instead of the play side Guard or just pull both of them and let Beck chop the DT although it’d probably have to come off counter action to get the timing right and at the point may take too long to develop. Could also do some wham with Fant taking out a DT and Cush releasing to the second level, probably even some trap stuff. Sam knows better than I, but I think it’d be a mistake to not get Cush out pulling in the run game and even though centers generally aren’t the main guys pulling, it can create an interesting challenge for defenses since they don’t see it nearly as often.

                                James is still the biggest question mark IMO. Injuries aside, he’s not a great run blocker. He’s serviceable but he’s much better at pass blocking. This team needs a run game that can sustain drives and James may not be the best option for that. Lock is at his best under center in 21 and 22 formations. Shurmur has to fight the urge to show off the shiny toys he has at WR and commit to allowing Lock and the offense to lean on the ground game and play action off of it.
                                Remains to be seen if Andrew Beck makes the team. He was on IR for six games last year and had Covid in July, so he has had some recent issues. In the event he is on the team, he's pretty handy because he can line up at Fullback depth, off as an H-Back or tight as Y, and motion to and from all of them. Fullbacks/H-Backs are rare coming out of college, but they aren't sought after, so can be signed as UDFAs like Beck was.

                                Netane Muti seems to have recovered from the injuries he had in college. He and Risner can both down block and pull, probably better than Glasgow who might be a better pass blocker. O-Line coaches' rule of thumb is start the best five and shuffle them to their best spots. If one of them can't go, bring in number six and reshuffle, if necessary. It's possible Muti could practice/play his way into the five, but for now he's probably number six. We shall see. If Risner is "Route 66", Muti could become "Model 52 pancake machine".

                                If I'm not mistaken, Lloyd Cushenberry had all the offensive snaps last year something no one else can say, so he's durable and got a ton of experience as a rookie. He's smart and does have agility, so he can pull. IMO his greatest challenge is to block a nasty NFL 0 tech one on one. If he can do that, he's on his way to a long career as a starting C.

                                Haven't seen a Tackle who could consistently deliver an authoritative down block since Orlando Franklin. Think Garrett could do a good job, but like you I'm skeptical about Ja"Wuan James being a good run blocker. Speaking of Wham, weak side Wham (aka Wham G) is a pretty nasty play to run from the I especially against a split front. Split side T blocks down on 3 tech, G fold blocks behind that to get the 5/9 tech and FB leads through the hole.

                                Don't see Trap plays hardly anymore in the NFL. It used to be common to Trap DTs or Inside/Middle Backers, but can't recall seeing that in an age. If Trap is going to be used at all nowadays, a DE or OLB is more likely to be the trapee. It ends up looking just like a kickout block which it probably is. Muti lit a DB up on that last year. Always wanted to see Rob Ninkovich blocked like that, because he was such a pest and needed a good syrupy pancake to settle him down. Guard hole Trap is a beautiful play when run well, but it takes a lot of practice reps to choreograph all the moving parts in a tight space. Ball usually ends up on the ground early in the learning process.
                                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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