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  • #61
    Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
    TL is going to be a bust
    Agreed.....not as bad a baker. But not what people think he will be.
    We could have had Lamar Jackson *LJ for M.V.P*

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    • #62
      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
      Chemistry is lacking, so far. Bolles and Risner only played together last year and their cohesion seems to be developing. No Spring Practice or preseason games didn't help Cushenberry. He's a rookie and he will improve. Glasgow is new as well. The only way to get cohesion/chemistry it to keep the same five together.

      However, after last year and this season, so far, never thought Wilkinson was a starting T. Maybe in a pinch, but not week after week. If he and "Route 66" were switched, the question would be whether Wilkinson can pull. On a line that angle blocks, one generally wants the right side including the C to be good down blockers, and the LG should be able to pull to the opposite TE hole and get there before the RB on G Power or Sweep. Eli had seven starts at RG in 2018 and did OK. Can't remember if he ever pulled from that spot.

      The shuffle that would affect O-Line chemistry/cohesion the least would be to try Demar Dotson at RT. That move seems more likely than swapping RT/LG. If Shurmur wants to throw more, and if Dotson is a better pass blocker than Wilkinson, we may see that switch. Dotson might need Vannett next to him all the time for run blocking.

      IMO a more balanced attack is needed. In week one, when Denver was on the GL and needed to score in short yardage, they lined up in Tight Wing I Left. Vannett was tight left, Butt was Wing and Beck was 20/Fullback. Butt and Vannett blocked down, Beck kicked out and Dalton pulled and led. Thought that should have been the formation on 3rd & 2 against Pitt last week IMO.

      All of the I formations offer a whole series of angle blocked run plays. Single Back formations (12/13 personnel with H-Back) offer lots, too. Can't remember the last time I saw an NFL team run Guard hole Trap. That takes a lot of practice reps because it's so tight and quick the ball can end up on the ground. Need a quick FB for it. Line up Lindsay as the 20/FB in the I with Gordon as 30/Tailback. Against a split front, you trap the play side DT. Against an odd front, you trap the play side inside backer. Also, Off Tackle, Wham the B gap on tight side and Wham G the weak side and Sweep.

      A balanced attack with a lot of angle blocked run plays accomplishes several things: it allows the O-Line to fire out and hit; it sets up PAP; and, it keeps D off balance, because if half the plays are run and all the pass attempts are play action, the O-Line steps the D reads all look like run plays. Against a blitzing defense a balanced attack gets them out of blitz mode and punishes them physically. If I'm going three and out, I'd rather do it running the ball than throwing passes all or most of which are incomplete. At least the O-Line would get to do some hitting and the clock would keep running.

      In the event Risner was put at RT, chemistry with Bolles would be different anyway. So, instead of Wilkinson to LG, how about put a real hitter in there - Netane Muti. If he can stay healthy, he'll be a G eventually. That may not happen this year, but it's a thought. I think this O-Line needs to be given the opportunity to fire out and hit. Let them get in the kitchen and make some pancakes. Balanced attack would also help the backup QBs and would be nice for Buzz, too, when he returns. O-Line frustrations are often solved by a generous dose of hitting.
      Muti at LG is an interesting option but he plays wild and will draw penalties, probably both ways though. His pass blocking needs work but his sheer strength and aggression can win him battles. I worry about pancakes being called as holding now, seems like every time I see one there’s a flag not too far off.

      I will say I do think they want to groom Muti into a starter and he could play either RG spot, but it’s strange because they drafted Cush (who will be good) and signed Glasgow so where does Muti fit? He’s definitely not a OT unless you’re installing a extremely run heavy offense. Risner has OT experience and with how little attention was paid to OT, it leads me to believe that once they think Muti is ready to play, Risner will get moved to RT. I think they were hoping to groom Muti for a year with James starting. But without James now the plan gets expedited. I don’t think RT is Risner’s best fit but he’d be better than Wilkinson. You add in the James opt out, I think you can make a case that he may have seen that writing on the wall, that this was going to be his last season here at that salary. Still makes no sense to cut him next season so he has no reason to restructure so worse case for him is he’s an expensive backup.

      I did forget about Muti which is why I said swap Will/Risner. Clearly Wilk is in their top 5 right now and he’s much better suited at OG even if he’s only started at RG. But yeah if that’s the plan with Muti then I expect some shuffling during the bye maybe even after the Jets game since there will be more time to prep him in the gameplan. Then by next season we’d have an oline that has played together numerous games. Assuming Bolles keeps his play up and gets the franchise tag.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
        Losing your top end talent, and signal caller is what makes the season a wash. Excuse or not, there is no way to accurately judge the roster this year.
        What about last year ? Or the year prior ? Or the one before that ? Or what about the one before that ? The constant inability to solve the problem areas of the team have again shown early in the season we are poorly built. Maybe we will win a few nothing games again towards the back end and the year which gives most people a false sense of reality. Facts are, it's always something, but again the roster Elway has put together is failing.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
          What about last year ? Or the year prior ? Or the one before that ? Or what about the one before that ? The constant inability to solve the problem areas of the team have again shown early in the season we are poorly built. Maybe we will win a few nothing games again towards the back end and the year which gives most people a false sense of reality. Facts are, it's always something, but again the roster Elway has put together is failing.
          Elway lost his coach of the future when Kubiak's health issues hit. After that he missed on VJ era, there is no denying it. The team has been rebuilding very well since that time. The reality is, Elway missed for a short period after going into an unexpected coaching change. The team has been on an upswing, I'm not counting a pandemic affected season, with a crazy amount of injuries to the top end talent a "miss" by Elway
          What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
          I don't know and I don't care

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          • #65
            Broncos offensive line dominated for second straight week in blowout loss to Tampa

            By Kyle Newman | [email protected] | The Denver Post
            PUBLISHED: September 27, 2020 at 8:13 p.m. | UPDATED: September 27, 2020 at 10:25 p.m.


            After the Broncos offensive line was dominated for a second straight week, coach Vic Fangio minced no words about how the unit’s struggles are sinking the team’s young offense.

            Fangio’s message: The blocking up front has to be better or opponents will continue to find themselves dancing in Denver’s backfield, as Tampa Bay consistently did in a 28-10 blowout of the Broncos on Sunday at Empower Field at Mile High.

            “(The Buccaneers) were bringing a lot of people,” Fangio said. “Sometimes we weren’t on the right people. I think most of the time we were, and we were either getting beat or we weren’t getting (the ball) out quick enough. It was a combination of everything. Until we solve that problem, teams are going to continue to pressure us down after down until we can make people pay for it.”

            Denver allowed six sacks and 10 quarterback hits, a performance that had Jeff Driskel on his back for much of the day. The Broncos gave up seven sacks and 19 quarterback hits last week in Pittsburgh, and right guard Graham Glasgow acknowledged the line’s inconsistencies stem from communication lines that are still forming, especially with a rookie center in Lloyd Cushenberry.

            Cushenberry was beat numerous times Sunday, including by ex-Broncos linebacker — and 2019 NFL sack champ — Shaquil Barrett for a safety in the third quarter. The team’s running backs didn’t offer much in terms of auxiliary protection throughout the game, either.

            “We’ve had a tough couple weeks here in regards to the amount of blitzes and the type of blitzes we’ve been getting,” Glasgow said. “Stuff that requires a lot of people to bump stuff up, come back, pick up guys that aren’t their guys to help make the quarterback not (under pressure). And when you’re running into that type of stuff, 10, 12, 15 times a game, that’s something that’s very tough for us and that’s something that we’re working through and getting better at.”

            The Buccaneers rushed five or more players on 30 of the Broncos’ 51 drop-backs, including were nine six-man pressures. For his part, Driskel — who was benched in favor of Brett Rypien in the fourth quarter — took responsibility for some of the sacks, as Drew Lock’s substitute consistently held onto the ball too long while under duress.

            “It’s (about) getting the ball out on time and getting it into your playmakers’ hands,” Driskel said.

            In addition to the litany of pass-protection issues, the Broncos weren’t able to get anything going on the ground, either. Denver was held to 42 yards on 14 carries, with 26 yards on eight carries from Melvin Gordon.

            The past two weeks have been a sharp drop-off since the Week 1 loss to the Titans, when the Denver offensive line allowed no sacks and five quarterback hits while the Broncos ran for 107 yards. Since sacks became an official statistic in 1982, the Broncos have allowed at least six sacks in consecutive games just twice — October 2011 (a combined 13 by Detroit and then Miami) and then the last two weeks.

            https://www.denverpost.com/2020/09/2...-by-tampa-bay/

            Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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            • #66
              We have two members of the OL who on their own get beat enough to merit defenses to design blitzes to put pressure on them.

              We have RBs who are below average at helping the rush pick up.

              Saw one of our TE (87) not looking very good when pass blocking

              On top of that we have one QB who is about as bad as any NFL qb I have seen at dealing with pressure and another QB who is unable to throw the ball deep to make defenses pay for sending extra pass rushers.

              Vic has said in the past need to throw to score points.

              Now if you are a DC and you add all that up...plus the other not as obvious issues we have as an offense...what are you going to do against the Denver Offense? Send pressure....send pressure....send pressure.
              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                We have two members of the OL who on their own get beat enough to merit defenses to design blitzes to put pressure on them.

                We have RBs who are below average at helping the rush pick up.

                Saw one of our TE (87) not looking very good when pass blocking

                On top of that we have one QB who is about as bad as any NFL qb I have seen at dealing with pressure and another QB who is unable to throw the ball deep to make defenses pay for sending extra pass rushers.

                Vic has said in the past need to throw to score points.

                Now if you are a DC and you add all that up...plus the other not as obvious issues we have as an offense...what are you going to do against the Denver Offense? Send pressure....send pressure....send pressure.
                something they talked about on the radio this morning is why didn't Fangio/Shurmur change things up better. They knew after last week and early this past game they were having blocking issues so why didn't they switch from the base 11 personnel to 12 or 21 to slow down the rush. 22 would have been a good choice too considering Fant is one of the top receiving option anyway.
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                • #68
                  According to the stats I see, we've made 4 sacks - tied for 26th, but given up 13 - tied for 30th. Those are not a good sign, on either side.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by the0rangecrush View Post
                    Elway lost his coach of the future when Kubiak's health issues hit. After that he missed on VJ era, there is no denying it. The team has been rebuilding very well since that time. The reality is, Elway missed for a short period after going into an unexpected coaching change. The team has been on an upswing, I'm not counting a pandemic affected season, with a crazy amount of injuries to the top end talent a "miss" by Elway
                    I see excuse after excuse after excuse to prop up a man who has now more than likely led the organization to 4 straight losing seasons. You can argue the little details here or there, corona, sick coach, etc. but every team has adversity. The last time we had back to back losing seasons was the 70's, Elway has doubled that prestigious honor over the last 4 years alone, those are the facts, or the results, and all the other feel good stuff a fan wants to tell themselves means nothing. The biggest issue within that though, the same problem areas today, are the same ones we had 4 years ago. And forget hindsight, every off-season it is blatantly obvious that they weren't fixed, and here we are again. Offensive line, the entire middle of the defense, and quarterback. Hey, at least we drafted heaps of fast guys

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                      something they talked about on the radio this morning is why didn't Fangio/Shurmur change things up better. They knew after last week and early this past game they were having blocking issues so why didn't they switch from the base 11 personnel to 12 or 21 to slow down the rush. 22 would have been a good choice too considering Fant is one of the top receiving option anyway.
                      This is where Shurmur is really letting us down imo

                      He is an experienced coach. I kept hearing in "training camp" we are struggling at pass protection.

                      Pitt has a good front and we should have been ready...we were not.

                      TB has been blitzing more than any other team in some situations...we should have been ready and we were not.

                      Shurmur and Munchak are not earning their paychecks imo
                      Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                        This is where Shurmur is really letting us down imo

                        He is an experienced coach. I kept hearing in "training camp" we are struggling at pass protection.

                        Pitt has a good front and we should have been ready...we were not.

                        TB has been blitzing more than any other team in some situations...we should have been ready and we were not.

                        Shurmur and Munchak are not earning their paychecks imo
                        That criticism of Shurmur is fair, he needs to make adjustments, and I have been disappointed in this mostly. However, Munchak is working with scraps man, he isn't a miracle worker. Bolles is our best offensive lineman, Bolles. Risner and Glasgow look out of sorts, Cushenberry doesn't look ready, and don't even get me started on that right tackle position. We need talent in that group, have done for years, but we keep ignoring it and we are here again. The offensive line group is just bad.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                          something they talked about on the radio this morning is why didn't Fangio/Shurmur change things up better. They knew after last week and early this past game they were having blocking issues so why didn't they switch from the base 11 personnel to 12 or 21 to slow down the rush. 22 would have been a good choice too considering Fant is one of the top receiving option anyway.
                          When we drafted Albert O and I got to look at his plays a bit, and then read about his experience with Lock, I really wanted to see some 2WR/2TE/1RB sets. Albert O still hasn't happened but we do have Butt to play the same role. We also have Vannett to swap in for more of a presence on the LOS. From what I understand the OC likes to put WR's out there. He'd rather go 3 WR than 2 TE. From what I've seen he would rather pressure the D with a route than protect the O with a blocker. That's great if it works. It's not working though. Gimme my 2WR/2TE/1RB sets.

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                          • #73
                            I mentioned this elsewhere but it's also appropriate to post here.

                            The offensive line isn't great, and at times has been awful. But when you run 11-personnel pretty much every down and give no illusion that you want to run the football - in addition to the fact that your team is decimated by injuries - then it's going to look worse than it actually is. Most of the sacks & hits we've given up over the last couple of games has been the linebacker getting to the quarterback untouched or close to it.

                            Again, I'm not saying the offensive line is elite or anything like that. But there are things the coaching staff could be doing to put them in better position to protect the quarterback and they're choosing not to do it.
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                            • #74
                              Wilkinson now on IR...
                              sigpic

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                                Wilkinson now on IR...
                                Injured body or hurt feeling?

                                Sorry, that's not fair. I hope he recovers well and becomes a great tackle.

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