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Is our defense better-or worse than last season?

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  • Is our defense better-or worse than last season?

    It seems that there are plenty of fans out there who remain skeptical of our recent roster moves.
    I think that the management made an instant upgrade to our defense with the Droughns trade and the signing of Courtney Brown.
    Alot of people disagree with me about the defensive lineman. I think that Brown, Ekuban and Warren will perform much better in Denver than in Cleveland. They have better support at the Linebacking position and a far better secondary here.

    I see these roster moves as a major improvement over last years anemic pass rush. Plus, we added Ian Gold. We lost Kennedy which is an improvement, like it or not, IMO. We lost Herndon, but we drafted some speed and size.

    I like our defense this year. I think that we are better than last year. I also enjoy that every other division rival sees these roster moves as negative..we're gonna sneak up on the NFL...
    I've walked these streets, a loaded six-string on my back, I play for keeps 'cause I might not make it back, I've been everywhere still I'm standin' tall, I've seen a million faces and I've rocked them all!!:salute!:

  • #2
    Oddly enough, I get the feeling that it will be about the same. Like a spinning whell in a snowstorm. Lots of energy being expended, but very little foreward motion being made.

    That is just my gut feeling.

    Everybody's gotta elevate from the norm...

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    • #3
      i totally agree that our defense is way better and i like your draft picks with the oline and the cb so yea think we havea better defense

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Jared
        Oddly enough, I get the feeling that it will be about the same. Like a spinning whell in a snowstorm. Lots of energy being expended, but very little foreward motion being made.

        That is just my gut feeling.

        I agree.

        Our defense last year was one of the best at times, and one of the worst at others. Injuries are BS, because every team goes through them, that's when you find out how good of a "team" you are.

        I see the same consistency problems next year.

        I'm not sold on our line, but the fact we kept Pryce was comforting if he can come back strong and stay healthy. I can see games where the browns' castoffs's can play great at times, and poor at other's.

        Our LB core will be awesome, but they aren't to the point as a unit where they goona be dominating games.

        Our secondary? I don't know. Lynch is one-dimensional, someone needs to fill the other safety position and I'm not sure how Walls will be after his injury. Hopefully he can come back strong.

        I will never worry about Bailey. Depsite what anyone says about the times he was burned last year, He still one of the best overall football players in the game.

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        • #5
          THey had good numbers last year as far as being in the top 5 in defense, but I think this year they have a re-vamped D. I think Pryce will have a little chip on his shoulder since he was on the trade block and no-one bit. He will be out to prove he is healthy and a force to be reckoned with. As for Brown and Ekuban, these guys were 1st round draft picks a couple of years ago and dont have many miles on their legs yet so they will be ready to go also knowing the LB's behind them WATCHING THE MIDDLE. Ekuban had 8 sacks last year by himself because he was playing with a pieced-together line.

          It will all start up front and if they can pressure the QB, then the turnovers will increase and a little less pressure off the O.

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          • #6
            Last year, we didn't have Gold. Walls, Pryce, and Ellis were injured for most of the year. C. Brown wasn't here--and I don't care a hoot about the naysayers and boobirds; Brown was a load when he was healthy. Moreover, the Dline has gained about 20 - 30 pounds a man. D.J. Williams is probably being forced over to what will prove his best positon: locking down TEs and possession receivers with his great size plus speed. Bailey and Lynch have been here a year and are wholly oriented into the program. If the outrageous promise of this defense is fulfilled, Denver will have the number one defense in the NFL. I know, I know: there's that big word "IF." However, EVERYTHING is a big fat IF before the season starts. So they get the benefit of the doubt from this corner.

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            • #7
              Well, first off, let me cast my perspective on this situation.....


              The mantra for this season will be the same as last year. "As the pass rush goes, so goes our team".

              Facts
              1) Courtney Brown is NOT a pass rusher. He has never had more then 6 sacks in a season. Brown is basically an injury prone version of Trevor Pryce that plays the run a tad bit better. If healthy, he should equal the Palepoi/Coleman combo we had working last season that was pretty effective with 47 tackles and 5.5 sacks.

              2) Gerrard Warren is NOT a pass rusher. He'll get between 4-6 sacks and collapse the pocket effectively as a nose tackle should. However, he cant do it alone, and he's going to have to since we have absolutely no pass rushing DTs. There is no excuse for having 18 tackles in an entire season either. That's just pathetically bad.

              3) Our current collective "Under" tackles stats for last season: 31 tackles, 3 sacks. (D. Davis, M. Pope, L. Ellis). Kevin Williams of Minnesota alone? 70 tackles, 12 sacks. Pray to God we go to a 3-4 defense b/c all we have on our roster are 3-4 DEs and NTs. We actually went backwards here with the loss of Ellis Johnson.

              4) Ekuban, who's best season BEFORE last year was in 2000 when he had 29 tackles and 6.5 sacks. Last year he put up 39 tackles and 8 sacks. At best, he 75% replaces Reggie Heyward. Spinning wheels here. We will need him and a spinally injured Trevor Pryce combined just to equal Heyward's production.


              There is very little pass rush on that line even if the ALL the Browns stay healthy and play to their potential. Brown is a strongside end and Warren is a nose tackle. Neither are pass rushers. Pryce is on his last legs (if his nerves even allow him to feel them this time), and we have nobody at the very important Under (Rush) DT position.


              The LBs are improved somewhat. Ian Gold is a great playmaker and brings tremendous coverage skills, but he does not have Williams' run stuffing strength. Williams is now on the strongside where he will be off fooling with the TE instead of trying to stuff the run, which is by far his best quality. If the team was smart, they'd flip him and Wilson around.


              The secondary is going to get torched with no pass rush. We have a slew of rookies for depth in case of injuries and we still are starting Lynch who is a complete liability in pass coverage. Ferguson may or may not play up to the level Kennedy did last season, which was pretty good for once. The secondary obviously got worse with the defections of Kenoy and Kelly. Even if Champ plays like a great corner this next season and Walls stays healthy, with no pass rush, those boys don't have a prayer of covering anybody for any extended amount of time. And with all the great O-lines we will be playing, it's not looking good.


              My stance for this season is that we do not have the pass rush ability to cover up for our weak secondary with at least one safety who is a liability in coverage and possibly two. We are also 1 injury away from a possible rookie playing significant time as a starter or nickel back. That's bad. If we switch to the 3-4 to take advantage of our LBs and hide our poor DTs, then we have a prayer. if we stay with the 4-3, we are in for a long season.

              Comment


              • #8
                The defense is better this year.

                Take it by position.

                Free safety will be Ferguson. I think nearly everyone agrees Kennedy and Lynch together were great at stopping the run but not so great in pass coverage. I look for Ferguson to bring some needed balance to the pass defense. Ferguson will get more interceptions this year than both are safeties togehter last year. If you're saying that's not very many, that's my point exactly.

                Strong safety will be Lynch. This is John's natural position, and the one he is best suited to play. Just moving him from FS to SS will be a big improvement. No idea what Shanny was thinking agreeing to play John at FS.

                Cornerbacks.
                Walls was out almost the entire year last year, and is a potential pro bowl player. I really think Bailey and Walls will be something special together.
                For a 3rd cornerback (in case of injury) we'll miss Kelly Herndon, but Willie Middlebrooks was coming on strong before his injury last year, and is more than adequate. If nothing else we have a ton of new talent waiting in the wings.
                Put Darrent Williams in at nickel back and we're set.
                Best of all with all the new additions we have just an incredible amount of depth here. This has killed us the last two playoffs. I don't know how anyone can be that shocked with our draft this year. We've lost to the Colts two years straight because of lack of depth in the secondary (even with four quality cornerbacks). So if it takes six, so be it. Do we really want to go into another year with only four?

                Linebackers.
                We have more than enough talent here. Ian Gold is an immense upgrade over last year. (Sorry Spragan and Shykes fans). Two things Gold is really good at is pass coverage and getting turn overs, problem areas last year.

                DT.
                Gerard Warren is a big upgrade over anything we had there last year.
                Luther Ellis was not suprisingly hurt almost all of last year, with a little luck . . . ok probably too much to ask. Gerard Warren alone will be a big improvement though.

                DE.
                Trevor Pryce and Courtney Brown together. I can't believe someone thinks that our line was better last year with Reggie Hayward than with these two together this year. In addition we have Ekuban, who would start for almost any other team in the NFL. This unit has a chance at being very good if only two stay healthy, and even better than that if all three remain healthy.

                Well that's my two cents. OK maybe three, it was a little long winded.
                Just be thankful today's not a Monday after a Broncos loss.

                Comment


                • #9
                  4th best in nfl

                  Originally posted by Jared
                  Oddly enough, I get the feeling that it will be about the same. Like a spinning whell in a snowstorm. Lots of energy being expended, but very little foreward motion being made.

                  That is just my gut feeling.
                  i'd be really glad if our defense stayed fourth best in the nfl again. the only thing we need to improve our defense is with turnovers.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    All I know is the defense as it was in 2004, did not work...so any change whatsoever gives us the chance it will be more effective in 2005. If we kept the D-line in tact for example, we'd be no better for sure...at least this way we got a chance.
                    "Man, I thought this was just a picture or something!"

                    -John Elway
                    As he held the Vince Lombardi trophy in the lockeroom following Super Bowl XXXII

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cowboy Bob
                      The defense is better this year.

                      Take it by position.

                      Free safety will be Ferguson. I think nearly everyone agrees Kennedy and Lynch together were great at stopping the run but not so great in pass coverage. I look for Ferguson to bring some needed balance to the pass defense. Ferguson will get more interceptions this year than both are safeties togehter last year. If you're saying that's not very many, that's my point exactly.

                      Strong safety will be Lynch. This is John's natural position, and the one he is best suited to play. Just moving him from FS to SS will be a big improvement. No idea what Shanny was thinking agreeing to play John at FS.

                      Cornerbacks.
                      Walls was out almost the entire year last year, and is a potential pro bowl player. I really think Bailey and Walls will be something special together.
                      For a 3rd cornerback (in case of injury) we'll miss Kelly Herndon, but Willie Middlebrooks was coming on strong before his injury last year, and is more than adequate. If nothing else we have a ton of new talent waiting in the wings.
                      Put Darrent Williams in at nickel back and we're set.
                      Best of all with all the new additions we have just an incredible amount of depth here. This has killed us the last two playoffs. I don't know how anyone can be that shocked with our draft this year. We've lost to the Colts two years straight because of lack of depth in the secondary (even with four quality cornerbacks). So if it takes six, so be it. Do we really want to go into another year with only four?

                      Linebackers.
                      We have more than enough talent here. Ian Gold is an immense upgrade over last year. (Sorry Spragan and Shykes fans). Two things Gold is really good at is pass coverage and getting turn overs, problem areas last year.

                      DT.
                      Gerard Warren is a big upgrade over anything we had there last year.
                      Luther Ellis was not suprisingly hurt almost all of last year, with a little luck . . . ok probably too much to ask. Gerard Warren alone will be a big improvement though.

                      DE.
                      Trevor Pryce and Courtney Brown together. I can't believe someone thinks that our line was better last year with Reggie Hayward than with these two together this year. In addition we have Ekuban, who would start for almost any other team in the NFL. This unit has a chance at being very good if only two stay healthy, and even better than that if all three remain healthy.

                      Well that's my two cents. OK maybe three, it was a little long winded.

                      Dude whatever your smoking pass it on down. D Williams 5'8 170 pounds is your answer at Nickel CB. How is he going to match up to R Curry 6'2 220 .

                      T pryce (in his prime) has never done anything against the Raiders and now the guy seen better days(good luck)

                      I think Broncos showed there hand in draft. They know they can't compete next year in AFc West and are looking forward to 2006(Reason they made that trade with Redskins) Next year a very deep Oline draft(that going to help Broncos alot)
                      READ BETWEEN THE LINES. Your FO knows this is not the year for Broncos. Wait up anjd smell the coffee.
                      http://www.raiders.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/ALELCOFJPHFH/112804gallery-sp10.jpg

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                      • #12
                        if i do recall two years ago when we played you Trevor Pryce got a sack on the first play of the game

                        thanx to TMHG

                        Atwater makes the hit
                        Woodson makes the pick
                        Lott takes it back


                        All for respect this is how the game should be played

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Big Bad John
                          It seems that there are plenty of fans out there who remain skeptical of our recent roster moves.
                          I think that the management made an instant upgrade to our defense with the Droughns trade and the signing of Courtney Brown.
                          Alot of people disagree with me about the defensive lineman. I think that Brown, Ekuban and Warren will perform much better in Denver than in Cleveland. They have better support at the Linebacking position and a far better secondary here.

                          I see these roster moves as a major improvement over last years anemic pass rush. Plus, we added Ian Gold. We lost Kennedy which is an improvement, like it or not, IMO. We lost Herndon, but we drafted some speed and size.

                          I like our defense this year. I think that we are better than last year. I also enjoy that every other division rival sees these roster moves as negative..we're gonna sneak up on the NFL...

                          JUst answer this question. Your not worried that Romeo Crennel who specialty is defensiveline, couldn't get rid of those same Defensivelineman(you wanted) faster. I would be very afraid.
                          I love how all those defensivelineman will play better with a better supporting cast around them. Heard that before with J plummer. How did that one work out. Go ash Shannon Sharpe.
                          http://www.raiders.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/ALELCOFJPHFH/112804gallery-sp10.jpg

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by HaroldWoods41SS
                            if i do recall two years ago when we played you Trevor Pryce got a sack on the first play of the game
                            Going off memory, I say you are wrong. T Pryce has done nothing against the Raiders.(thats when he was good) Do you really think R gallery will even break a sweat against him.
                            http://www.raiders.com/uploads/photos/perm/main/ALELCOFJPHFH/112804gallery-sp10.jpg

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Raiderjoe
                              Dude whatever your smoking pass it on down. D Williams 5'8 170 pounds is your answer at Nickel CB. How is he going to match up to R Curry 6'2 220 .

                              T pryce (in his prime) has never done anything against the Raiders and now the guy seen better days(good luck)

                              I think Broncos showed there hand in draft. They know they can't compete next year in AFc West and are looking forward to 2006(Reason they made that trade with Redskins) Next year a very deep Oline draft(that going to help Broncos alot)
                              READ BETWEEN THE LINES. Your FO knows this is not the year for Broncos. Wait up anjd smell the coffee.
                              First, the phrase is "wake up and smell the coffee." Second, Williams is 180 pounds. Third, cornerbacks cover receivers larger than themselves all the time. Fourth, that trade was made because the Broncos didn't think anybody they really wanted would be available by our pick AND because the value we got has the potential to be phenomenal (and will still be great even if the 'Skins win the Super Bowl). Fifth, proposing that the Broncos have given up on '05 is complete and utter Raiduh stupidity.

                              Originally posted by Raiderjoe
                              JUst answer this question. Your not worried that Romeo Crennel who specialty is defensiveline, couldn't get rid of those same Defensivelineman(you wanted) faster. I would be very afraid.
                              I love how all those defensivelineman will play better with a better supporting cast around them. Heard that before with J plummer. How did that one work out. Go ash Shannon Sharpe.
                              We can't know entirely what was behind Crennel's motivation for the various moves. Brown they actually wanted to re-sign but the Broncos outbid them (risky because of his injury history). The Browns wanted Droughns (now a potential holdout ) and traded a couple of decent linemen that didn't fit the new scheme and also had contracts coming due pretty soon. Warren is the only one that really worries me because he has simply underachieved to this point in his career.

                              Having said all of that, I still have my reservations about our defensive line and our depth at cornerback. I don't want any rookies being forced into critical spots like Roc was last season.

                              I will simply have to wait and see how all these changes work out once the team hits the field. And really, Raiderschmoe, you should know that by now yourself considering how completely inept you proved yourself to be after assessing the teams last season.
                              "You can't take the sky from me..."
                              ------
                              "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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