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  • Passing on First Down..... AGAIN!

    It happened again. Last week I pleaded for Shanahan to run the ball on first down. In a critical part of the game, deep in their own end, and after a run of 9 yards by Portis on the previous 1st down, the Broncos pass on first down. We all know what happened, Kanell threw a pick and the game was over after that.

    Ball control and clock management is a non-factor to the coaches.

    The coaches need to take into consideration the field position of the team and clock management.

    I contend that the Broncos would win more games by running the ball on first down, especially in their own zone.

    Also, by passing the ball as often as the Broncos do, they easily give the other team at least 2 more possessions per game.

    By running the ball, especially on first down, the clock runs, the Broncos defense is off the field, and the game is over sooner, meaning the other team has fewer opportunities.

    Before you dismiss this theory, why not try it once!! And with Plummer and Burlein out, what better time!!!!

    Run Portis, Run Portis..... Run Anderson, Run Griffin and then run the reverse with Rod!!

    We've got one of the best runners in the game in Portis. And when you say you have to strectch the field to make it work...well, that HASN'T worked!!

    Try it my way one time and let's see. At least get a coach involved in clock management. At least run the ball to rest your defense and shorten the game.

  • #2
    Re: Passing on First Down..... AGAIN!

    Originally posted by broncodevil
    It happened again. Last week I pleaded for Shanahan to run the ball on first down. In a critical part of the game, deep in their own end, and after a run of 9 yards by Portis on the previous 1st down, the Broncos pass on first down. We all know what happened, Kanell threw a pick and the game was over after that.

    Ball control and clock management is a non-factor to the coaches.

    The coaches need to take into consideration the field position of the team and clock management.

    I contend that the Broncos would win more games by running the ball on first down, especially in their own zone.

    Also, by passing the ball as often as the Broncos do, they easily give the other team at least 2 more possessions per game.

    By running the ball, especially on first down, the clock runs, the Broncos defense is off the field, and the game is over sooner, meaning the other team has fewer opportunities.

    Before you dismiss this theory, why not try it once!! And with Plummer and Burlein out, what better time!!!!

    Run Portis, Run Portis..... Run Anderson, Run Griffin and then run the reverse with Rod!!

    We've got one of the best runners in the game in Portis. And when you say you have to strectch the field to make it work...well, that HASN'T worked!!

    Try it my way one time and let's see. At least get a coach involved in clock management. At least run the ball to rest your defense and shorten the game.
    I only read the first line of your post, but I agree wholeheartedly. Shanahan has refused to modify the gameplan since Plummer went down and we have suffered for it. Clock management is his achilles heel, refusing to let it run.
    Last edited by RunByDesign; 10-31-2003, 09:42 PM.
    Originally posted by boltzpride619
    What's so funny is seeing all this mess that the Donks and the fans have placed on themselves. Can you say Raiders.

    Originally posted by RunByDesign
    True comedy is observing the Self Imploding Organization that is the Raiders and then asking yourself this question:

    What separates them (Raiders) from us (Chargers)

    Answer: Championships.

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    • #3
      Ok....I will have to defend Shanny for this one.

      if you look at the defense....you see them stack 5 guys on th eline of first down OR you see their linebackers cheating towards the front...so the Broncos are forced to pass.

      If they complete the pass ([email protected]@!) It will be for a good gain because all the linebackers are still close to the line.

      Once completions happens....you will see linebackers back off and then Clinton can go to work!


      Have a question for me? "Ask AO" A Non-Feedback Thread. You'll be glad you did!

      2003, 2009 Fantasy League Champion!
      2006, 2010 Fantasy League Runner-up

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      • #4
        reply

        I am talking not only of last week's game, but the last 5 years!

        They have continually passed on first down deep in their own territory and have had bad things happen.

        I know about stacking guys in the box. I don't care if there is 8 in the box. The previous first down got 9 yards!

        My point is if they pound the ball, the clock runs, the defense is off the field, the opponents get fewer possessions and oh, by the way, maybe they can get a first down by running 3 times.

        They have never tried it and they continually prove me right by having what they do not work time and time again.

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        • #5
          Re: Passing on First Down..... AGAIN!

          Originally posted by broncodevil
          It happened again. Last week I pleaded for Shanahan to run the ball on first down. In a critical part of the game, deep in their own end, and after a run of 9 yards by Portis on the previous 1st down, the Broncos pass on first down. We all know what happened, Kanell threw a pick and the game was over after that.

          Ball control and clock management is a non-factor to the coaches.

          The coaches need to take into consideration the field position of the team and clock management.

          I contend that the Broncos would win more games by running the ball on first down, especially in their own zone.

          Also, by passing the ball as often as the Broncos do, they easily give the other team at least 2 more possessions per game.

          By running the ball, especially on first down, the clock runs, the Broncos defense is off the field, and the game is over sooner, meaning the other team has fewer opportunities.

          Before you dismiss this theory, why not try it once!! And with Plummer and Burlein out, what better time!!!!

          Run Portis, Run Portis..... Run Anderson, Run Griffin and then run the reverse with Rod!!

          We've got one of the best runners in the game in Portis. And when you say you have to strectch the field to make it work...well, that HASN'T worked!!

          Try it my way one time and let's see. At least get a coach involved in clock management. At least run the ball to rest your defense and shorten the game.
          First of all, if you run on first down the defense WILL catch on and start playing the run much harder on every first down. Passing on first down helps loosen the rushing defense on future first downs. Plus, the run is usually a little more expected on first down than the pass so hopefully the defense is more susceptible to the pass.

          Secondly, if you're behind as the Broncos were when Kanell threw his pick, you don't necessarily WANT to run time off the clock.

          Third, if you go 3-and-out passing the ball, the defense gets exactly the same amount of rest in REAL time as if you go 3-and-out running the ball. The only difference is the clock. And again, do you really to run more time off the clock when you're behind on the scoreboard?

          First Drive, first down: Portis for -1 yard
          Second Drive, first down: Smith reverse for 2 yards, Portis for 11, Portis for 4, Portis for 3 (Best drive for running on first down)
          Third Drive, first down: Portis for 2 yards, Portis for 1 yard
          Fourth Drive, first down: No runs
          Fifth Drive, first down: Portis for -2 yards
          Sixth Drive, first down: Portis for 5 yards, Portis for 15, Portis for -3, Portis for -4 yards
          Seventh Drive, first down: No runs
          Eighth Drive, first down: Portis for 5 yards, Portis for 3, Portis for 9
          --Now they're in mostly passing mode because of score and time
          Ninth Drive, first down: Portis for 1 yard
          The game is essentially over and it's almost all passing now

          So, on their first 9 drives than ran on first down 16 times for about a 3.2 yard average. Not exactly dominating. They had a few good runs; 5 were for 5 yards or more yards but 8 were for 2 yards or fewer and 4 of those were for negative yardage.

          Including one last minute of the game run on first down, the Broncos ran on 17 out of 24 first downs. They need to run in MORE on first down???
          "You can't take the sky from me..."
          ------
          "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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          • #6
            Really, I don't care what play they do on which down, just as long as they get 1st downs and TD's!! But, I wouldn't really want them to do a running play on 3rd and 10!!

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            • #7
              I agree bronco devil....

              Several games come into question especially last year he picked a pass play when denver should have ran and wasted some clock. Clock management and ball control has not been shanahan's strong suit since terrel left. That's has to get better this year or denver won't make the playoffs.
              Bronco fan 33 years and counting, GO BRONCOS!

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              • #8
                reply

                I know last year that if they would have run the ball in the Colts game, they win that game, have one more victory and make the playoffs.

                And running the ball 3 times takes longer than 3 passing plays in real time. Also, the clock continues to run and gives fewer opportunities at the end of the game. The Ravens used those extra possessions and scored late in the game.

                And heck yes, when you're down 9-6 you want to control the ball, let the clock run, put on a good drive and score to tie or go ahead with less time on the clock at the end.

                I know all about the defense and reacting to it. But many times the Broncos come out with an empty backfield, with not even a threat to run, inside their own 20 yard line. The defense knows that they are going to pass.

                I appreciate the look at the statistics. 3.2 is not a bad average. It was interesting to see that on some drives they didn't run at all.

                You multiply :25 - :30 for some of those incompletions and the game is over sooner. In many losses in the past 5 years, they would have won games they lost if they left less time for the other teams.

                Lastly, what they are doing now, with passing on first down, AIN"T WORKIN!!!

                I just want them to try and run it more, especially on first down, in their own end of the field.

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                • #9
                  Re: reply

                  Originally posted by broncodevil
                  I know last year that if they would have run the ball in the Colts game, they win that game, have one more victory and make the playoffs.

                  And running the ball 3 times takes longer than 3 passing plays in real time. Also, the clock continues to run and gives fewer opportunities at the end of the game. The Ravens used those extra possessions and scored late in the game.

                  And heck yes, when you're down 9-6 you want to control the ball, let the clock run, put on a good drive and score to tie or go ahead with less time on the clock at the end.

                  I know all about the defense and reacting to it. But many times the Broncos come out with an empty backfield, with not even a threat to run, inside their own 20 yard line. The defense knows that they are going to pass.

                  I appreciate the look at the statistics. 3.2 is not a bad average. It was interesting to see that on some drives they didn't run at all.

                  You multiply :25 - :30 for some of those incompletions and the game is over sooner. In many losses in the past 5 years, they would have won games they lost if they left less time for the other teams.

                  Lastly, what they are doing now, with passing on first down, AIN"T WORKIN!!!

                  I just want them to try and run it more, especially on first down, in their own end of the field.
                  I understand what you're saying. And considering Danny Kanell is no John Elway or even Jake Plummer I can understand it even more in the Broncos current situation.

                  But I think we differ on our opinion of Shanahan. I know his style doesn't suit everyone but I personally take the good with the bad.

                  In most cases, I really enjoy the way he plays counter to what the defense might be expecting. I love when a defense is set up to defend the run and the tailback suddenly sprints out of the backfield to line up as a receiver. I love it on first and 10 deep in their on territory and the QB fakes the handoff and runs a naked bootleg looking for that man-to-man coverage down the field. I love how hard Shanahan and his staff work to find ways of creating mismatches against the opposing defenses.

                  And I know that the plays don't always work. And I know that sometimes there's a price to pay when they don't. But I also remember how damn frustrated I used to get when Dan Reeves was calling the plays and how I could predict the play call about 90% of the time. 'Cause if I can do it, I'll bet the highly-paid defensive coordinators can do it.

                  Anyway, I don't want to bang heads with a fellow Broncos fan. I'm just expressing my faith old Shanny. Yeah, he should probably be ultra-conservative on offense until Jake gets back but I don't think that's his style. And while that style doesn't suit everybody, it suits me just fine.
                  "You can't take the sky from me..."
                  ------
                  "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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                  • #10
                    I kind of like the passingon first down. When I watched last Monday nights game, the Bill almost Constantly tried to run it every single first dowm, like clockwork. Madden & Michaels even noticed it. Henry got stuffed each time and it was then 2 & 3rd long for the Bills. The key is to mix it up, that part of the chess game, sometimes the odds are with you in certain situation, 3 and 1 usually indicates run, the offense knows this, the defense knows this, so sometime the pass is the best becuase they don't expect it. Same for first down, run or pass, mix it up and call the plays that will get good yardage, don't call draws from the backfield. A quick toss or pass in the flat might work wonders if it isn't telegraphed.

                    Shananhan has second guessed himself a few times and made some bad clock management moves and some bad play calling, but for the majority he has been on the money.
                    The Game Day Thread: Year 16 in progress!!! sigpic

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                    • #11
                      Just wanted to wish on a good game

                      I am a Pats fan and just wanted to wish you luck(not too much)on Monday.I don't know what it is but I have always respected the Broncos.They always seemed to be a team with so much heart.Anyway,just saying hello and heres to a great game for Monday Night Football and heres to nobody getting hurt...both teams need every man they have got!!!

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                      • #12
                        Hopefully no Broncos fan comes on here and spoils your friendly message with any smack talkin'.

                        Good luck to the Pats, too. But I think psychologically the Broncos need the win more than the Pats do. Obviously I hope we win regardless of who needs it more.

                        Since you said something nice about the Broncos, I'll reciprocate: The Patriots have done a great job pulling out wins despite their rash of injuries that was very similar to the Broncos. I wish we had fared that well.

                        We get a number of injured players back after our bye week and hopefully the Broncos and Pats will play again, healthy, in the playoffs. And I hope we beat you then, too.
                        "You can't take the sky from me..."
                        ------
                        "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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                        • #13
                          Good Luck

                          Nice to see a post thats not negative. I Hope too that your team does good, just not as good as my Broncos. Also I hope that we escape injury free, for both teams.

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                          • #14
                            Good luck to you too!
                            Orange/Blue Girl in L.A.

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                            • #15
                              I think Denver should have a good game tongiht, I say get the orange jerseys out =)


                              Have a question for me? "Ask AO" A Non-Feedback Thread. You'll be glad you did!

                              2003, 2009 Fantasy League Champion!
                              2006, 2010 Fantasy League Runner-up

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