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Top 50 Quarterbacks since 1970.

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  • #31
    When I think of the bomb I think of guys like Culpepper, Elway, Favre; guys with exceptionally strong arms. Marino, to me, just doesn't seem like that kind of guy.


    "When Kepler found his long-cherished belief did not agree with the most precise observation, he accepted the uncomfortable fact. He preferred the hard truth to his dearest illusions; that is the heart of science."
    - Carl Sagan

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    • #32
      Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks since 1970.

      Originally posted by dhall26
      This list was a little harder, but I did my best. Let me know what you think.

      19. Len Dawson
      IMO...........Dawson should have been left OFF this list since he didn't do much after 1970 along with Namath.

      However both would be in top 50 of all time.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by GSRelyea
        Elway def #1 but then Montanna has to be 1A. This is a very difficult list, I guess everybody would vary based on what their mindset is. I would rank QB's on wins and losses not necessarally on stats alone.
        then you discount the abilities of the surrounding players.

        young at #16?

        thats the biggest travesty.
        and joe namath is the single most overrated PLAYER in the history of ALL sports.

        he had fantastic surrounding talent, yet completed less than half his passes and threw more int's than td's in his CAREER.

        his only SUPPOSED accomplishment is his "guaranteed" win, and not much stock should be put in that since the defense and matt snell won that game.

        namath gets MINOR credit for being the first 4000 yard passer, but he really only had that one great season. warner had a couple great seasons, but im not putting him anywhere near the top 20.

        1) elway (all by himself. quite simply, there was nothing he couldnt do. he won with average teams, he was a complete player, and he retired the mvp of the most important game. at 38 he was still better than anyone else in the league. favre was close at the time.

        2) marino (skip the bogus "he didnt win the big one" argument and realize that this isnt boxing, and it takes a team to win the big one. he had porous defenses, and lousy rb's around him most of his career. he owns every major passing record there is, and though he didnt have a lick of mobility, he had the quickest release ever.

        3) young (#16 is the most amazing slap in the face ive seen in awhile. he was better than montana by quite alot, and proved it by replacing montana and still winning the big one, but having better stats doing it. he is the closest in ability to elway, but relied too heavily on the run at times and unfortuately didnt play a complete career or he'd be the only one to challenge elway.

        4) favre ( he is also a complete player, but he hasnt progressed in his aging as well as young or elway. he still makes mental mistakes, and FAR too often relies on armstrength to make throws to covered receivers instead of checking off. he makes the list at #4 (ironic) because of his skills, strength, unitas/elway like toughness, ability to lead, and ability to create.

        5-10) this is where its speculative as far as positioning, but montana (leadership and at least better than average ability), tarkenton (original amazing playmaker), and fouts (too much surrounding talent to be higher on the list, but despite lack of athleticism was a great pure passer) would be the top candidates.

        to the original poster. thanks for your post, and despite my not agreeing at all, it obviosly took some time to compose that list. this topic is just one that i have put more thought and research into than any other.

        jake

        ps- havent been posting much here lately, but this topic will never get old to me.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by AsianOrange
          I agree! Montana is definetely up there....I think Elway had too many Super Bowl losses which makes his cred a little low...so if I had to redo the top5 it would be:

          Montana
          Elway
          Marino
          Favre
          Aikman

          that is a very tough list but where is: Steve Bono?

          I think that is an accurate list, but Elway not number 1 because of Super Bowl record: 2-3 Collins should be above Culpepper because Collins been to the Super Bowl.
          are you serious asian?

          that one almost made me angry!

          are you saying trent dilfer is better than marino because he won a superbowl?

          this is NUTS. winning a superbowl is a MINOR indicator of a qb's worth, and a great indicator of a TEAMS worth.

          ....and elway gets punished for getting to the big game more times than anyone else EVER because he lost the first three?
          WOW.
          look at his surrounding team for heavens sake. they were AVERAGE.
          his first probowl wide receiver was ed mccaffrey in his 14th season.
          his runningback (winder)was a guy who NEVER even averaged FOUR yards a carry, let alone the five that portis does, and his tight end (kay) was a decent blocker with bricks for hands.

          he had the three amigos as his wr's.
          all three under 6' tall, and NOT ONE of them ever had a 1000 yard season. johnson got cut by minnesota after leaving denver (and crawled back!), nattiel got cut by TAMPA, and jackson had a couple decent seasons in new york before being cut.

          anyway, sorry for the rant but put a little more thought into who's the best besides just who has rings. thats a tired and largely irrelevant argument.

          look at it lke this. given EQUAL talent, who do you think has the best chance for success based on their abilities, intelligence, and leadership abilities, then see my list.

          jake

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          • #35
            Originally posted by AsianOrange
            Nope...for the longest time...it was always Elway in my book..but as i got older...I see Elway was awesome...but Montana made it look easy.
            GOOD GOD!!

            wrong!! rice, taylor, rathman, craig, the best o-line in football, and an offense ahead of its time made it look easy. montana simply had to drop back, eat lunch, take a nap, and throw 10 yards downfield to a wide open receiver who did the rest with his legs.

            seriously, i just diminished montana excessively, but has it occured to you WHY it looked easy?

            has it occured to you that at age 35 (three years YOUNGER than when elway retired) it didnt look easy for montana anymore in kc?

            has it occured to you that the guy who replaced montana (young) still won the superbowl, but had BETTER stats?

            come on my bronco brother. please look past the "rings" and do some real analysis. i promise youll come up with different answers.

            jake

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            • #36
              I've always thought Namath was horribly overrated as well... but he DID get the NFL into the spotlight shadowing his horrible stats.


              "When Kepler found his long-cherished belief did not agree with the most precise observation, he accepted the uncomfortable fact. He preferred the hard truth to his dearest illusions; that is the heart of science."
              - Carl Sagan

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by NameUsedBefore
                When I think of the bomb I think of guys like Culpepper, Elway, Favre; guys with exceptionally strong arms. Marino, to me, just doesn't seem like that kind of guy.
                marino's arm was better than average, but nowhere in the top ten. his release was his strongest attribute, since it covered much of his inability to scramble.

                also, arm strength should really be broke down into two categories. length, and velocity. elway is clearly #1 in velocity, and top ten (but not #1) in distance.
                belive it or not, guys like jeff george, kordell stewart, and randall cunningham can all throw the ball as far or further than elway.

                its throwing it far, hard, and ACCURATE that separated elway from these others.

                as for marino, he didnt have top ten velocity or distance, but his release and accuracy made up much of what he lacked. and dont get me wrong, marino had a great arm, just not top ten. as mentioned, a couple of the top ten distance guys (george and stewart) arent on the radar as far as overall quality qb's.

                jake

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by dhall26
                  Horseface was the Greatest, no others came close. Mr.Comeback, Mr.Crush my Chiefs dreams! I hated him, but unbiased, he was the best.
                  Elway was great for his time!
                  I wouldn't bash Steve DeBerg he was very good/tough for the teams he played with. Only person I've seen play quarterback with a taped up compound fracture on his throwing (ring finger) hand.
                  I alwasy questioned why everyone brags about the 46(?) comeback victories by J.Elway....... if he was that great why was he behind that late in the game to begin with?
                  Just a thought.
                  Maybe its like woody paige says....."Bronco fans use statistics like a drunk uses a light pole".

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by AFCWestBest
                    Elway was great for his time!

                    I alwasy questioned why everyone brags about the 46(?) comeback victories by J.Elway....... if he was that great why was he behind that late in the game to begin with?
                    Just a thought.
                    Maybe its like woody paige says....."Bronco fans use statistics like a drunk uses a light pole".
                    I will take a crack at this........... its actually 47 according to SI. To answer the question about 90% of those comebacks came during the Dan Reeves era when he had NO help and its not a big secret that he did not like Elway and therefore would never draft him any offensive help. For years Elway pleaded for a speedy receiver and a couple of hogs for the offensive line and what did Reeves do.........in 92 he passed on Carl Pickens and took UCLA sophmore QB Tommy Maddox.......to eventually replace him........what a slap in the face!!

                    You obviously have limited knowledge of Elways career or are just trying to talk shiat........either way it makes little difference.

                    I guess I have a hard time understanding what you meant by...."Elway was great for his time" ...........it dont make any difference whether its today or yesterday Elway is # 1 IMO due to what he was able to accomplish with little help. People wanna knock him for 3 Super Bowl losses but I find it rather amazing he was able to carry the entire offense like he did.........the only problem with that is eventually your luck runs out.

                    BTW I wouldn't put too much faith in ANYTHING that blow hard Woody Paige says.........he is a complete retard thats been bashing Denver, the fans and every other team in the league for at least 20 years.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Does anyone know the true length or the farthest someone could throw the football? I think Elway could launch it 85 yards; and yes, what seperated him from the other gunslingers and bombers was the fact that one, he could gunsling his way to victory and not just an INT, and two, he could bomb it and most of the time hit the guy in the numbers.


                      "When Kepler found his long-cherished belief did not agree with the most precise observation, he accepted the uncomfortable fact. He preferred the hard truth to his dearest illusions; that is the heart of science."
                      - Carl Sagan

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        We'll kill two birds with one stone....

                        ...or I should say one post.

                        First, Docs right about Elway. It's misleading to equate the 47 comebacks for Elway with a lack of greatness; as doc already pointed out the majority of those situations were set up by extremely conservative play calling by Reeves which often left us in a hole that John had to bail us out of. Had Reeves taken off the shackles and put John in an offensive environement similar to the current one his comeback count might be significantly lower and he'd have much higher career stats. Sure would have been nice to see John have the kind of tools that Montana and Marino had to work with; in the eyes of many he accomplished much greater things than they did because he simply had to do more with less.

                        As far as Nameusedbefore's question about how far someone could chuck the ball, Favre's gun (in his prime) was comparable to Johns, as was Jeff George's arm (if George would have had Johns brain and heart he would have been great). I'm not sure of the farthest any of them ever threw in a game, but I think it's a safe bet that all 3 of them could hit an ant 80 yards downfield on the fly.

                        Some other great arms that I remember were Randall Cunningham, Dan Pastorini, and Terry Bradshaw. I remember seeing all 3 of these guys consistently hit 65-70 yard throws.

                        Which reminds me - dhall, did you miss Pastorini, Steve Deberg, and Bernie Kosar by accident or deliberately leave them off?
                        Last edited by broncoforlife; 01-12-2004, 03:45 PM.

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                        • #42
                          Re: We'll kill two birds with one stone....

                          Originally posted by broncoforlife
                          ..

                          Which reminds me - dhall, did you miss Pastorini, Steve Deberg, and Bernie Kosar by accident or deliberately leave them off?
                          DeBerg did have a lot of yards, but he played for so long. Tough guy though.

                          Kosar? I don't know. He started great, but he seemed to just progressively get worse as his career went on. Very unfortunate.


                          This post was written while being thankful that I CAN taste my beer.

                          Everybody's gotta elevate from the norm...

                          The greatest list of music I don't own on CD :sad:
                          You should check these guys out

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                          • #43
                            Re: Re: We'll kill two birds with one stone....

                            Originally posted by Jared
                            DeBerg did have a lot of yards, but he played for so long. Tough guy though.

                            Kosar? I don't know. He started great, but he seemed to just progressively get worse as his career went on. Very unfortunate.


                            This post was written while being thankful that I CAN taste my beer.
                            You can taste your beer? Hey, wait a minute....

                            Actually, you've got a good point on Bernie. However, I would think that Debergs numbers rank him there. Among the top 50 all time (accoridng to the Pro Football Reference) he ranks 14th in attempts, 13th in completions, 16th in yards, and is tied for 28th in TD passes.

                            Another notable ommision I just noticed is Joe Ferguson, whose career numbers are also in the top 50 of all time. For those who aren't already familiar with the Pro Football Reference it's a great resource to help compare these guys against each other. Here's the link:

                            http://www.pro-football-reference.com/qbindex.htm
                            Last edited by broncoforlife; 01-12-2004, 04:32 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Re: Re: We'll kill two birds with one stone....

                              Originally posted by broncoforlife
                              You can taste your beer? Hey, wait a minute....

                              Actually, you've got a good point on Bernie. I would think that Debergs numbers rank him there. Among the top 50 all time (accoridng to the Pro Football Reference) he ranks 14th in attempts, 13th in completions, 16th in yards, and is tied for 28th in TD passes.

                              A couple of other guys I noticed missing are Phil Simms and Joe Ferguson, whose career numbers are also in the top 50 of all time.
                              Fergie maybe, but I though Simms WAS on there. Its a subjective list anyway.

                              In that system, he played VERY well. And that game against the Broncos in the Superbowl.....

                              ugh.....

                              But had Simms not gotten injured and had lets say three more years, he would have been considered a much more reasonable candidate for the HOF.

                              Everybody's gotta elevate from the norm...

                              The greatest list of music I don't own on CD :sad:
                              You should check these guys out

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                              • #45
                                Yeah, I missed Simms...

                                ....and couldn't get the post edited immediately. Ooops - my bad.....:o

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