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  • #16
    The head coach is ultimately responsible (apart from the owner), he has the ultimate decision on which scouts, coordinators, players etc. are brought in. Being a Coach is like any other management job, the majority of your work is done through deligation - otherwise there would be too much to do. This means a big part of your job as a coach is being able to

    1. Bring in the right staff - and notice when they're performing badly or well, removing any staff which aren't performing as you would like and promoting or re-hiring in their place.

    2. Formulate proper communcaiton and deligation channels so that you can keep track of how your staff are performing.

    3. Keep tabs on all aspects of your job so you can make informed ultimate decisions, be it on game day, draft day or FA.

    While, shanahan might not be calling the plays he should review each one he's passed. That's why he's passed them before the actual call - otherwise I don't see the point - it should be kubiak down there telling jake the call. Plus the off cord, def coord and head coach should meet each week and discuss the gameplan. That way shanahan should have the same ideas as kubiak, know the same weaknesses, strengths, etc.

    For me in the miami game the play calling lacked imagination, perhaps this was the plan, smash-mouth football against what they suspected to be a weak defense. The problem I had was the lack of adjustment - you try running up the middle twice it fails so you try something else. Only the PA to kyle johnson showed a little bit of imagination. Denver were completely out coached in Miami, they looked prepared and called imaginative plays. Denver on the other hand looked ill-prepared (that time out) and showed little imagination

    The SD game (although I didn't see it all) seems more like a defensive problem, which was rectified in the second half. The majority of the defensive problems from week 1 and 2 (from what has been released in the press) seem to be down to coyers inability to communicate relatively uncomplex defensive schemes to his players. To me that shows very bad preperation - what was training camp for? It irritates me that the players complained about this too - if they didn't understand you'd have thought they would have said so before the first regular season game??

    As for the half time talk which saved the day - I don't see how all out blitz is a good solution to a lacking defense. Sure it worked 2nd half - if we do that week in week out we'll get done everytime. Now that coyer's job seems safe for the time being I just hope that whatever problems he had communicating with the players are solved and quickly.


    -e
    In memory of Darrent Williams 1982-2007


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    "It seems like every week you click on the film and you want to roll back out of your chair and say, 'Lord help me,'" Coyer on NFL offenses

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    • #17
      Originally posted by broncsx3
      Could you *****es stop, well... *****ing?

      We lost a HALL OF FAME quarterback and have still put together 3 playoff teams. Besides the San Francisco 49'ers and Joe Montana, please show me a team that has lost a Franchise, Hall of Fame quarterback and won a Superbowl in the next five seasons.

      I'll wait here while you complainers look that up...
      Listen, I have made similar arguments myself about Shanahan. I think he's a very good coach and not as bad as people make out as a GM.

      However, as much as I like Shanny, there comes a point where doing pretty good is not enough. We need at least one playoff victory to show that we're not just stagnating.

      Obivously there is no set time limit and it basically comes down to when Bowlen decides enough is enough. Personally, I'm not chomping at the bit to get rid of Shanny but I am frustrated that we haven't really been improving over the past 5 years. But if we could just have some form of postseason success it would not only make me happy but it would quiet the vast majority of Shanny's critics.

      Of course a Super Bowl win would shut them ALL up. So, GOOO BRONCOOOS! Let's win The Big One!!!
      "You can't take the sky from me..."
      ------
      "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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      • #18
        Originally posted by rogue719
        I'm not arguing the opening drive remarks but I was one that thought that often Shanahan was calling the offense from the sideline, with assistance in the booth from Kubiak. The reason I thought that was a game last season (or the one before?) where the offense suddenly came alive and afterwards Shanahan admitted that he told Kubiak that nothing he tried was working and turned Kubiak loose with all the playcalling, as well as Griese comments after he left Denver that Shanny called the plays and that he (Griese) didn't have the ability to change the calls at the line.
        I read that remark by Shanahan and thought it was interesting that he said that.

        Sounds like a typical greasy remark. Blaming everyone but himself for failing.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Cugel
          Well I'M not one of the ones complaining about Shanahan's play calling during games. Some people have complained that he's too predictable, that he doesn't adjust his game plan well to changing conditions, etc.

          I am not one of those people. I think he's done extremely well in the initial stages of the games and quite well overall in his gameplan.

          A lot of the criticism stems from the "Indigestion in Indy" during the playoffs the last 2 years. A blowout loss will create all kinds of criticism.

          So, maybe I'm wrong about "no one" complaining about playcalling. I just don't give a lot of weight to that complaint.

          As for Shanahan's drafting. NO he's not going to be doing that Monday night.

          As for the rest of the comments that his drafting is great or O.K. I can't re-create here the 6 months of debate we've had on these boards about this subject and all the links posted and all the analysis comparing his draft picks to those of the Patriots under Belicheck and other successful teams like the Eagles, etc.

          I will only say here that it is commonly believed around the NFL that no one person can serve both as coach and GM successfully, that those jobs are too consuming for any one man to do well. Shanahan is his own GM. Ted Sundquist doesn't have any power and Shanahan makes all the final decisions about the draft. (Don't bother saying ridiculous things about how he "consults" with his GM or "asks advice" from his coaches! I'm talking who has the final power of decision when there's an honest difference of opinion. And that's Shanahan).

          That is NOT the way it is in the rest of the NFL. There GMs have real power, make all final decisions about personnel and consult with the coach as needed.

          When Shanahan was winning SBs with Elway, everybody just shook their heads and said he could get away with it because he was a football genius. Now that he hasn't won a playoff game since January 1999, they aren't so forgiving. Now it just looks like Shanahan has too much power for his own good.

          If you do it one way and the rest of the NFL does it another, then you'd better produce results that justify you going your own way. And Shanahan hasn't done it the last 6 years. So that consensus that he's his own worst enemy and that Bowlen ought to fire Shanahan the GM and keep Shanahan the coach is only going to get stronger unless he wins another Super-bowl this year.

          You hit the nail on the head with this one. Points to you.

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          • #20
            Shanahan needs to start making ALL the offensive play calls. Kubiak sucks ass anymore, and our offense is horrendous.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Javalon
              Listen, I have made similar arguments myself about Shanahan. I think he's a very good coach and not as bad as people make out as a GM.

              However, as much as I like Shanny, there comes a point where doing pretty good is not enough. We need at least one playoff victory to show that we're not just stagnating.

              Obivously there is no set time limit and it basically comes down to when Bowlen decides enough is enough. Personally, I'm not chomping at the bit to get rid of Shanny but I am frustrated that we haven't really been improving over the past 5 years. But if we could just have some form of postseason success it would not only make me happy but it would quiet the vast majority of Shanny's critics.

              Of course a Super Bowl win would shut them ALL up. So, GOOO BRONCOOOS! Let's win The Big One!!!

              I personannly think we have gotten better. considering the loss of all the HOF type players we have had. over those years.


              John, Shannon, TD and then there was Eddie mac while not HOF a solid expriendced VET that got the job done.

              This team overall is quite young and not a lot of oldtimers on the squad.

              I don't really want to see MIkey go as coach but someone needs to oversee his DAFTING. Having a really topflight GM that he could work with would do the trick. Let him Hire one that he can work with to do the skut work on contracts and player scouting. Mikey could still have the ablity to help in the who is drafted and when. But when the rubber hits the road the final SAY goes to the GM.

              BTW I still feel that mikey's EGO on his scripted plays hurts us when he does not adjust faster. The IND game was prime example we were downby 14-21 ponits before we adjusted.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by PLUMMERFAN16
                Shanahan needs to start making ALL the offensive play calls. Kubiak sucks ass anymore, and our offense is horrendous.
                Isn't that a bit harsh?

                It seems that most of the focus is on the play calling. I am very surprised nobody has addressed the "designing" of those plays.

                You design a play to make yardage in any given situation. This is a no brainer. These plays end up on a list that Kubiak looks at each and every down. You have to play a guessing game sometimes as to what the defense is going to show you and as we all know, the defensive schemes on all teams is changing all the time. Hence the word chess match.

                I like the no huddle offense because by third down, you have the D figured and that is when your designed plays are more affective IMO.
                :usa: *** God Bless Our Military Men And Women*** :usa:

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Jrhampton
                  I personannly think we have gotten better. considering the loss of all the HOF type players we have had. over those years.


                  John, Shannon, TD and then there was Eddie mac while not HOF a solid expriendced VET that got the job done.

                  This team overall is quite young and not a lot of oldtimers on the squad.

                  I don't really want to see MIkey go as coach but someone needs to oversee his DAFTING. Having a really topflight GM that he could work with would do the trick. Let him Hire one that he can work with to do the skut work on contracts and player scouting. Mikey could still have the ablity to help in the who is drafted and when. But when the rubber hits the road the final SAY goes to the GM.

                  BTW I still feel that mikey's EGO on his scripted plays hurts us when he does not adjust faster. The IND game was prime example we were downby 14-21 ponits before we adjusted.
                  I think it is fortunate that none of the folks on this thread have any say in whether Shanahan goes or stays, is GM or isn't, who he drafts or doesn't, whether he calls the plays or doesn't, etc. He has more demonstrated performance than anyone here, he's far ahead of the NFL curve on accomplishments (even lately), and (as usual) the complaints have started early on a season that has yet to be played.

                  Ya pay yer money (or not on this board ) and you have the right to complain and pontificate all ya want. Ultimately, it doesn't matter one bit. Bowlen doesn't care what you think, he thinks he's got a great coach and plans to keep him as long as Mike wants, it's hugely unlikely that Bowlen will insist he give up the GM role, and if you don't like it that just too bad. If it all becomes too much for you you can just complain some more on this board or even find another team to follow if you'd like.

                  Shanahan is what he is: a pretty good coach, maybe an average GM, ultimately pretty successful by overall standards, a strong ego, brusque, not well liked by a fair number of folks (not that it seems to bother him a bit), and probably the coach and GM of the broncos for about as long as he wants (unless Bowlen sells the team).

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Cugel
                    Well I'M not one of the ones complaining about Shanahan's play calling during games. Some people have complained that he's too predictable, that he doesn't adjust his game plan well to changing conditions, etc.

                    I am not one of those people. I think he's done extremely well in the initial stages of the games and quite well overall in his gameplan.

                    A lot of the criticism stems from the "Indigestion in Indy" during the playoffs the last 2 years. A blowout loss will create all kinds of criticism.

                    So, maybe I'm wrong about "no one" complaining about playcalling. I just don't give a lot of weight to that complaint.

                    As for Shanahan's drafting. NO he's not going to be doing that Monday night.

                    As for the rest of the comments that his drafting is great or O.K. I can't re-create here the 6 months of debate we've had on these boards about this subject and all the links posted and all the analysis comparing his draft picks to those of the Patriots under Belicheck and other successful teams like the Eagles, etc.

                    I will only say here that it is commonly believed around the NFL that no one person can serve both as coach and GM successfully, that those jobs are too consuming for any one man to do well. Shanahan is his own GM. Ted Sundquist doesn't have any power and Shanahan makes all the final decisions about the draft. (Don't bother saying ridiculous things about how he "consults" with his GM or "asks advice" from his coaches! I'm talking who has the final power of decision when there's an honest difference of opinion. And that's Shanahan).

                    That is NOT the way it is in the rest of the NFL. There GMs have real power, make all final decisions about personnel and consult with the coach as needed.

                    When Shanahan was winning SBs with Elway, everybody just shook their heads and said he could get away with it because he was a football genius. Now that he hasn't won a playoff game since January 1999, they aren't so forgiving. Now it just looks like Shanahan has too much power for his own good.

                    If you do it one way and the rest of the NFL does it another, then you'd better produce results that justify you going your own way. And Shanahan hasn't done it the last 6 years. So that consensus that he's his own worst enemy and that Bowlen ought to fire Shanahan the GM and keep Shanahan the coach is only going to get stronger unless he wins another Super-bowl this year.
                    When given the opportunity for Shanny to answer your charges, cug, did you offer them up, via the question/answer section on their website?

                    I don't know how many times it needs to be said.......by Shanny, Bowlen, Sunny, etx.....

                    The world of football does NOT revolve around Mike Shannahan. He HAS a GM in Sunny. He HAS Scouts that scout. He HAS Coordinators that coordinate.

                    Just because he has the authority to override moves/calls, doesn't mean he does it. It just gives his bashers reason to wail............
                    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                    tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                    men."

                    -- Samuel Adams

                    sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rcsodak
                      When given the opportunity for Shanny to answer your charges, cug, did you offer them up, via the question/answer section on their website?

                      I don't know how many times it needs to be said.......by Shanny, Bowlen, Sunny, etx.....

                      The world of football does NOT revolve around Mike Shannahan. He HAS a GM in Sunny. He HAS Scouts that scout. He HAS Coordinators that coordinate.

                      Just because he has the authority to override moves/calls, doesn't mean he does it. It just gives his bashers reason to wail............
                      . . . and wail and wail and wail.

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