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  • broncos_mtnman
    replied
    Originally posted by Jrhampton
    My point on their TD was looking at the rest of the stats for the day our Defense completely had them in control all day except for that short drive (yards)

    1-10-DEN32 (:58) F.Taylor left end to DEN 25 for 7 yards (J.Lynch).
    2-3-DEN25 (:29) F.Taylor up the middle to DEN 17 for 8 yards (D.Holland).
    Second Quarter
    1-10-DEN17 (15:00) L.Toefield right end to DEN 19 for -2 yards (K.Herndon).
    PENALTY on DEN-D.Holland, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 17 - No Play.
    1-10-DEN12 (14:39) F.Taylor right end to DEN 12 for no gain (K.Kennedy).
    2-10-DEN12 (13:55) G.Jones up the middle to DEN 7 for 5 yards (D.Spragan). FUMBLES (D.Spragan), recovered by JAX-B.Meester at DEN 7. B.Meester to DEN 7 for no gain (J.Lynch).
    3-5-DEN7 (13:10) (Shotgun) PENALTY on JAX-G.Wrighster, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 7 - No Play.
    3-10-DEN12 (12:46) (Shotgun) B.Leftwich pass to E.Wilford for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

    Took them 7 plays from our 32 yard line.

    What killed us that day was this
    4-1-DEN32 (1:15) M.Knorr punts 50 yards to JAX 18, Center-M.Leach. J.Lewis to DEN 32 for 50 yards (R.Alexander).

    They were only on our side of the field 4 times all day and ended their possessions @ J26, D49, J29, D46, J37, J24, D37after a missed DEN FG, D36, J46,J26 after Q fumble and 2 penalties.


    Not that I have watched alot of JAX games cause I have only seen 8-9 since he came in the league. I remember seeing him destroy UTEP the year before I think it was that he was drafted.

    But after watching his performance in the games, I have seen him in I would not never have him on our squad in our scheme.

    While he maybe a budding great QB I don't see it. He (IMHO) will never be game breaker, perhaps not a game loser but not a superstar or great QB.
    From that perspective, we agree. I just didn't concur with your jabs at Leftwich, however slight.

    And while you won't want to hear this, your last sentiment is exactly how I feel about JP.

    "He (IMHO) will never be game breaker, perhaps not a game loser but not a superstar or great QB."

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by broncos_mtnman
    You missed the point entirely.

    Cheap or not, Leftwich played better than Jake. Again, if the stats were reversed, you would be telling us how JP played a mistake free game.

    I don't live for the QB rating. I included it in the stats, but Leftwich is better in the other catagories you hold dear. However, your claim that stats do matter to you isn't entirely true. Only stats that you like matter to you. I have provided volumes of stats to you and you dispute them all, because they don't jive with your point of view. Which is OK. We both use stats to prove our point.

    This season (which is the only one that matters) they are even in win-loss. And besides, as you so plainly put it when talking about JPs playoff record, teams win and lose games. Win-loss isn't the only indicator of QB success, otherwise we would have signed Trent Dilfer when he was available. The other stats do matter.

    And I never contended that I want Leftwich.
    My point on their TD was looking at the rest of the stats for the day our Defense completely had them in control all day except for that short drive (yards)

    1-10-DEN32 (:58) F.Taylor left end to DEN 25 for 7 yards (J.Lynch).
    2-3-DEN25 (:29) F.Taylor up the middle to DEN 17 for 8 yards (D.Holland).
    Second Quarter
    1-10-DEN17 (15:00) L.Toefield right end to DEN 19 for -2 yards (K.Herndon).
    PENALTY on DEN-D.Holland, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 17 - No Play.
    1-10-DEN12 (14:39) F.Taylor right end to DEN 12 for no gain (K.Kennedy).
    2-10-DEN12 (13:55) G.Jones up the middle to DEN 7 for 5 yards (D.Spragan). FUMBLES (D.Spragan), recovered by JAX-B.Meester at DEN 7. B.Meester to DEN 7 for no gain (J.Lynch).
    3-5-DEN7 (13:10) (Shotgun) PENALTY on JAX-G.Wrighster, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 7 - No Play.
    3-10-DEN12 (12:46) (Shotgun) B.Leftwich pass to E.Wilford for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

    Took them 7 plays from our 32 yard line.

    What killed us that day was this
    4-1-DEN32 (1:15) M.Knorr punts 50 yards to JAX 18, Center-M.Leach. J.Lewis to DEN 32 for 50 yards (R.Alexander).

    They were only on our side of the field 4 times all day and ended their possessions @ J26, D49, J29, D46, J37, J24, D37after a missed DEN FG, D36, J46,J26 after Q fumble and 2 penalties.


    Not that I have watched alot of JAX games cause I have only seen 8-9 since he came in the league. I remember seeing him destroy UTEP the year before I think it was that he was drafted.

    But after watching his performance in the games, I have seen him in I would not never have him on our squad in our scheme.

    While he maybe a budding great QB I don't see it. He (IMHO) will never be game breaker, perhaps not a game loser but not a superstar or great QB.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncos_mtnman
    replied
    Originally posted by Jrhampton
    Why did we lose the game it was not because Jake did not light their defense up, it was because we were unable to run against them period.
    Code:
    leftwich                       att comp % yards td
    09/19 DEN W 7-6 Yes 16    8    50.0 120 1  
    St Jake
    09/19 @JAC L 6-7 Yes 39 23     59.0 250 0
    They got a cheap TD on a 30+some odd drive after our ST allowed a long run back. Other than that they were unable to get into DEN side of the field but once if I remember correctly.

    You live for QB rating I don't care about it. The other stats are much more important to most other on this forum.

    My major concern is that I care about winning and losing so far Jake is ahead in those areas.

    You will never see anywhere when I have not used stats as a point of reference.

    I stand by my statement I'll take Jake over leftwich anyday of the week.
    You missed the point entirely.

    Cheap or not, Leftwich played better than Jake. Again, if the stats were reversed, you would be telling us how JP played a mistake free game.

    I don't live for the QB rating. I included it in the stats, but Leftwich is better in the other catagories you hold dear. However, your claim that stats do matter to you isn't entirely true. Only stats that you like matter to you. I have provided volumes of stats to you and you dispute them all, because they don't jive with your point of view. Which is OK. We both use stats to prove our point.

    This season (which is the only one that matters) they are even in win-loss. And besides, as you so plainly put it when talking about JPs playoff record, teams win and lose games. Win-loss isn't the only indicator of QB success, otherwise we would have signed Trent Dilfer when he was available. The other stats do matter.

    And I never contended that I want Leftwich.

    Leave a comment:


  • arapaho
    replied
    Be aggressive..........................B....E ..... Aggressive

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by broncos_mtnman
    Now wait a minute. I thought stats don't matter.

    In an earlier post, you said Leftwich is a lousy QB based on his stats against us. Well, if memory serves correctly.....WE LOST THAT GAME!!

    If the roles had been reversed and JP had only thrown for 120 yards and we won, you would be telling us all how St. Jake had a good game.

    Your double standard is showing...

    However, if you want to use stats, let's take a look at them going into this game...

    Leftwich 49 comp / 83 att (59%)
    Plummer 58 comp / 103 att (56%)

    Leftwich 4 TD / 1 INT
    Plummer 2 TD / 3 INT

    Leftwich 93.8 QB rating
    Plummer 69.7 QB rating

    Jaquars 2-1
    Broncos 2-1

    If you want to look at stats, Leftwich is better than JP in every catagory.
    Why did we lose the game it was not because Jake did not light their defense up, it was because we were unable to run against them period.
    Code:
    leftwich                       att comp % yards td
    09/19 DEN W 7-6 Yes 16    8    50.0 120 1  
    St Jake
    09/19 @JAC L 6-7 Yes 39 23     59.0 250 0
    They got a cheap TD on a 30+some odd drive after our ST allowed a long run back. Other than that they were unable to get into DEN side of the field but once if I remember correctly.

    You live for QB rating I don't care about it. The other stats are much more important to most other on this forum.

    My major concern is that I care about winning and losing so far Jake is ahead in those areas.

    You will never see anywhere when I have not used stats as a point of reference.

    I stand by my statement I'll take Jake over leftwich anyday of the week.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncos_mtnman
    replied
    Originally posted by Jrhampton
    Like it or not Mikey scripts 15-20 plays to start the game. He does this mainly to see how the Defense plays against it or counters the offensive sets.

    If you don't want to beleive that I can't help you.

    As far as comparing
    Left wich and plummer comparison
    Code:
    2005
                                       Passing         Rushing   
    Player      Att Cmp Yd     TD   Int Rate  Att Yd Avg TD 
    Plummer  103 58   651    2    3   69.7 10  29 2.9   1 
    Leftwich    83 49   627    4    1   93.8   9  32 3.6    0  
    2004
    Plummer  522 303 4089  27  20  84.4  60   215  3.6 
    Leftwich   441 267 2941 15  10   82.2  39  148  3.8
    2003
    Plummer 302 189 2182  15    7   91.2   37 205  5.5 
    Leftwich  419 239 2819  14  17  71.9   25 108  4.3  
    
    Comparable numbers considering Jake 5 missed games due to a broken foot.
    You can have leftwich I'll be happy with Jake.

    The pass defense being beefed up your are partially correct. Mikey has really done little on defense that has panned out for several years via the draft.

    I still fear Fred Taylor a whole bunch more than leftwich.

    You are free to believe what you wish.
    Now wait a minute. I thought stats don't matter.

    In an earlier post, you said Leftwich is a lousy QB based on his stats against us. Well, if memory serves correctly.....WE LOST THAT GAME!!

    If the roles had been reversed and JP had only thrown for 120 yards and we won, you would be telling us all how St. Jake had a good game.

    Your double standard is showing...

    However, if you want to use stats, let's take a look at them going into this game...

    Leftwich 49 comp / 83 att (59%)
    Plummer 58 comp / 103 att (56%)

    Leftwich 4 TD / 1 INT
    Plummer 2 TD / 3 INT

    Leftwich 93.8 QB rating
    Plummer 69.7 QB rating

    Jaquars 2-1
    Broncos 2-1

    If you want to look at stats, Leftwich is better than JP in every catagory.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by Bigal5651
    give me a break jrhampton. You know little. First off, i am aware mike gameplans for the first series of the game. Mike shanahan is playing chess out there. Nice chess move running the ball on 3rd and 8. He didnt want to start the game with anything catostrophic like a pick in their own territory because he thought they could win the game by just playing mistake free football. Any coach knows that on 3rd and 8 against the miami dolphins the only way to pick up the first down is to throw the ball. So dont give me mike was playing chess games out there.

    Also, if you were to call any talk show, listen to any NFL tv show, or ask any non partisan fan who was the better QB, jake or leftwich. I guarentee the answer is leftwich. He is quickly becoming one of the NFL's better quarterbacks. That is a fact. Good size, huge arm, huge heart and toughness.

    In response to your theory of us being more suseptable to the ground attack vs. the pass attack. Your evidence was a game against the cincinanti bengals in like 99. Big deal, what happened to us the past few years in Indy, was that edge scoring all those touchdowns? No, we got absolutly lit up threw the air.

    Why do u think mike drafted all those DB's. DB's stop the pass, not the run. Why do u think we brought in courtney brown and gerard warren, two pass RUSHING d linemen. Too get to the quarterback so he cant tourch us in the air.

    Also, one last point. Why do u think monsanto pope has been inactive the last couple of weeks. He is a great run stuffer. Because mike emphasises pass rush much more because he is much more scared of a passing attack than a running attack.
    Like it or not Mikey scripts 15-20 plays to start the game. He does this mainly to see how the Defense plays against it or counters the offensive sets.

    If you don't want to beleive that I can't help you.

    As far as comparing
    Left wich and plummer comparison
    Code:
    2005
                                       Passing         Rushing   
    Player      Att Cmp Yd     TD   Int Rate  Att Yd Avg TD 
    Plummer  103 58   651    2    3   69.7 10  29 2.9   1 
    Leftwich    83 49   627    4    1   93.8   9  32 3.6    0  
    2004
    Plummer  522 303 4089  27  20  84.4  60   215  3.6 
    Leftwich   441 267 2941 15  10   82.2  39  148  3.8
    2003
    Plummer 302 189 2182  15    7   91.2   37 205  5.5 
    Leftwich  419 239 2819  14  17  71.9   25 108  4.3  
    
    Comparable numbers considering Jake 5 missed games due to a broken foot.
    You can have leftwich I'll be happy with Jake.

    The pass defense being beefed up your are partially correct. Mikey has really done little on defense that has panned out for several years via the draft.

    I still fear Fred Taylor a whole bunch more than leftwich.

    You are free to believe what you wish.

    BTW after rereading your comments.

    Dillon set that russhing record way after 1999 and then we got torched again the year before last again. TOP could probably furnish those numbers cause he KNOWS ALL.

    Last but not least

    Most Yards Gained, Game
    295 Jamal Lewis, Baltimore vs. Cleveland, Sept. 14, 2003
    278 Corey Dillon, Cincinnati vs. Denver, Oct. 22, 2000

    A couple of other RB's if memory serves correct torched us for over 200 on a couple of occasions since.
    Last edited by Jrhampton; 09-29-2005, 02:20 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigal5651
    replied
    give me a break jrhampton. You know little. First off, i am aware mike gameplans for the first series of the game. Mike shanahan is playing chess out there. Nice chess move running the ball on 3rd and 8. He didnt want to start the game with anything catostrophic like a pick in their own territory because he thought they could win the game by just playing mistake free football. Any coach knows that on 3rd and 8 against the miami dolphins the only way to pick up the first down is to throw the ball. So dont give me mike was playing chess games out there.

    Also, if you were to call any talk show, listen to any NFL tv show, or ask any non partisan fan who was the better QB, jake or leftwich. I guarentee the answer is leftwich. He is quickly becoming one of the NFL's better quarterbacks. That is a fact. Good size, huge arm, huge heart and toughness.

    In response to your theory of us being more suseptable to the ground attack vs. the pass attack. Your evidence was a game against the cincinanti bengals in like 99. Big deal, what happened to us the past few years in Indy, was that edge scoring all those touchdowns? No, we got absolutly lit up threw the air.

    Why do u think mike drafted all those DB's. DB's stop the pass, not the run. Why do u think we brought in courtney brown and gerard warren, two pass RUSHING d linemen. Too get to the quarterback so he cant tourch us in the air.

    Also, one last point. Why do u think monsanto pope has been inactive the last couple of weeks. He is a great run stuffer. Because mike emphasises pass rush much more because he is much more scared of a passing attack than a running attack.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by Bigal5651
    I agree that we need to be aggressive on playcalling. If you recall the first week in Miami, we ran the ball 3 times in a row the first series on offense. That told me shanahan was soo nervous plummer was going to make a mistake deep in their own territory that he wouldnt even let jake throw. That carried on the whole game until we were too far down to catch up.

    We cannot afford to do this again. I hope we come out throwing the ball like we did against san diego and KC. Both times we did this we drove all the way down the field efficently into the red zone. If shanahan makes a good game plan for the first offensive series. It will either allow us to take and early and important lead, or at worst, take control of the field position battle for the first half of the game.

    As for defense, im not concered about fred taylor. Denver has always been good about stopping the run, and i dont think we need to put too much emphasis on that. I'm alot more concered about the pass game. Just becasue JAX doesnt score very many points doesnt mean they dont have a good passing game. Leftwich is a very good passer and jimmy smith always gets it done and has a knack of catching that deep bomb at some point in close games. Champs injury will probably prompt JAX to want to throw more anyway.

    BS Mikey scripts his plays to see what they will do, to stop them. We have always been per-see a run first team. If Mikey was concerned or afraid about Jake doing something stupid he would not be playing him. Mikey is playing chess out there, if I do this what are they gonna counter with?



    As for SAN and KC they pretty much know these teams inside out since they play them twice a year and the GAME film on them to study not so with MIA.

    DEN history about giving up huge games to RB is well known we have held most of teh dubious honors of having several RB set records against us Fred Taylor is a load and if he gets started it will be a long day. Both priest 5-9 213 and LT 5-10 220 are little guys as compared to Fred, who usually plays at about 6-1 236+ pounds. If memory serves correct Fred was playing hurt last year till mid October when we played them.

    BTW Letfwich is a lousy QB last year had a whooping 107 yards against us. He may at some time of his career become a decent QB but has not been so far and his only real quality is his size really hard to bring down. The rest will probably develope, but was told they really had to dumb down the playbook to accomodate him.
    Last edited by Jrhampton; 09-29-2005, 12:11 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • HORSEPOWER 56
    replied
    The key is to let our D- line play full passrush every down. We did this to KC and it worked. Let our LBs and Safeties worry about run containment. All four of our front 4 need to be in full passrush all night to prevent being beaten by Jax's larger receivers. Having the D-line in full passrush will eliminate their play-action abilities.

    Leave a comment:


  • Superchop7
    replied
    Originally posted by PR-Broncomaniac
    Agressive play has earned us 2 wins, Shanny and Co. know this and I doubt that they will be changing this formula for success in Jacksonville.
    Our offense must score at least 3 times and our Def can hold a slightly injured Leftwich in check.
    I have a good feeling that we will play the type of football we displayed on MNF.
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________

    The formula for success changes weekly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bigal5651
    replied
    I agree that we need to be aggressive on playcalling. If you recall the first week in Miami, we ran the ball 3 times in a row the first series on offense. That told me shanahan was soo nervous plummer was going to make a mistake deep in their own territory that he wouldnt even let jake throw. That carried on the whole game until we were too far down to catch up.

    We cannot afford to do this again. I hope we come out throwing the ball like we did against san diego and KC. Both times we did this we drove all the way down the field efficently into the red zone. If shanahan makes a good game plan for the first offensive series. It will either allow us to take and early and important lead, or at worst, take control of the field position battle for the first half of the game.

    As for defense, im not concered about fred taylor. Denver has always been good about stopping the run, and i dont think we need to put too much emphasis on that. I'm alot more concered about the pass game. Just becasue JAX doesnt score very many points doesnt mean they dont have a good passing game. Leftwich is a very good passer and jimmy smith always gets it done and has a knack of catching that deep bomb at some point in close games. Champs injury will probably prompt JAX to want to throw more anyway.

    Leave a comment:


  • watchthemiddle
    replied
    Originally posted by Jrhampton
    If we can stop taylor the game is ours.

    He is averaging 3.5 a carry.

    Make them throw the ball and leftwich will not be able to convert just like last year the had a 176 net total offensive yards all game, 67 rushing and 109 passing

    http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/[email protected]

    If the weather is decent no reason we can't dominate this team.

    Make sure Mikey puts in an early wake up call for them so they will be awake at kick off..

    I was just about to post those stats also. OUr D will continue to play well I believe. OUr O is going to have to come up with a way to move the ball and get touchdowns not FG's in this one.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    If we can stop taylor the game is ours.

    He is averaging 3.5 a carry.

    Make them throw the ball and leftwich will not be able to convert just like last year the had a 176 net total offensive yards all game, 67 rushing and 109 passing

    http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/[email protected]

    If the weather is decent no reason we can't dominate this team.

    Make sure Mikey puts in an early wake up call for them so they will be awake at kick off..

    Leave a comment:


  • assassin216
    replied
    i think we need to score at least 23 points to beat jacksonville on sunday

    Leave a comment:

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