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  • #46
    Most of these players proved them selves in college. Wilson proved he could play back in Tennessee then that was why we got him in the first round.
    The Game Day Thread: Year 17 in progress!!! sigpic

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    • #47
      Originally posted by TXBRONC
      Pierce is unprove as you indicated and there is questions about his ability play in coverage. Wilson will be resigned I have no doubt about that.

      i beleive AW will b resigned n they'll move pierce to OLB in place of mobley next year or mayb this year if he cant come back...they put him there last year b4 he got hurt....i no they put him there bcuzz of all the injuries but i think he'll stay there...spragan is RFA i doubt he'll b resigned...

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Elway
        Most of these players proved them selves in college. Wilson proved he could play back in Tennessee then that was why we got him in the first round.
        thats a whole different thing. Griffin also proved himself in college in a big way, so whatever excuse you are gettin ready to use against griffin, use it against wilson's college career.
        dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

        I tried to warn ya.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Return of Lava
          thats a whole different thing. Griffin also proved himself in college in a big way, so whatever excuse you are gettin ready to use against griffin, use it against wilson's college career.

          The thing is Q is second string AW isn't, nothing against Q plus we got a good Back that's why we aren't playing him cuz CP is much better...Plus UT(Tennessee) is a way better college than Oklahoma(In my opinion and the only reason I think that is because I love UT ALMOST as much as I love the Broncos...)
          sigpic

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          • #50
            Portis could go if needed (he's still got 2 more years on his contract that he probably can't get out of anyway). Wilson on the other hand would be a huge loss. The cap is the great equalizer in the league now but I see Wilson as a must sign. If we lose Wilson we are going to be in trouble at MLB, a critical position considering our base D. Portis on the other hand has put up slightly above average numbers for a RB in our system, hardly something to be beating ones chest over...

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Plastique
              Portis could go if needed (he's still got 2 more years on his contract that he probably can't get out of anyway). Wilson on the other hand would be a huge loss. The cap is the great equalizer in the league now but I see Wilson as a must sign. If we lose Wilson we are going to be in trouble at MLB, a critical position considering our base D. Portis on the other hand has put up slightly above average numbers for a RB in our system, hardly something to be beating ones chest over...
              While you're making to concerted effort dis-credit Portis' potential and are pro-Al Wilson, your logic is entirely flawed. Saying we should give Al any amount it takes (we've reprtedly offered him 45 million) to keep him, is rediculous. Wilson is every one of the things you have described on defense...a leader, tough-physically and mentally. He is NOT a gamebreaker. He does not cause fumbles, get sacks or get interceptions. But, lets throw him a wad of cash the size of Colorado at him, because he is consistent.

              By the same standard, Portis is also consistent. You are overanalyzing your powers of perception in Portis' potential. You have left yourself open to this critique by your spamming of this board trying to dis-credit Portis with your stat this, stat that, on several threads (need I say they are the same exacts post's, over and over?). Saying you are an experienced RB, has nothing to do with your asessment of said RB.

              The Denver Broncos have NEVER and I mean NEVER, had anyone with the POTENTIAL of a Clinton Portis. TD did not enjoy this kind of success in his first two years and he had John Elway. Yeah, he's only had two years...Al has had how many? He has yet to achieve the status of a gamebreaking player but you want the Organization to throw 50 million at him? Your logic is flawed.

              Give Portis a healthy raise, let Wilson test the FA waters. I guarantee, noone is going to throw 50 million at him. He will come back and sign for significantly less, here in Denver.
              RunByDesign
              Ad Idem
              Last edited by RunByDesign; 02-07-2004, 07:16 AM.
              Originally posted by boltzpride619
              What's so funny is seeing all this mess that the Donks and the fans have placed on themselves. Can you say Raiders.

              Originally posted by RunByDesign
              True comedy is observing the Self Imploding Organization that is the Raiders and then asking yourself this question:

              What separates them (Raiders) from us (Chargers)

              Answer: Championships.

              Comment


              • #52
                Good points man, I'd like to argue a couple of them with you for a minute but no hard feelings.

                First off I want to throw out any experiences I've had personally as a RB, they are beside the point and I shouldn't have brought them up to begin with.

                Ok, having said that... you're right, I was wrong in saying the sky is the limit with Wilson, obviously the Bronc's shouldn't look at gutting the team to sign him. He's looking for big numbers but they look attainable from what I've seen (media reports, etc.). The reason that I think they should look at signing him for these big numbers is that as you have mentioned... he's consistent. Game breaker? no. But at the MLB position you don't have to have a game breaker to have a player that can make or break your team. There aren't many Ray Lewis' out there, in fact how many MLB's can you name in the entire league that come up with consistently high numbers of int's etc that a superstar like Lewis does? The MLB in a base 4-3 is there to stuff things up, in fact stuff things up to the point that teams start looking for other options. The first thing any NFL defense is looking to do shut down the inside running game, Al Wilson is very capable at doing this... not the best but very capable. In addition to that he is pretty decent in coverage, not stellar but solid. The other thing that the MLB brings (and most important thing) is the ability to read the offense and make adjustments (basically the defensive QB). Its hard to put a real value on this ability. There aren't any stats that reflect the ability to read what the offense is trying to do and ultimately IMO it comes down to the intelligence level of the player to pull this off. You can't quantify this type of thing, and most people overlook this. IMO Wilson is better than the vast majority of players in his position in this regard.

                Now, on to Portis. He's a pretty solid back, good speed, good instincts. When it comes to putting his head down and grinding out tough yards he's iffy IMO. Unfortunately he's got a monkey on his back as far as I'm concerned. That monkey is the fact that several backs (some who have had very questionable raw ability) have also been able put up similiar numbers as he has in the last few years. They didn't do it back to back like he did, but he doesn't have TD trying to get back in the lineup either. Do I think he's a horrible back? No. Do I think he's a franchise player? No. When you're talking about replacing CP if he decides to go elsewhere its just not the same thing as trying to replace an Al Wilson, or a really consistent QB.

                MLB and QB are key positions IMO. RB is extremely important, but not a key position like the other two. I hate to say it but I can only back this up by saying that this has come from my experience playing the game. Since I don't want to provide any more information in this regard feel free to dismiss my thoughts if you want. As a side note, the RB position naturally leads to more spectacular results, I mentioned elsewhere that I received more accolades than a good friend of mine thats been in the league for quite some time. Did that mean I was a better player? No way, I was in a position that put me in the spotlight, he wasn't but was consistently a better player, so he's getting the big paychecks and I'm not.
                Plastique
                Practice Squad
                Last edited by Plastique; 02-07-2004, 07:35 AM.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Plastique


                  MLB and QB are key positions IMO. RB is extremely important, but not a key position like the other two.

                  These are the reasons why I think you are being too quick to downplay the true value of Portis to the team. Those two other positions require person's of true leadership abilities. The RB pos does not require the same amount or opportunity for this. Yes, if Portis left, we would have another successful RB to replace, no matter what. What I don't see happening is someone with the same potential ot tools that he has. Unless Michael Vick is going to get traded and come play RB for us, I would like to see us keep Portis. He is a gamebreker and the most explosive back in the NFL, that we have not seen the likes of in a good many years.

                  Originally posted by Plastique

                  I hate to say it but I can only back this up by saying that this has come from my experience playing the game. Since I don't want to provide any more information in this regard feel free to dismiss my thoughts if you want. As a side note, the RB position naturally leads to more spectacular results, I mentioned elsewhere that I received more accolades than a good friend of mine thats been in the league for quite some time. Did that mean I was a better player? No way, I was in a position that put me in the spotlight, he wasn't but was consistently a better player, so he's getting the big paychecks and I'm not.

                  Not everyone's experience is the same...not to dis-credit yours, however.
                  Originally posted by boltzpride619
                  What's so funny is seeing all this mess that the Donks and the fans have placed on themselves. Can you say Raiders.

                  Originally posted by RunByDesign
                  True comedy is observing the Self Imploding Organization that is the Raiders and then asking yourself this question:

                  What separates them (Raiders) from us (Chargers)

                  Answer: Championships.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Hehehe, put a couple beers in me and I'll argue till I'm blue in the face that RB is the toughest and most important position on any team. But I just have to look at the realities of the league and the focus the rules put on passing to say the things I'm saying. 8)

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Plastique
                      Portis could go if needed (he's still got 2 more years on his contract that he probably can't get out of anyway). Wilson on the other hand would be a huge loss. The cap is the great equalizer in the league now but I see Wilson as a must sign. If we lose Wilson we are going to be in trouble at MLB, a critical position considering our base D. Portis on the other hand has put up slightly above average numbers for a RB in our system, hardly something to be beating ones chest over...
                      SLIGHTLY above avg. numbers thats not true....in his 1st 2 years hes put up the 2nd highest total in rushing yds behind eric d***erson n 3rd is james from indy pretty good company....he'd a blew away the record xcept he didnt start until the 5th or 6th game of his rookie year n missed 3 1/2 games last year...plus theres not alot RB's who can take to the house at any given time they touch the ball....IMO they'll both b signed long term...

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Return of Lava
                        al wilson ws unproven at one point also, until he actually played! Before that, every player is unproven.
                        Yes, however there was no question about his ability to cover backs out of the backfield. Pierce even before he was drafted was seen as liability in coverage. Not so with Wilson that I can recall.
                        John 11: 25-27

                        My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                        Thanks Snk16

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by TXBRONC
                          Yes, however there was no question about his ability to cover backs out of the backfield. Pierce even before he was drafted was seen as liability in coverage. Not so with Wilson that I can recall.
                          wilson cant cover that good either. unless you are taking about his ability to stay around a receiver until he catches it so he can hit him. i have never seen al wilson bat away a pass from man to man covergae or even get an INT. Pierce could at least do that too. before you try to pick on me some more, let me just say i dont think pierce is as good as wilson overall, but wilson is no great prescence in the pass game, only in the run game he is a great prescence
                          dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                          I tried to warn ya.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            If Wilson was a liability in the passing game I think Coyer would not have in there in obvious passing situation. I also seen Wilson cover backs well enough to keep the qb from going them and numerous times I know I have seen him break up passes.
                            John 11: 25-27

                            My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                            Thanks Snk16

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by TXBRONC
                              If Wilson was a liability in the passing game I think Coyer would not have in there in obvious passing situation. I also seen Wilson cover backs well enough to keep the qb from going them and numerous times I know I have seen him break up passes.
                              gold is still better in the pass game, he gets INT's and sacks, wilson doesnt.
                              dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                              I tried to warn ya.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by bcollin1
                                Dude...less hashish, man.
                                See, ob420? You're a bad influence!

                                We had Wilson covering RANDY MOSS, for crying out loud!!

                                He broke up not one, but TWO passes meant for Moss in that game.

                                If that's not "cover that good," then I don't know what is.
                                umm, i missed that game, but i find that hard to believe wilson covered moss man to man and knocked 2 passes away. maybe it was zone.

                                and anyway, if it was man, what the hell were they thinking?
                                dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                                I tried to warn ya.

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