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T.D. to Canton?

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  • BroncoStampede
    replied
    Technically Curtis Martin was the best running back in the NFL last season. He did win the rushing title.

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  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by The Dark Knight
    As I said many times before, TD won't get in for one reason.

    Olandis Gary

    More and more people are thinking TD was just another one of our many system backs. The thought of just being able to plug anyone back there and get production has seriously undermined TD's bid for HOF.

    I know this isn't completely true and that TD had talent that went beyond our system but what I think is not gonna matter.


    I wonder how Portis would have fared if he had Elway, Eddie Mac, Rod, Sharpe and that Defense in their prime.

    Let's face it, TD had it pretty good also. All those weapons to open up running lanes. I'm not sure if TD will get in because of all these things.
    I don't know if thats true DK. I mean. Emmit Smith certainly had a lot of weapons on his side of the ball with him, and his offensive line was absolutely DOMINATING..and he NEVER rushed for as many yards as TD in 6 seasons, and he NEVER rushed for a 2000yrd season.

    People that vote on candidates for the HoF DO know football. They aren't going to see the talent of TD and compare him to the likes of an Olandis Gary. There have been a LOT of 1200 yrd rushers in this league. That goes back to the consistantcy and longevity. Terrell may have had a short career, but during those 6 seasons, he was absolutely THE dominating back in the league. I don't think ANYONE would try to say that Terrell was simply a back of the "system." At least not anyone that TRULY knows football. Terrell was a pearl. One that just had talent tht very few backs have. I know that the HoF commity knows his talent was FAR greater than just that of the system. I think it just comes down to the amount of years he was in the league...or rather..the amount of years he wasn't.

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  • The Dark Knight
    replied
    As I said many times before, TD won't get in for one reason.

    Olandis Gary

    More and more people are thinking TD was just another one of our many system backs. The thought of just being able to plug anyone back there and get production has seriously undermined TD's bid for HOF.

    I know this isn't completely true and that TD had talent that went beyond our system but what I think is not gonna matter.


    I wonder how Portis would have fared if he had Elway, Eddie Mac, Rod, Sharpe and that Defense in their prime.

    Let's face it, TD had it pretty good also. All those weapons to open up running lanes. I'm not sure if TD will get in because of all these things.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by Atwater His Ass
    While I certainly respect Martin and Bettis, they were never, imo, the best at their position. Great backs who will be in the Hall for other reasons, but not for being the best.

    I am also not in any way suggesting having one standout year as the benchmark for the Hall. But rather, I think it is important to look back at the time when any player was active and see if they were dominant performers at their position. If you cannot achieve that over the years you played, then how can you be voted into the Hall with the all-time greats?

    Bettis is a perfect example, and you said yourself: "when his consistantcy finally struck to make him one of the top 6 in total yards in NFL History." This to me is not HoF caliber. Amassing huge stats just because you played a long time doesn't mean much to me. Yes it's great that he has taken care of himself enough to play that long, but that really doesn't mean a whole lot. Bettis is and was a great RB who will get into the Hall just based on his longevity, but imo, he is not really HoF worthy. Whereas a guy like TD completly dominated his positon for the time he played. He was a special player and an elite RB. To me, that means more than hanging around and amassing stats based on longevity.
    I agree with you. I don't think Bettis is HoF caliber. To me, this is a person that gets into it based on Baseball criteria... and thats stats alone. Although I DO think there is place and respect for longevity. For one, you not only have to have the ability (and luck) to stay healther, but also to have the skll and ability to continue to beat out the younger players and continue to compete at a high level. Even if its not the HIGHEST level. I personally never considered Bettis HoF material. His stats snuck up on me, and I never realized he was amassing so many career yards. It snuck up, because no one really paid that much attention to him. If he's really THAT great, wouldn't people see him being HoF worthy a LONG time ago?

    So I definatly agree with you on that point. I also agree tht Davis deserves to be in Canton. I think each and every player needs to be judged individually rather than comparing them to the "average" career. Davis had a short career due to an injury. Although we can't give anyone that had a couple of good years into Canton... Davis definatly proved that his career was no fluke, and his ability was CERTAINLy amongst the tops of all time. I think its a shame that he may never be inducted as he truly deserves to be.

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  • Atwater His Ass
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!!
    Not exactly. There were years when Martin was considered to be the best in the Game. There was a few years back, that Bettis was certainly considered to be the best.

    The problem with what you are suggesting, is that being the "best" is so subjective. Not to mention, there are players that have been the "best in the league" for ONE year. Is that enough to get them into Canton? Of course not, but going by your set standards, it would be. Something HAS to be said for longevity and consistantcy. Martin has been the PILLAR of consistantcy throughout his career. SOlid, tough, and one of the best each and every year. He's a slam DUNK. Bettis, didn't really get his "credit" until the last couple of years, when his consistantcy finally struck to make him one of the top 6 in total yards in NFL History. He was never the back that Davis was, but you have to give him credit for doing what he's done, and being ABLE to do it for as many years as he has.
    While I certainly respect Martin and Bettis, they were never, imo, the best at their position. Great backs who will be in the Hall for other reasons, but not for being the best.

    I am also not in any way suggesting having one standout year as the benchmark for the Hall. But rather, I think it is important to look back at the time when any player was active and see if they were dominant performers at their position. If you cannot achieve that over the years you played, then how can you be voted into the Hall with the all-time greats?

    Bettis is a perfect example, and you said yourself: "when his consistantcy finally struck to make him one of the top 6 in total yards in NFL History." This to me is not HoF caliber. Amassing huge stats just because you played a long time doesn't mean much to me. Yes it's great that he has taken care of himself enough to play that long, but that really doesn't mean a whole lot. Bettis is and was a great RB who will get into the Hall just based on his longevity, but imo, he is not really HoF worthy. Whereas a guy like TD completly dominated his positon for the time he played. He was a special player and an elite RB. To me, that means more than hanging around and amassing stats based on longevity.
    Last edited by Atwater His Ass; 11-12-2005, 01:13 PM.

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  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by Atwater His Ass
    The only problem I have with players like Bettis and Martin is that, while consistent solid players, they were never at any point in there careers the obvious #1 player at their positions. Davis was, and I think that is a very important aspect that a player needs to achieve before they get voted into the Hall.

    Not exactly. There were years when Martin was considered to be the best in the Game. There was a few years back, that Bettis was certainly considered to be the best.

    The problem with what you are suggesting, is that being the "best" is so subjective. Not to mention, there are players that have been the "best in the league" for ONE year. Is that enough to get them into Canton? Of course not, but going by your set standards, it would be. Something HAS to be said for longevity and consistantcy. Martin has been the PILLAR of consistantcy throughout his career. SOlid, tough, and one of the best each and every year. He's a slam DUNK. Bettis, didn't really get his "credit" until the last couple of years, when his consistantcy finally struck to make him one of the top 6 in total yards in NFL History. He was never the back that Davis was, but you have to give him credit for doing what he's done, and being ABLE to do it for as many years as he has.

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  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Terrel Davis set records for having the most yards of ANY running back in their first 6 seasons. Have more touch downs than any running back during a Super Bowl. Was only one of four to rush for over 2000 yrds. In his firt six years, he had a 2000 yrd season, two SB rings, a SB MVP, and an NFL MVP.... does he show that he has the skill and ability to be IN the HoF?? ABSOLUTELY!!

    But, I don't think he will make it. They will see a player that only lasted 6 years (before injury)...and will simply judge him on that matter. If he had another 2 years...even mediocre years.. I would say he would have been a lock. I just don't see him making it now. I Truly hope I'm wrong... I think he deserves it...but I dn't see him making the 'unset' bar.

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  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by Emancipator
    a few more solid seasons but would need to shut his mouth as well.
    You made the same mistake I initially did. You are talking about T.O.... they are talking about T.D...(Terrell Davis)

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  • Atwater His Ass
    replied
    Originally posted by MyFav
    I totally agree with you. He proved that he was the best at his position in his day.
    I just wish the people that vote for the HOF seen it the same way.
    The ironic thing about it is that the biggest knock on Davis will be his short career, but during that time he was the best. Whereas players like Bettis will more than likely get voted in based on their longevity and the stats they were able to obtain just because of the fact they played so long, but weren't ever the best.

    In that case, the voters put a greater standing on medicore players that had a long career than outstanding players that had a short one.

    Not that having a long career is bad, but it is hardly the mark of an elite player. Some of it is luck, some of it is preperation and fitness. But having a long career in and of itself (and the eventual stats you will tabulate because of it) is hardly a case, imo, to be voted into the Hall.

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  • Emancipator
    replied
    He is headed that way but he needs

    a few more solid seasons but would need to shut his mouth as well.

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  • MyFav
    replied
    Originally posted by Atwater His Ass
    The only problem I have with players like Bettis and Martin is that, while consistent solid players, they were never at any point in there careers the obvious #1 player at their positions. Davis was, and I think that is a very important aspect that a player needs to achieve before they get voted into the Hall.
    I totally agree with you. He proved that he was the best at his position in his day.
    I just wish the people that vote for the HOF seen it the same way.

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  • Atwater His Ass
    replied
    Originally posted by Elway
    Don't think it will happen either, They won't put him in becuase they put Sayers in years ago. The key thing they will focus on is longevity. You have running backs like Bettis and Martin who will make it because even though they don't have a SB ring or 2000 yard season, they have longevity and some consistency to their carreers.

    It would be great if the Hall recognized TD someday, I just don't think they will.
    The only problem I have with players like Bettis and Martin is that, while consistent solid players, they were never at any point in there careers the obvious #1 player at their positions. Davis was, and I think that is a very important aspect that a player needs to achieve before they get voted into the Hall.

    Leave a comment:


  • SkyFlash1
    replied
    He's in. No question in my mind really.

    He's already got a display there. The plaque reads about his '98 season and on display is his jersey from the Jaguar game where he broke 1000 yds in the seventh game of the season. It's right along side a Favre jersey. Elway had a similar display before he was inducted. I believe these displays are sort of like per-induction displays. You don't get one if you aren't cooming. Of course, Elway also has "The Drive" display. That must irk the local Cleveland fans no end.

    I think his obviously awesome ability and post season performance will override his injury shortened career. It's not like he got hurt and said, well that's it. He worked a long time to get back and it just wasn't to be.

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  • MyFav
    replied
    I also don't think that he will make it anytime so. Not saying it will never happen, but it will be hard. He does have many records he was a league and super bowl mvp and 2 time super bowl winner. I believe he was even the fastest person to ever hit 1000 yards in a season with 6 games. But not having enough years will be the down fall. Because to try to figure out what his numbers WOULD have been just will not cut it. Because no one is positive it would have countiued.
    Plus him trying to stay around after the injury did hurt his stats.

    It would be like a rookie running for 2000 yards his rookie year and plowing out his knee and never playing again. Would he have keep up that pace? Most likely no. That is why TD will not make the HOF anytime soon.

    I do think that he deserves it, but it is hard to argue about what never happened.

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  • Elway
    replied
    Don't think it will happen either, They won't put him in becuase they put Sayers in years ago. The key thing they will focus on is longevity. You have running backs like Bettis and Martin who will make it because even though they don't have a SB ring or 2000 yard season, they have longevity and some consistency to their carreers.

    It would be great if the Hall recognized TD someday, I just don't think they will.

    Leave a comment:

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