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  • #16
    Originally posted by CasualFan
    I'm really getting worried about these guys. It looks like Denver and Cincy will be the #2 and #3 seeds, with which one getting which still unclear with two games to play.

    Taking a look at their roster, it turns out that their two starting cornerbacks are Tory James and Deltha O'Neal. Do those names ring a bell? James has 4 ints and O'Neal has 10. TEN.

    How did we let both of these guys go? What is it about our defensive coordinators/staffs that managed to mess this up so badly? Were these players really that bad, or did the coaching merely make them look bad? Or did they just mature after they left Denver?

    I don't fully buy into the idea that "sometimes people just need a change of scenery." Fine. What was it about the scenery that needed changing???
    The fact of the matter is,they cant stop Payton Manning.Deltha gets burned by Indy and New England.

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    • #17
      People like you always come and post about how this guy is good and we were wrong by trading or letting him go. Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to say this now that O'neal is having a good year in Cincy. I bet if Gardner went and kicked some ass on another team poeple like you would post we shouldnt have let Gardner go.
      I don't know if we were wrong to let him go or not. I remember O'Neal getting burned a lot too. I was raising the possibility that his problems may not have been solely his own doing. A lot of the discussion above suggests he had a motivational problem. He may well have; but sometimes that is because of a bad relationship with a coach.

      I'm not disagreeing with the idea that a change of scenery has helped, I'm trying to get at what it was about the scenery that needed changing. Possible example: We've had a hard time getting a good defensive coordinator here in Denver and a lot of people are still not convinced that Coyer is the answer either. O'Neal may have been a failure as a defensive player, but he was also playing for failed defensive coordinators. Maybe it was both of their faults. I'm just trying to figure it out.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Emancipator
        Deltha O'Neal was a favorite Bronco of mine up until Shanny got rid of him. I thought Shanny gave up on him too early. I'm glad he is performing well in the NFL. I hope he gets to start at CB opposite Champ Bailey in the Pro Bowl.
        You ever notice how Deltha sucked here then did well there? Then Champ came here and looked "mortal" according to columnists? Deltha's bad year came with Coyer, Champ's bad year came with Coyer, and Coyer then benches runner up rookie of the year DJ Williams...and says its DJs fault. I don't know, we have all star players on our D but are giving up too many pass and rush yards and I think we're like 29th for redzone TDs scored against us. I know it's been said before but Coyer could be the problem. Certainly there is plenty of circumstantial evidence. I think he has no balls to keep aggressive on teams. When we get ahead he calls for prevent D. Just my opinion.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by CasualFan
          I'm really getting worried about these guys. It looks like Denver and Cincy will be the #2 and #3 seeds, with which one getting which still unclear with two games to play.

          Taking a look at their roster, it turns out that their two starting cornerbacks are Tory James and Deltha O'Neal. Do those names ring a bell? James has 4 ints and O'Neal has 10. TEN.

          How did we let both of these guys go? What is it about our defensive coordinators/staffs that managed to mess this up so badly? Were these players really that bad, or did the coaching merely make them look bad? Or did they just mature after they left Denver?

          I don't fully buy into the idea that "sometimes people just need a change of scenery." Fine. What was it about the scenery that needed changing???

          He fits the Bengals defensive scheme better
          Bronco fan from Packer Land.
          Lefty Writer on The Sports Show with Woody Paige and Les Shapiro
          Tweet me @JoRo_5551

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          • #20
            I was always a fan of Tory James and Deltha Oneil. But when James hurt his knee Shanny thought he couldn't recover and Oneil had an attitude problem with Shanny. Could they cover....your damn right they could. I think they are two of the best in the league.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by SimonSteele
              You ever notice how Deltha sucked here then did well there? Then Champ came here and looked "mortal" according to columnists? Deltha's bad year came with Coyer, Champ's bad year came with Coyer, and Coyer then benches runner up rookie of the year DJ Williams...and says its DJs fault. I don't know, we have all star players on our D but are giving up too many pass and rush yards and I think we're like 29th for redzone TDs scored against us. I know it's been said before but Coyer could be the problem. Certainly there is plenty of circumstantial evidence. I think he has no balls to keep aggressive on teams. When we get ahead he calls for prevent D. Just my opinion.
              O'neal was in Shanahan's dog house almost from day one, even with his 9 interception season. They thought he was a great athlete, but not consistant. One thing that Shanahan demands is players to not make mental mistakes (Jake gets a pass of course ).

              O'neal went for the big play (pick) so often, that he gave up big plays. If there is any reason why Champ had an off year last year, it was adjusting to the 'no contact' rule enforcement. Plus, I think his 'bad' year is overblown. There were a few games where he was beaten, but every cornerback is. The raider's game in the snow? They say one of the toughest things in football is for a DB to cover a receiver in the snow. It just so happens that some of the biggest plays he gave up were in the Cincy game on Monday night and the snow game, which I believe was an ESPN Sunday night game.
              The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt

              sigpic

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              • #22
                I do believe in the change of scenery. Look at the performance of the players we picked up this year from the Browns. Not one time have we heard of them losing interest or not playing their hardest. Oneal just underachieved while he was here. HE didn't live up to or play to his ability. Not sure what the whole story was behind him and Shanahan's relationship, but something went south.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Firstwave64
                  now how many of those ints are from people tipping the balls...and does that team put more pressure on the QB then Denver because that matters
                  1...he has had a grand total of 1 Int off of a deflection. I'm a friendly Bengal fan & I'll give you the low down.

                  Tory James is overrated, O'Neal is not. James is a very good corner. He's perfect for the new rules as he plays off guys just enough to bait QB's into throwing some to his side. He's very smart & sets QB's up. However, he has some trouble turning & running.

                  Deltha O'Neal has 100% better technique now. He never gambles. What he does now is simply stick to receivers so tight that he looks like the receiver. His hands are so good that all he has to do is get close & the ball gets stuck to him like he has glue on his hands.

                  You guys didn't miss much by letting James go. He's a very good corner, but can be beaten. However, O'Neal just didn't have the coaching in Denver at his position. Our Corners Coach is a guy named Kevin Coyle & had him fixed by about the 4th game of 2004. I don't think Shanahan gave up on him. I think your Cornerbacks coach blew it.

                  Now, about our pass rush. We have the worst pass rush in the NFL. Our defensive line is pathetic. The fact that James & O'Neal have combined for 14 Interceptions is directly attributable to there excellent coverage skills.

                  Both these guys know how to play. Also, they are best friends.

                  James might have 2 more years as a starter, then I think he can move to nickle back duty. O'Neal on the other hand, has a long long time to shine.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ONeal
                    Deltha O'Neal has 100% better technique now. He never gambles. What he does now is simply stick to receivers so tight that he looks like the receiver. His hands are so good that all he has to do is get close & the ball gets stuck to him like he has glue on his hands.
                    Well O'Neal has the physical talent. He lost confidence here. I'm glad to see him do well, I just hope it doesen't bite us in the behind later.

                    BTW Welcome to the boards
                    You've got to know when to sack em...

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                    • #25
                      deltha was a liablitly, hes always gotten picks. But he falls over once a game and gives up a TD
                      sigpic

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bokyong
                        People like you always come and post about how this guy is good and we were wrong by trading or letting him go. Hindsight is 20/20. It's easy to say this now that O'neal is having a good year in Cincy. I bet if Gardner went and kicked some ass on another team poeple like you would post we shouldnt have let Gardner go.

                        A Change of Scenery is good for someone like O'neal who obviously had motivational problems. He thought he was the man after his 1 good season and slacked in practice. It showed on the field. By him going to Cincy he had to go there and prove he was still good. So the change of scenery motivated him to practice and get his head out of his ass. SO Yes Change of scenery does make a difference.

                        You know we got DJ right with that O'neal trade right?
                        No, I think he asked a fair question.

                        I believe it was well answered in this thread, but I don't believe we need to come down on CasualFan for asking it.

                        -----

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RBDynasty
                          In other words, they are the AFC's version of the Fakehawks. Or was it the Seafrauds?
                          Comparing the NFC West to the AFC North is a joke.
                          HEAR ME ROAR!
                          sigpic
                          Thanks to Freyaka for the great sig!

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                          • #28
                            But thisi s realy point less....


                            we got DJ out of it, and we have champ....Champ is better then both of them...and then Dj is here also, who is really good

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by sharp_shepherd
                              I was always a fan of Tory James and Deltha Oneil. But when James hurt his knee Shanny thought he couldn't recover and Oneil had an attitude problem with Shanny. Could they cover....your damn right they could. I think they are two of the best in the league.
                              I like Tory James

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                              • #30
                                yeah, they sure look good today. Holcomb is on coarse to pass for over 400+ yards on them today the way things are going. hahaha.

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