Jakes No John.

[patfan44]

Let me start by saying I have nothing but the highest respect for your tradition-rich franchise. That said, and having read some of the posts here, this is my two-part question...

What evidence do any of you have that Jake Plummer is really better than the below-average quarterback his numbers proclaim him to be? And that Tom Brady is really worse than the winner HIS numbers proclaim him to be?

The numbers that matter to me: In a far shorter career, Brady has led more 4th-Quarter comebacks (9 to 8), won a Super Bowl ring, and led the league in touchdown passes in his only full season.

Again, I'm not trying to start an iternational incident here, but the consensus seems to be that the Broncos were robbed last night because of Plummer's absence. (To which I point out that the Pats played without their 2 best defensive players in Richard Seymour and Roosevelt Colvin). In truth, what cost the Broncos the game was Shanahan's bizarre abandonment of the running game in the final minutes.

Am interest in your thoughts...

[bronco30]

you would be right about the number between plummer and brady. but plummer was playin real well till the injury and the offensive was goin very good. which always helps the defense. but now the offense cant over come a simple penalty example: late 4th quarter trying to run out the clock lepsis false starts on 2nd and 8 now 2nd n 13 even if denver runs twice and NE burns final TO. they punt your still in same field position at your own i think was 39 but now w/ 2:00 minutes left. you still drive down in field goal range or TD no need for sideline patterns bcuzz time is no problem denver would a been in same defense.

as bad as pass def was it was the miscue of oneal on the punt after the safety not fielding it at the 30 n prolly ends up at their own 35-40 yd line at least instead of the 16. major field possesion change when denver punted back to NE w/ no TO instead it was 1 TO on own 39.

[dfrivers]

in my opinion, plummer being the starter last night would have made no difference at all. It was the denver D (secondary)that lost that game. Being a die hard Broncos fan, that was one of the most dissapointing games i have ever seen. Left a very sour taste in my mouth!

[Woody]

Re: Question for Bronco fans

Originally posted by patfan44
Let me start by saying I have nothing but the highest respect for your tradition-rich franchise. That said, and having read some of the posts here, this is my two-part question...

What evidence do any of you have that Jake Plummer is really better than the below-average quarterback his numbers proclaim him to be? And that Tom Brady is really worse than the winner HIS numbers proclaim him to be?

The numbers that matter to me: In a far shorter career, Brady has led more 4th-Quarter comebacks (9 to 8), won a Super Bowl ring, and led the league in touchdown passes in his only full season.

Again, I'm not trying to start an iternational incident here, but the consensus seems to be that the Broncos were robbed last night because of Plummer's absence. (To which I point out that the Pats played without their 2 best defensive players in Richard Seymour and Roosevelt Colvin). In truth, what cost the Broncos the game was Shanahan's bizarre abandonment of the running game in the final minutes.

Am interest in your thoughts...

Plummers stats were with Arizona. If John Elway played his career with the team Arizona has every year, he would look average according to stats as well. I dont think the lack of running killed us, I think being forced to punt from your 30 - 35 yard line a few times due to not having a kicker killed us. Either way, your team played good, and had injuries just like we did, although not quite as severe (Denver was missing 2 QB's, 2 Off. Linemen, 2 linebackers, a starting reciever, and their kicker), you guys pulled it out and deserve the win. Good game, and good luck he rest of the year.

[uknowit]

the team

the whole team is a let down. Sure they have injuries , but so did the Pats. The Pats team didn't quit. With 2 minutes left all the players got lazy thinking its in the bag. The coach is responsible for getting them ready for the game. They were ready for the beginning but they got lazy and tired at the end.

[LawDog]

I didn't see it as quitting. When the free kick after the safety left us deep in our own end (for whatever reason) it seemed to rattle them, i.e. the false start on 2nd down. With better field position, I think we would have had more confidence and controlled the ball better. It's obviously hard to read minds, but that's the perception that I had.

[breTTus]

it's all a question of systems/schemes that the QB is in... Plummer in AZ was in the wrong system for his style of play... just as Griese was wrong in DEN... also note that the only time that Brady was thought to be in the 'right' place was in his SB season... last year the questions were being thrown in his direction.... this game was won or lost on a great number of things, but to my mind an intact 'starting' LB corps and not losing your only (??) dude that can boot FG's and this becomes a W...

edit:... of course, now everyone again thinks that Brady 'fits' his system... forgot that... ...

[JohnElwayTheMan]

Is the current bronco team a reflection of the 1988-1994 team?

In the 88-94 bronco raign. we had an awsom Quarterback. But no pass protection. Now we have the pass protection and no Quarterback. I do not think Plummer has proven he has what it takes to be a bronco. He is truly a snake slithers his way out of games. This snake is going to spook the bronco team and send us bucking on down to a loosing record. Oh do not get me wrong the broncos will have there moment. But then again they always do. Good or bad the broncos will contenue to have there moments. But moments are just that. you can not win a championship with moments. Like I said this team reflects that of 1988-1994 bronco team. Bring back # 7. OUT.

[JohnElwayTheMan]

Jakes No John.

John Elway missed 15 starts in 17 years. Jake Plummer has missed 4 and counting starts. In 9 games. something is wrong there. We are no better off right now than we were with Brian Greasie. We need to but something togather. because are recivers are not getting any younger. I predict the broncos will see 3-5 dormant years before we rise to the ocassion. and be a dominant force in the AFC. again. Bring back # 7. OUT.

[Javalon]

Re: Jakes No John.

Originally posted by JohnElwayTheMan
John Elway missed 15 starts in 17 years. Jake Plummer has missed 4 and counting starts. In 9 games. something is wrong there. We are no better off right now than we were with Brian Greasie. We need to but something togather. because are recivers are not getting any younger. I predict the broncos will see 3-5 dormant years before we rise to the ocassion. and be a dominant force in the AFC. again. Bring back # 7. OUT.

No offense but do you not realize just how fortunate John Elway was with injures (or the lack thereof) in his career? I thought John was incredible but I'm fairly sure he wasn't made of steel.

Jake played all 16 games the past 2 seasons for the Cards. It was bad luck that he got hurt early in his first season with the Broncos. The shoulder injury he suffered was because he laid himself out to get a crucial first down in that game. The broken bone in his foot, contrary to popular belief, didn't just "pop" when he got off the couch for no particular reason. The foot was originally stepped on hard in the Chiefs game and the doctors are pretty certain he suffered a minor hairline fracture that didn't show up in initial x-rays. The continual stress placed upon it eventually caused it to snap the rest of the way.

I also don't think it was a fluke that the Broncos started off 5-1 this season. Injuries took their toll at the toughest point in our schedule and the record shows it. The Broncos have a decent shot at still making the playoffs this season. Next season who knows how the draft and free agency will change the face of the Broncos? It's fairly difficult to predict what teams will do each season in this league where worst-to-first and first-to-worst is fairly commonplace. Just ask the Chiefs (worst-to-first), Cowboys(worst-to-first), Panthers (worst-to-first), Steelers (first-to-worst), Jets (first-to-worst), and Raiders (first-to-almost-worst).

[Jared]

Re: Jakes No John.

Originally posted by JohnElwayTheMan
John Elway missed 15 starts in 17 years. Jake Plummer has missed 4 and counting starts. In 9 games. something is wrong there. We are no better off right now than we were with Brian Greasie. We need to but something togather. because are recivers are not getting any younger. I predict the broncos will see 3-5 dormant years before we rise to the ocassion. and be a dominant force in the AFC. again. Bring back # 7. OUT.

Umm...injuries are just luck man. I would consider Elway lucky for only missing 15 starts. But for some reason, I think the number is higher.

Nothing is wrong there, you can't predict injuries. It is also never a player's fault if he gets injured during a game. Now Jeff Kent, or Jay Williams, that's a different story.

I think you are seeing this the wrong way. Its not a matter of Jake Plummer doing something wrong, but John Elway having been lucky enough to never have sustained a severe enough injury to keep him out of many games. Especially the way he scrambled in his early days.