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John Elway a pocket passer?

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  • John Elway a pocket passer?

    I have been having an ongoing argument with a buddy of mine at work. I thought I would bring it here and consult the experts.

    My friend absoulutely hates Jake Plummer. He calls Plummer a "horrible quarterback" and does not understand why most Broncos fans are blinded to his "crappy play". In retort I stated that Jake Plummer is exactly the type of quarterback that we need on the Broncos and he works very well with our system. I said that we need a quarterback that can scramble and roll out. My friend is a huge Colts fan, so I told him that if we were to put Peyton Manning in our current system he would be an average quarterback and wouldn't put up huge numbers.

    He then stated that John Elway was a pocket passer and did well. I disagree with him. I believe that John Elway was a more accurate passer than Plummer, however, he preffered to roll out and was indeed a scrambling quarterback.

    So what do you think? What type of QB was John Elway?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Sburk!
    I have been having an ongoing argument with a buddy of mine at work. I thought I would bring it here and consult the experts.

    My friend absoulutely hates Jake Plummer. He calls Plummer a "horrible quarterback" and does not understand why most Broncos fans are blinded to his "crappy play". In retort I stated that Jake Plummer is exactly the type of quarterback that we need on the Broncos and he works very well with our system. I said that we need a quarterback that can scramble and roll out. My friend is a huge Colts fan, so I told him that if we were to put Peyton Manning in our current system he would be an average quarterback and wouldn't put up huge numbers.

    He then stated that John Elway was a pocket passer and did well. I disagree with him. I believe that John Elway was a more accurate passer than Plummer, however, he preffered to roll out and was indeed a scrambling quarterback.

    So what do you think? What type of QB was John Elway?
    definitely a scrambling quarterback, but in later years (with age obviously) he did tend to pass from the pocket........

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    • #3
      John Elway was true 5 tool player and probably felt equally comfotable in and out of the pocket.

      He did more damage out of the pocket when defense had to adjust and sometimes broke down and made mistakes.

      Everybody's gotta elevate from the norm...

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      • #4
        The reason why he is thought among a lot of experts as the greatest to ever play the position is because he could make plays from anywhere on the field and in any formation. IMHO, to try and put a label on him is a disservice.

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        • #5
          Obviously your friend just agrees with ESPN and everything ESPN says about Jake (my friends are like that too)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Jared
            John Elway was true 5 tool player and probably felt equally comfotable in and out of the pocket.

            He did more damage out of the pocket when defense had to adjust and sometimes broke down and made mistakes.
            I agree completely on this.

            Early in the career Dan tried to make him a pocket passer which he was good at, but the nanosecond he felt threatened he left the pocket and did his thing which usually killed the defenses, cause they could not contain him. If they did his receivers were making nice with him, by keeping active and getting open. Almost NO defense can cover everyone down field for 8-15 seconds every play.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Jared
              John Elway was true 5 tool player and probably felt equally comfotable in and out of the pocket.

              He did more damage out of the pocket when defense had to adjust and sometimes broke down and made mistakes.
              well Put.....

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sburk!
                I have been having an ongoing argument with a buddy of mine at work. I thought I would bring it here and consult the experts.

                My friend absoulutely hates Jake Plummer. He calls Plummer a "horrible quarterback" and does not understand why most Broncos fans are blinded to his "crappy play". In retort I stated that Jake Plummer is exactly the type of quarterback that we need on the Broncos and he works very well with our system. I said that we need a quarterback that can scramble and roll out. My friend is a huge Colts fan, so I told him that if we were to put Peyton Manning in our current system he would be an average quarterback and wouldn't put up huge numbers.

                He then stated that John Elway was a pocket passer and did well. I disagree with him. I believe that John Elway was a more accurate passer than Plummer, however, he preffered to roll out and was indeed a scrambling quarterback.

                So what do you think? What type of QB was John Elway?
                Although I understand your point... I DO have to disagree with you. Manning would NOT be an average QB in our system. Our system would work VERY well with Manning. It worked well with Brian Griese at the helm, and Brian is no scrambler. Manning could thrive anywhere.

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                • #9
                  First I think it is disrespectful of you guys to say #7's name. When referring to J.E. please use the reference #7, thank you. { j/k, I always wanted to say that}

                  Now, #7 can only be defined as a QB and could not be defined as anything other. He did every thing quite well. When he dropped back as a pocket passer, he was great doing it. When he had to scramble and or roll out to make a pass he was great doing that.
                  Last edited by Emancipator; 01-11-2006, 11:33 PM.
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                  • #10
                    Also consider that Shanahan would change the system to fit his starting QB. If Manning was a Bronco Shanahan would design plays that worked to his strengths.
                    Dennis Smith, Simon Fletcher, Steve Atwater, Terrell Davis and Rod Smith all belong in the Hall of Fame.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Emancipator
                      First I think it is disrespectful of you guys to say #7 name. When referring to J.E. please use the reference #7, thank you. { j/k, I always wanted to say that}

                      Now, #7 was a QB and could not be defined as either. He did both quite well. He when he dropped back as a pocket passer and he was great when he had to scramble and or roll out to make a pass.
                      Its ok.. you CAN say his name as long as you douse your lips in holy water afterwards.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SM19
                        Well, to be fair, Brian was playing in a different system. Denver's offense then was closer to a true West Coast offense, with Griese mostly throwing short passes from the pocket. Today's Denver passing offense, with all the bootlegs and downfield throws, was more or less designed around Jake.
                        Same system... plays run differently. Exactly my point. Our system ran well with a pocket passer, and with a mobil passer.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by AWT
                          Also consider that Shanahan would change the system to fit his starting QB. If Manning was a Bronco Shanahan would design plays that worked to his strengths.
                          Yep. You cater your offense to the strengths of your team. If we had a QB like Manning, our offense would be tweaked to take advantage of the skill set he brings to the table.

                          Back to the original poster though, you can't really put a label like "pocket passer" on a player the caliber of Elway. He was much more than a one-dimensional player, wether in the pocket or out. He quite frankly, as others have already mentioned, could do it all. There wasn't a throw or play that Elway could not execute.
                          Where does the abuse of end? Where?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sburk!
                            I have been having an ongoing argument with a buddy of mine at work. I thought I would bring it here and consult the experts.

                            My friend absoulutely hates Jake Plummer. He calls Plummer a "horrible quarterback" and does not understand why most Broncos fans are blinded to his "crappy play". In retort I stated that Jake Plummer is exactly the type of quarterback that we need on the Broncos and he works very well with our system. I said that we need a quarterback that can scramble and roll out. My friend is a huge Colts fan, so I told him that if we were to put Peyton Manning in our current system he would be an average quarterback and wouldn't put up huge numbers.

                            He then stated that John Elway was a pocket passer and did well. I disagree with him. I believe that John Elway was a more accurate passer than Plummer, however, he preffered to roll out and was indeed a scrambling quarterback.

                            So what do you think? What type of QB was John Elway?
                            Doesn't you friend has a nickname? maybe bronco_mtnman?



                            :salute:

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bronco_f1
                              Doesn't you friend has a nickname? maybe bronco_mtnman?
                              That's good!!!

                              Anyway, I am not going to get into what Jake is or isn't, I spent too much time a week or so ago on that topic.

                              As to Elway. There is no question that throughout his career his coaches called designed rollouts, but I don't think anywhere near as much as Jake does.

                              I would call Elway a pocket passer, who had the ability to execute QB drawers, nacked bootleg runs, and most importantly, when the pocket broke down, he had the mobility and strength to get out of the pocket and either by time to complete a pass or take off running.

                              As someone mentioned, that is the reason he is the greatest of all time. You can't label him. Elway could do whatever was required. There is zero doubt in my mind that if he had the line that protected Marino for the first half of his career, Elway would own every record. He would have sat in the pocket more and picked D's apart, but still had the abilty to move if the pocket broke down.
                              The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt

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