Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Portis vs Bailey--You make the call

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Portis vs Bailey--You make the call

    Here are Champ Bailey's career stats:

    1999 Redskins Tackles: 78 Int: 5 Int Yds: 55 TD: 1
    2000 Redskins Tackles: 62 Int: 5 Int Yds: 48 TD: 0
    2001 Redskins Tackles: 50 Int: 3 Int Yds: 17 TD: 0
    2002 Redskins Tackles: 68 Int: 3 Int Yds: 2 TD: 0
    2003 Redskins Tackles: 71 Int: 2 Int Yds: 2 TD: 0

    Here are Clinton Portis career stats:

    2002 Broncos Rush: 1508 Avg: 5.5 Long: 59 TD: 15
    2003 Broncos Rush: 1591 Avg: 5.5 Long: 65 TD: 14

    Who got the better deal--Broncos or Redskins??

  • #2
    how do you tell by stats? They play 2 different positions.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by EddyMac87
      how do you tell by stats? They play 2 different positions.
      True. Evaluate each player stats against other players at their respective positions. In other words, how does Portis stats compare to other RB's and how does Champ's stats compare to other CB's? Based on what you find out, which player is most likely to have a greater impact on their new teams?

      If you don't like stat comparisons, compare actual game performance. Which player did the most to help their team at their respective positions?

      Comment


      • #4
        I do believe portis is more talented then champ, however we need champ more then we do portis.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by EddyMac87
          I do believe portis is more talented then champ, however we need champ more then we do portis.
          You need Champ more than Portis??? Look at his stats again.

          2002 Broncos Rush: 1508 Avg: 5.5 Long: 59 TD: 15
          2003 Broncos Rush: 1591 Avg: 5.5 Long: 65 TD: 14

          Portis was on course to break the Broncos career rushing record within 3-4 years. By that time he would have just been reaching his prime age of 25-26. Portis is perhaps the only current active RB who has a chance at breaking Emmitt Smith's career rushing record. Again, notice the 5.5 career average. Now check the "lifetime" career rushing leaders (Top 20) and you will notice only 3 players with a career rushing average of 5+ yards: Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, and Joe Perry. I realize that Portis is only two years into his career compared to a lifetime of the players above. So compare Portis first two years to Broncos career rushing leader Terrell Davis's first two years and Portis's numbers are still better. I guess you didn't need Terrell Davis either? You may need Champ but not at the expense of potentially your career rushing leader. This move was dumb--even if Portis don't work out for the Skins because he played magnificent in the Broncos system and now you're scratching your head trying to find another RB to replace him. Not to mention, the RB position is the second most critical position on the team only surpassed by the QB position. Why, because the RB touches the ball more than any other player on the team except the QB. Why Denver thinks their CB position is more important than their RB position baffles me.

          Comment


          • #6
            We got the better of the deal by far, shanahan is an offensive minded coach, defensive coaching is not his style. so to put it to good use, he loaded up the talent on the defensive side so he doesnt have to coach as much, its the same thing dungy by switching to the colts and look how far he went. Bailey is more talented than portis, portis is a great back, but nobody can deny he was the 4th product of the system(behind davis gary anderson) We will run the ball we have a good back in Q and still a great system, meanwhile the position we have struggled in (DB) gets a bonified probowler. Brocnos made the right decision.
            dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

            I tried to warn ya.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Derock
              You need Champ more than Portis??? Look at his stats again.

              2002 Broncos Rush: 1508 Avg: 5.5 Long: 59 TD: 15
              2003 Broncos Rush: 1591 Avg: 5.5 Long: 65 TD: 14

              Portis was on course to break the Broncos career rushing record within 3-4 years. By that time he would have just been reaching his prime age of 25-26. Portis is perhaps the only current active RB who has a chance at breaking Emmitt Smith's career rushing record. Again, notice the 5.5 career average. Now check the "lifetime" career rushing leaders (Top 20) and you will notice only 3 players with a career rushing average of 5+ yards: Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, and Joe Perry. I realize that Portis is only two years into his career compared to a lifetime of the players above. So compare Portis first two years to Broncos career rushing leader Terrell Davis's first two years and Portis's numbers are still better. I guess you didn't need Terrell Davis either? You may need Champ but not at the expense of potentially your career rushing leader. This move was dumb--even if Portis don't work out for the Skins because he played magnificent in the Broncos system and now you're scratching your head trying to find another RB to replace him. Not to mention, the RB position is the second most critical position on the team only surpassed by the QB position. Why, because the RB touches the ball more than any other player on the team except the QB. Why Denver thinks their CB position is more important than their RB position baffles me.
              well obviously you havent watched football lately, the last couple of superbowl winners were defensive powerhouses and offensive nobodies for RB. We have had the top running game for like 7 years, yet we havent won anythin that way lately, defensive teams keep beating us. Portis wasnt the first or last to run well for our team, so why you put all your faith in him is what baffles ME. You act like portis leaving means we wont gain another yard on the ground and it just aint true. Bailey is a great CB, Portis is a great RB, throw in the fact that we have had NO great CB's lately and have had PLENTY great RB's lately, its not hard to add 1+1.
              dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

              I tried to warn ya.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Return of Lava
                well obviously you havent watched football lately, the last couple of superbowl winners were defensive powerhouses and offensive nobodies for RB. We have had the top running game for like 7 years, yet we havent won anythin that way lately, defensive teams keep beating us. Portis wasnt the first or last to run well for our team, so why you put all your faith in him is what baffles ME. You act like portis leaving means we wont gain another yard on the ground and it just aint true. Bailey is a great CB, Portis is a great RB, throw in the fact that we have had NO great CB's lately and have had PLENTY great RB's lately, its not hard to add 1+1.
                Bailey is a great CB? What makes you think Bailey is such a great CB? Did you not see the stats I posted on him??? Is it because he made the pro bowl? Well, I believe the pro bowl is more of a popularity contest and Champ is a well known corner but have you actually watched him play lately? He stinks. Maybe you have so much faith in Champ because Lord Shanahan said we should keep faith and trust that he knows what he's doing. Also, if you felt defensive teams were beating you with Portis what do you think they are going to do to you WITHOUT him?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Derock
                  Bailey is a great CB? What makes you think Bailey is such a great CB? Did you not see the stats I posted on him??? Is it because he made the pro bowl? Well, I believe the pro bowl is more of a popularity contest and Champ is a well known corner but have you actually watched him play lately? He stinks. Maybe you have so much faith in Champ because Lord Shanahan said we should keep faith and trust that he knows what he's doing. Also, if you felt defensive teams were beating you with Portis what do you think they are going to do to you WITHOUT him?
                  you obviously havent watched our running game over the years, its not hard to run in our system, even Griffin gained 136 in his only start. What makes you think Griffin cant gain 136 yards again? Champ Bailey is reagarded a great CB WITHOUT playing in a CB friendly system, teams throw away from him. I'm sure you can understand that if a CB is very good, you avoid him, stats are blinding you my friend. Champ's int numbers dont go down by coincidence, its cause QB's aint messin with him anymore, they are throwing to the other side thats why his numbers dropped. We need a Cb to shore up our weakness at secondary, if you know the brocnos you know we have struggled at secondary over the years, with champ we are not struggling, without portis we didnt struggle either, Griffin came right in and gained 136 so we WILL run the ball whether portis is here or not.
                  dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                  I tried to warn ya.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Derock
                    You need Champ more than Portis??? Look at his stats again.

                    2002 Broncos Rush: 1508 Avg: 5.5 Long: 59 TD: 15
                    2003 Broncos Rush: 1591 Avg: 5.5 Long: 65 TD: 14

                    Portis was on course to break the Broncos career rushing record within 3-4 years. By that time he would have just been reaching his prime age of 25-26. Portis is perhaps the only current active RB who has a chance at breaking Emmitt Smith's career rushing record. Again, notice the 5.5 career average. Now check the "lifetime" career rushing leaders (Top 20) and you will notice only 3 players with a career rushing average of 5+ yards: Barry Sanders, Jim Brown, and Joe Perry. I realize that Portis is only two years into his career compared to a lifetime of the players above. So compare Portis first two years to Broncos career rushing leader Terrell Davis's first two years and Portis's numbers are still better. I guess you didn't need Terrell Davis either? You may need Champ but not at the expense of potentially your career rushing leader. This move was dumb--even if Portis don't work out for the Skins because he played magnificent in the Broncos system and now you're scratching your head trying to find another RB to replace him. Not to mention, the RB position is the second most critical position on the team only surpassed by the QB position. Why, because the RB touches the ball more than any other player on the team except the QB. Why Denver thinks their CB position is more important than their RB position baffles me.
                    Boo Hoo! So your boy is on a different team. GET OVER IT! ITS DONE! You people! Nothing like kicking the dead horse! I suppose you're still pissed off about the doctor smacking your azz when you were born. Again, GET OVER IT! ITS DONE!
                    If you miss him so much, turn your reversable coat inside out and becom a 'skins fan. GOOD RIDDANCE!
                    How many games did the broncos lose last year with cp playing?
                    Wow! That many?! The only people that care about stats are the fans so they can brag up their 'boy' or fantasy football players so they can win the $$$prize. IN REAL LIFE, stats don't mean squat. Stats don't win games. Stats don't get you into heaven. Stats DO make for bigger signing bonuses and contracts, but that is it!
                    Denver hasn't really had a problem scoring points, unless they come up against a really good defense, ala ravens, steelers,ets.
                    Their biggest problem has been stopping the other team from scoring points (even that hight powered juggernaut of an offense in baltimore). You know, they call it defense. Now before you chime in and retort "but statistically, they had the 4th best defense", notice the word statistically. There it is again. But you know what? Where was that statistic in those losses?
                    The defense has played 'statisically' ok, but how many games were there against really ****ty offenses? You think that might somehow sway the statistics? How many yards did they give up to San Diego - - - twice?
                    Denver NEEDED to upgrade its defense MORE than anything else.
                    Period! They don't NEED a 5.5ypc avg. in a rb. What did it get them? WooHooo! Excitement!
                    I'd rather have a rb that averages 4.5 ypc, moves the stick consistently, doesn't take 'breathers' after 15 yard runs, and WANTS to be a leader on the offense. Sound familiar? Yeh, TD.
                    Sounds to me the only reason you people want cp in denver is because he'll be a 'superstar' and break some records. All I have to say to that is look at detroit. What'd their rb do for them? Win any championships?
                    So GET OVER IT! ITS DONE!
                    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                    tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                    men."

                    -- Samuel Adams

                    sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Return of Lava
                      you obviously havent watched our running game over the years, its not hard to run in our system, even Griffin gained 136 in his only start. What makes you think Griffin cant gain 136 yards again? Champ Bailey is reagarded a great CB WITHOUT playing in a CB friendly system, teams throw away from him. I'm sure you can understand that if a CB is very good, you avoid him, stats are blinding you my friend. Champ's int numbers dont go down by coincidence, its cause QB's aint messin with him anymore, they are throwing to the other side thats why his numbers dropped. We need a Cb to shore up our weakness at secondary, if you know the brocnos you know we have struggled at secondary over the years, with champ we are not struggling, without portis we didnt struggle either, Griffin came right in and gained 136 so we WILL run the ball whether portis is here or not.
                      Man stop listening to the media hype about Champ being this great corner and look at the stats. When you finish looking at the stats then look at him actually play in a game. See for yourself, then decide for yourself if he is a shutdown corner. Here are some of the assignments Champ had in 2003 so you can see how "great" of a shutdown corner he was for the Skins.

                      Amani Toomer - 4 catches, 81 yards, 1 TD
                      Troy Brown - 7 catches, 60 yards
                      Keyshawn Johnson - 4 catches, 80 yards, 1 TD
                      Josh Reed - 8 catches, 109 yards, 1 TD
                      Terry Glenn - 6 catches, 73 yards, 1 TD
                      Mushin Muhammad - 9 catches, 189 yards
                      Marty Booker - 4 catches, 80 yards, 1 TD

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        stats

                        *looking at your stats on the receivers *..

                        wow.. where does this show Me what defense the Redskins were playing at the time? Where does it show Me how many times Champ was matched up man-man? where does it show me who was coving the receiver when the TD pass was caught? where does it show me if the safety blew the middle support?

                        This again shows me nothing.. but I know this... I'll take the word from the MANY experts in the league that say and how good Champ is. Do you think that Mike and our coaching staff just listened to the 'hype' of Champ Bailey without watching game film of him? Do you think they just picked a person because of his pro-bowl popularity contest? I would say they did their research and study of Champ's play before pulling this trigger. Considering THEY know what they are talking about more than someone that has a crush on Clinton..... I'll listen to the experts.

                        Not to mention we got champ AND the second round pick... what round did we get Portis in?
                        Last edited by Ravage!!!; 03-06-2004, 01:38 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here is another thing that is in a way related, look at Antoine Winfield, he's had 6 int's in 5 seasons, and he only had 37 passes deflected, and he to is considered one of the better corner backs in the leauge. ya know it's true that they are gonna throw away from a better db and i guess well see, denver has had horrible choices at drafting DB's but look at free agents, Braxton anyone?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            i dont know what derock's beef is. if it is about losing portis, he is a ryder. Griffin got 136 i will keep sayin it. 136 spreadover 16 games is 2160 yards griffin would be on pace for. Befor you flip out i am bnot syaing he will get that much, but if he can come close to that it is by no means a struggle to run the football.

                            if your beef is with the champ, you have problems. our secondary was struggling everybody knew that. We had 1st year starters at almost every position. i thought they played well for 1st year starters but there is a LOT of room for improvement and champ is a start for the improvement. You may not think he is anything special, but you are a fool if you think he isnt an upgrade over Walls or Herndon.
                            dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                            I tried to warn ya.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rcsodak
                              Boo Hoo! So your boy is on a different team. GET OVER IT! ITS DONE! You people! Nothing like kicking the dead horse! I suppose you're still pissed off about the doctor smacking your azz when you were born. Again, GET OVER IT! ITS DONE!
                              If you miss him so much, turn your reversable coat inside out and becom a 'skins fan. GOOD RIDDANCE!
                              How many games did the broncos lose last year with cp playing?
                              Wow! That many?! The only people that care about stats are the fans so they can brag up their 'boy' or fantasy football players so they can win the $$$prize. IN REAL LIFE, stats don't mean squat. Stats don't win games. Stats don't get you into heaven. Stats DO make for bigger signing bonuses and contracts, but that is it!
                              Denver hasn't really had a problem scoring points, unless they come up against a really good defense, ala ravens, steelers,ets.
                              Their biggest problem has been stopping the other team from scoring points (even that hight powered juggernaut of an offense in baltimore). You know, they call it defense. Now before you chime in and retort "but statistically, they had the 4th best defense", notice the word statistically. There it is again. But you know what? Where was that statistic in those losses?
                              The defense has played 'statisically' ok, but how many games were there against really ****ty offenses? You think that might somehow sway the statistics? How many yards did they give up to San Diego - - - twice?
                              Denver NEEDED to upgrade its defense MORE than anything else.
                              Period! They don't NEED a 5.5ypc avg. in a rb. What did it get them? WooHooo! Excitement!
                              I'd rather have a rb that averages 4.5 ypc, moves the stick consistently, doesn't take 'breathers' after 15 yard runs, and WANTS to be a leader on the offense. Sound familiar? Yeh, TD.
                              Sounds to me the only reason you people want cp in denver is because he'll be a 'superstar' and break some records. All I have to say to that is look at detroit. What'd their rb do for them? Win any championships?
                              So GET OVER IT! ITS DONE!
                              Dallas had a 'superstar' also. You heard of him, some guy name Emmitt Smith...broke a few records too and won 3 (or was it 4) Superbowls along with it. With that I'm going to "try" and leave this subject alone. I wish Champ and Portis the best with their new teams.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X