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gerard warren will not be resigned

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  • theshiverman
    replied
    Originally posted by cdawg1001
    he wont be, my friend just heard it on nfl network
    Ah, i think he will, buts thats just my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Colorado69
    replied
    What a riot post!

    Reading all the back and forth growling and posturing is like watching a soap opera. No, I don't really watch any. It doesn't matter what WE think anyway, so I'm glad everyone (except MUG, of course) has agreed to disagree. Warren can help, but he isn't the best at the position, just better than anyone else presently on the Broncos. If he asks for an unreasonable amount, let him walk and use the draft and free-agency to replace him. When the CBA is settled, part of the extra $10 million can be used to replace him. Who knows? It will be one of the more interesting dramas of the next few weeks.

    Leave a comment:


  • bcbronc
    replied
    Originally posted by GoBrOnCoS16
    agree to disagree.

    deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • GoBrOnCoS16
    replied
    Originally posted by bcbronc
    huh? sign for more than $10 million? i never said anything about $10m. heck, i wouldnt sign him for half that. did i say warren is the best tackle in the league? in fact i made a point of saying that he is not. i simply said he did a lot better than the stiffs we had before (and even beside to some degree) him. how is that talking like he is the tom brady of defensive lineman? his role of taking up blockers and pushing the pocket back is an important one in our scheme, and he did that very well.

    you are convinced that there are so many guys that can produce way way way more effective pressure? why? is coyer going to change the system and actually have the tackles do something? all of these prospects are guaranteed hits? not a bust in the lot? i guarantee you that there will be at least one bust in the first 5 defensive tackles drafted. and i would be shocked if it was only one.

    so all i have said and am saying is that warren is a piece of the dline puzzle that we did not have two years ago; a big, strong, relatively athletic guy that demands double teams and ties up blockers like the system demands of him. some are saying he sucks and we should just let him go because of his stats. i am saying if we lose that pressence in the middle, it is a crap shoot at best that we replace him. if we do not then it does not matter if we get a speed rusher or not, because the qb will just be able to step up in the well formed pocket. a rookie may or may not fill the void, but i do not want to pin our playoff hopes on a rookie tackle and a rookie end when you consider how many times defensive lineman bust.

    so again, i am not saying warren is the greatest tackle in the league. i am not saying we should sign him at any number. what i am saying is that he played well last season and having him back is much better than not having him back IF THE NUMBERS ARE REASONABLE.
    agree to disagree.

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  • bcbronc
    replied
    Originally posted by GoBrOnCoS16
    He wasnt that good. I'm sorry. But in my eyes (statistically or not) Trevor Pryce was our best D-lineman and the broncos cut him. What makes you think they'll re-sign Warren for more than 10 million? He's not worth it. I'm not arguing that he wasnt a big part of our defense but, the way you talk about him is like he's Tom Brady of Defensive Lineman!! Open your eyes, there are a lot of guys in this upcoming draft, and i do mean A LOT, that can produce way way way more effective pressure than Warren did. There's no reason to re-sign him unless it's for less money. Period.

    huh? sign for more than $10 million? i never said anything about $10m. heck, i wouldnt sign him for half that. did i say warren is the best tackle in the league? in fact i made a point of saying that he is not. i simply said he did a lot better than the stiffs we had before (and even beside to some degree) him. how is that talking like he is the tom brady of defensive lineman? his role of taking up blockers and pushing the pocket back is an important one in our scheme, and he did that very well.

    you are convinced that there are so many guys that can produce way way way more effective pressure? why? is coyer going to change the system and actually have the tackles do something? all of these prospects are guaranteed hits? not a bust in the lot? i guarantee you that there will be at least one bust in the first 5 defensive tackles drafted. and i would be shocked if it was only one.

    so all i have said and am saying is that warren is a piece of the dline puzzle that we did not have two years ago; a big, strong, relatively athletic guy that demands double teams and ties up blockers like the system demands of him. some are saying he sucks and we should just let him go because of his stats. i am saying if we lose that pressence in the middle, it is a crap shoot at best that we replace him. if we do not then it does not matter if we get a speed rusher or not, because the qb will just be able to step up in the well formed pocket. a rookie may or may not fill the void, but i do not want to pin our playoff hopes on a rookie tackle and a rookie end when you consider how many times defensive lineman bust.

    so again, i am not saying warren is the greatest tackle in the league. i am not saying we should sign him at any number. what i am saying is that he played well last season and having him back is much better than not having him back IF THE NUMBERS ARE REASONABLE.

    Leave a comment:


  • GoBrOnCoS16
    replied
    Originally posted by bcbronc
    whether you want to call it a "two gap" system or "some hodgepodge of one gap clogging" the end result is the same; our defensive tackles job is not to make the tackle, but to ensure the linebackers can. and since even our linebackers had unimpressive stats, judging warren on his numbers is not a fair way to evaluate his play, imo.

    we definately did a better job of getting pressure this year. yes it was because of the blitz, but its not like we werent blitzing last year. all last offseason the talk was needing to get pressure without blitzing, just as it is this year. the difference is this year we had a pressence in the middle of the line who constantly took up two blockers, allowing the blitz to be more effective. you know how hard it is to find quality interior lineman that can make a difference. warren showed he can play at a quality level. why we would want to throw that away and go backwards in talent or take a chance on a rookie is beyond me.

    again, i am not saying we should sign warren at any cost. but he did do a good job within this system. imo, he was easily the best player on our dline. as long as he can be signed at a decent number, getting him back is a big plus for our team.
    He wasnt that good. I'm sorry. But in my eyes (statistically or not) Trevor Pryce was our best D-lineman and the broncos cut him. What makes you think they'll re-sign Warren for more than 10 million? He's not worth it. I'm not arguing that he wasnt a big part of our defense but, the way you talk about him is like he's Tom Brady of Defensive Lineman!! Open your eyes, there are a lot of guys in this upcoming draft, and i do mean A LOT, that can produce way way way more effective pressure than Warren did. There's no reason to re-sign him unless it's for less money. Period.

    Leave a comment:


  • bcbronc
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
    You are aware that we were the same statistically in defense as we have been the last several years? If our DTs were being pushed back, it sure didn't reflect in our run defense.

    Also, that the pressures did not start until we began to all out blitz, and then the pressures ended, when teams gameplanned for the all out blitz.

    Gerrard Warren was not a two gap player. Neither was Mike Myers. We don't play two gap ball. What we play is some hodgepodge of one gap clogging where none of our D-line really pass rushed unless there was a blitz/stunt to fill the gap. I think that's more due to a lack of speed and quickness then a scheme by intent.

    I won't argue that Warren was not effective in being a really big guy that stood up his blockers. I feel he did that. However, being a NT is more than standing up your blockers. Fatafehi was just as effective.
    whether you want to call it a "two gap" system or "some hodgepodge of one gap clogging" the end result is the same; our defensive tackles job is not to make the tackle, but to ensure the linebackers can. and since even our linebackers had unimpressive stats, judging warren on his numbers is not a fair way to evaluate his play, imo.

    we definately did a better job of getting pressure this year. yes it was because of the blitz, but its not like we werent blitzing last year. all last offseason the talk was needing to get pressure without blitzing, just as it is this year. the difference is this year we had a pressence in the middle of the line who constantly took up two blockers, allowing the blitz to be more effective. you know how hard it is to find quality interior lineman that can make a difference. warren showed he can play at a quality level. why we would want to throw that away and go backwards in talent or take a chance on a rookie is beyond me.

    again, i am not saying we should sign warren at any cost. but he did do a good job within this system. imo, he was easily the best player on our dline. as long as he can be signed at a decent number, getting him back is a big plus for our team.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Originally posted by bcbronc
    stats shmats. who cares what warren's numbers were like. he is the first tackle we have had since pryce was putting up double-digit sacks that has required a double team every play. his getting double teamed is why we got so much more pressure this year than the last couple. i know we didnt get many sacks, but that is because the people who are supposed to get to the qb did not have the closing speed necessary. but our dramatic increase in turnovers created is a direct result of this added pressure. i mean we have two rookies corners playing regularily, and yet our turnovers go up. warren played a big part in this, stats or no stats.

    so other tackles got more tackles. who cares. kenoy kennedy had more total tackles than anyone on our team. does anyone think we made a mistake getting rid or him? gold is our top tackle man with 90 total tackles, good for 51 in the league. if our top guy is not even in the top 50, why would you expect our tackle, who plays a two-gap tie up as many blockers as possible game, to have impressive numbers. al wilson, who was named an all-pro, isnt even in the top 100 in total tackles. our TOP was tops in the league, meaning our defense didnt spend alot of time on the field, meaning less stats to be had by everyone.

    i cant believe the amount of people that have forgotten what it was like two seasons ago when we got no push up the middle. when our tackles were EASILY handled by one man, leaving the guard or center to pick up lynch on the blitz. why did lynch get 4 sacks this year and a lot more pressure? because warren was tying up the interior blockers giving john an alley to the qb.

    im not saying warren deserves marcus stroud money or that he was the best tackle in the league. but he did what his coaches needed him to do, and he did it well. i for one do not want to go back to having tackles that get driven backwards by a center, allowing the qb all day to step up in the pocket. warren did a good job of pushing the pocket back, we just had no speed coming off the corner to take advantage. give the stats a break all ready.

    You are aware that we were the same statistically in defense as we have been the last several years? If our DTs were being pushed back, it sure didn't reflect in our run defense.

    Also, that the pressures did not start until we began to all out blitz, and then the pressures ended, when teams gameplanned for the all out blitz.

    Gerrard Warren was not a two gap player. Neither was Mike Myers. We don't play two gap ball. What we play is some hodgepodge of one gap clogging where none of our D-line really pass rushed unless there was a blitz/stunt to fill the gap. I think that's more due to a lack of speed and quickness then a scheme by intent.

    I won't argue that Warren was not effective in being a really big guy that stood up his blockers. I feel he did that. However, being a NT is more than standing up your blockers. Fatafehi was just as effective.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Originally posted by Jrhampton
    Sounds like the same thing to me.

    Well, in Warren's case, I would make the argument he is a poor player as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • NeedDLinemen
    replied
    Originally posted by kmartin575
    That's not exactly true, about teams not being able to sign free agents. I believe that only applies to like the final four teams in the playoffs. However, the other teams that didn't make the playoffs are free to sign whoever they want.
    It actually applies to the top 8 teams, ie divisional participants and basically they can sign their own FAs, 1 for 1 replacement of lost FAs, and 1 FA whose salary starts at more than $1.5M.

    Leave a comment:


  • bcbronc
    replied
    stats shmats. who cares what warren's numbers were like. he is the first tackle we have had since pryce was putting up double-digit sacks that has required a double team every play. his getting double teamed is why we got so much more pressure this year than the last couple. i know we didnt get many sacks, but that is because the people who are supposed to get to the qb did not have the closing speed necessary. but our dramatic increase in turnovers created is a direct result of this added pressure. i mean we have two rookies corners playing regularily, and yet our turnovers go up. warren played a big part in this, stats or no stats.

    so other tackles got more tackles. who cares. kenoy kennedy had more total tackles than anyone on our team. does anyone think we made a mistake getting rid or him? gold is our top tackle man with 90 total tackles, good for 51 in the league. if our top guy is not even in the top 50, why would you expect our tackle, who plays a two-gap tie up as many blockers as possible game, to have impressive numbers. al wilson, who was named an all-pro, isnt even in the top 100 in total tackles. our TOP was tops in the league, meaning our defense didnt spend alot of time on the field, meaning less stats to be had by everyone.

    i cant believe the amount of people that have forgotten what it was like two seasons ago when we got no push up the middle. when our tackles were EASILY handled by one man, leaving the guard or center to pick up lynch on the blitz. why did lynch get 4 sacks this year and a lot more pressure? because warren was tying up the interior blockers giving john an alley to the qb.

    im not saying warren deserves marcus stroud money or that he was the best tackle in the league. but he did what his coaches needed him to do, and he did it well. i for one do not want to go back to having tackles that get driven backwards by a center, allowing the qb all day to step up in the pocket. warren did a good job of pushing the pocket back, we just had no speed coming off the corner to take advantage. give the stats a break all ready.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
    Adams was injured and then benched for attitude problems in Buffalo for half of the season. He was mad the team did not resign Pat Williams, his best friend, and basically pulled a T.O. on the team.


    He put up the numbers Warren did in half the games. He was cut for his effort and attitude though, not because he's a poor player.

    Sounds like the same thing to me.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Originally posted by Jrhampton
    Sam Adams on the list with 19 tackle also and he was CUT.

    Adams was injured and then benched for attitude problems in Buffalo for half of the season. He was mad the team did not resign Pat Williams, his best friend, and basically pulled a T.O. on the team.


    He put up the numbers Warren did in half the games. He was cut for his effort and attitude though, not because he's a poor player.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel
    What games were you watching? Warren was a "force" "he was a beast last year"?

    WTF?

    The man had 19 tackles and 3 sacks! There were 170 defensive linemen in the NFL with more tackles this year! LINK

    By comparison, Cleveland's Orpheus Roye led the league with 88 and Michael Strahan had 81 to go with his 11.5 sacks. Meanwhile Montae Regor, whom the Broncos drafted and then cut had 36 tackles and 5.5 sacks for Indy. He had a much better year than Warren despite being about the 100th best DL in the league!

    Newsflash! 19 tackles in 16 games is pitiful! Not good at all. Very bad in fact.

    YOu can blather about the system all you want, but Gerrard Warren had a very mediocre year at best. He certainly doesn't deserve a big raise!

    Teams around the league are going to look at that performance and take a pass on signing Gerrard. He'll then be faced with the prospect of either taking what he can get elsewhere -- which won't be much, or re-signing with the Broncos for a more reasonable salary!
    Sam Adams on the list with 19 tackle also and he was CUT.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by TXBRONC
    From what I have read and from the posts on this board it sure sounded like that its the player would be getting the worse end of the deal. It really doesn't make sense to me why the NFLPA would want to cut off their nose to spite their face.
    If the can force the issuse. The Union decertifies and the NFL losses their antitrust exemption and the college draft goes away. The best players can go where ever they want where the most money is. Then of course they vote to start the union with the NLRB and they get the best of both worlds:

    Control of their destiny and unionization with almost no controls placed on the teams. The man with the most money wins.

    Leave a comment:

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