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VERY disappointing offseason

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  • #31
    People said our offseason sucked last year.. and the year before that.. and each year the team gets better. Amazing. I'm just glad the Madden players aren't in charge of the payroll.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by broncomike8
      I agree wholeheartedly with Blitz when it comes to Warren ( I was hoping the Bronocs would let him go let alone sign him and then go after ANOTHER Brownco in Lang).
      But in truth, arguing about the Broncos on these boards seems quite useless. The "anti-TO, we didn't overachieve in 05, have patience, the offseason hasn't been terrible" people are like Republicans, and the "bring TO here, we suck because we've done nothing, Shannahan is an idiot, we arent going to make the playoffs in 06" people are like Democrats. Nobody will budge from thier position, and EVERYBODY looks ridiculously ignorant when you take a step back and think about what you are saying and what everybody else is saying.
      But we have sucked in the offseason and won't make the playoffs in 06. LOL

      If we didn't resign Warren then we not only have a need for rush end we would also have a need for DT that can clog the middle.
      John 11: 25-27

      My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



      Thanks Snk16

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      • #33
        I'm actually not anti-Brownco as it might seem, I think the D-Line did a great job last year and I agreed with the importation of the Browns D-Line (originally and still now), but I felt we overpaid Warren (in the first place as well as his new contract)...this opinion is based on how much several other D-lineman are getting paid in FA so far. I agree that he clogged the middle and he is a great leader in the locker room, but 3 sacks is pretty poor, I was expecting more in the range of 5-7 for that kind of money. Well, hopefully 05 was a down year for Warren and he'll prove us all wrong in 06 and go donkey nuts and pick up 10-12 sacks. Here's to hoping.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by broncomike8
          I'm actually not anti-Brownco as it might seem, I think the D-Line did a great job last year and I agreed with the importation of the Browns D-Line (originally and still now), but I felt we overpaid Warren (in the first place as well as his new contract)...this opinion is based on how much several other D-lineman are getting paid in FA so far. I agree that he clogged the middle and he is a great leader in the locker room, but 3 sacks is pretty poor, I was expecting more in the range of 5-7 for that kind of money. Well, hopefully 05 was a down year for Warren and he'll prove us all wrong in 06 and go donkey nuts and pick up 10-12 sacks. Here's to hoping.
          From what I have seen posted dealing with Gerard Warren's contract it is basically a two year contract with an option to retain him or cut him at that time. For those first two years it appears to be very cap friendly. Without knowing the bonuses it is impossible to be 100% sure but it doesn't look all that bad from here.

          Should the Broncos decide to keep him, the remaining money can and probably will be restructured.

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          • #35
            I can't believe how negative everybody is. It seems we kept our O-line intact, which I felt was priority number 1. History proves we will have an effective running attack, believe me MA was good, but not the end all be all.

            Our rookie corners are no longer rookies and get to watch one of the best (Champ) in practice everyday. I'm sure they will improve.

            And the offseason just started, we have 2 number ones and I believe either June 1st or July 1 st there will be another round of cap casualty cuts after teams put themselves over the cap by signing the draft picks, there will be some players available.

            I wanted TO, I think we are thin at WR, but atleast he is Dallas and not a rival. And Abraham couldn't nut it up for his team in the playoffs 2 years ago. Watched on the sidelines, didn't even try. we aren't missing anything with him.

            Anderson, Pryce were great Broncos, but they are on the downside of their careers. I think our core is still solid, and if Jake plays within himself we will win plenty of games.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by SCI03
              I can't believe how negative everybody is. It seems we kept our O-line intact, which I felt was priority number 1. History proves we will have an effective running attack, believe me MA was good, but not the end all be all.

              Our rookie corners are no longer rookies and get to watch one of the best (Champ) in practice everyday. I'm sure they will improve.

              And the offseason just started, we have 2 number ones and I believe either June 1st or July 1 st there will be another round of cap casualty cuts after teams put themselves over the cap by signing the draft picks, there will be some players available.

              I wanted TO, I think we are thin at WR, but atleast he is Dallas and not a rival. And Abraham couldn't nut it up for his team in the playoffs 2 years ago. Watched on the sidelines, didn't even try. we aren't missing anything with him.

              Anderson, Pryce were great Broncos, but they are on the downside of their careers. I think our core is still solid, and if Jake plays within himself we will win plenty of games.
              Yes, keeping the core intact is crucial. I'm waiting to see how things go during & after the draft. Like you mentioned, there will be some cap casualites after that and I could see the Broncos picking up players once that happens. And who knows, we may see them draft some studs this year that may be ready to even start next year.

              Still lots of time for things to happen.
              sigpic

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Jrhampton
                Once again a great post.

                It is the kiddies that don't understand the system as madden does not work this way.

                Even if we did not have room for our draftees at this moment there is always JUN cut down time and restructuring of more contracts.

                We didn't go after JA or TO because their value was not worth their asking price.
                No other way to say it, period they just were not worth it.

                TO IMO would have not been worth having on the team unless HE paid to play. Even then he would have had to wear a muzzle.
                thats what i said there would be restructuring.
                FUNNY we couldnt afford to give champ the huge money but we made it work then signed our draft picks!!!!~!~!

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                • #38
                  [QUOTE=Archimedes Owl]There are just as many pessimists that seem to only look at the negative on this board as there are optimists that only look at the positives.

                  It sure would be nice if there more people that tried to find reasonable middle ground. But, I suppose this is almost always true.



                  If we signed Abraham and let Warren just walk, we would have a hole at the defensive tackle position.

                  The Broncos have, by signing Warren instead, allowed themselves enough money to pursue a more reasonably priced veteran at defensive end. This type of move can lead to good dividends. The veteran may do better than anticipated and be a fantastic bargain, or Denver may have some luck in the draft at the defensive end position.

                  Either way, I can't say that the Broncos made an error in signing Warren. For one thing, there is tons of money available in free agency with this new deal. That means that what was before a lot of money no longer is so much. So Warrens deal that looks so pricey isn't as bad as it seems. Couple that with the fact that it's hard to really tell how much a deal is worth without really knowing the details of a contract and it becomes clear that Warren may have been somewhat pricey, but his price was way overblown.""]]]

                  seems like the last 4 years we found fill in tackles that got the job done. Our rush defense has always been at the top. thanks to our linebackers! you guys fail to mention this and this is my point. we have NO PASS RUSH and warren doesnt satisfy our need. he is a great run stopper or a line plugger, like you guys keep telling me, but we had guys do that for the last 4 years before warren.
                  Last edited by Blitz222; 03-18-2006, 02:22 PM.

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                  • #39
                    I am not disappointed I think the Broncos were smart to stay away from TO and Abraham first because both are on the downside of their careers and we don't need their baggage and salary. Instead we will be able to draft 2 players in the first round and keep them for at least 5 years.
                    I have advice for those who are crying: please jump of the band wagon and jump onto some other team the blows an extravagant amount of money.
                    One more thing the Steelers last year allowed a few big name free agents go (Plaxico Burress and Kendrick Clancy) while picking up a mid-level free agent Cedric Wilson. Who won the Super Bowl? Come on guys have some prespective you guys act like you no nothing about football. 2 guys do not win games it is a team sport and a big team sport for that.
                    Last edited by Loyalty; 03-18-2006, 02:12 PM.
                    Broncos fans since age 6.
                    Fanatical Broncos fan since 1991.
                    Favorite Player: John Elway
                    Favorite Coach: Mike Shanahan

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Ravage!!!
                      People said our offseason sucked last year.. and the year before that.. and each year the team gets better. Amazing. I'm just glad the Madden players aren't in charge of the payroll.
                      funny how we out performed everyones expectations last year. I guess the anaylsts know nothing about football. Salisbury being the exception because he is an idiot. we got a lot of breaks last year.
                      we wouldnt had to made the champ trade if shanny and sundq could draft! middlebrooks, oneal(by the way had a great season in cincy makes you wonder why he did fit here), and some of the other busts at cornerbacks.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Dean
                        From what I have seen posted dealing with Gerard Warren's contract it is basically a two year contract with an option to retain him or cut him at that time. For those first two years it appears to be very cap friendly. Without knowing the bonuses it is impossible to be 100% sure but it doesn't look all that bad from here.

                        Should the Broncos decide to keep him, the remaining money can and probably will be restructured.
                        evidently the bonuses were substantial, because we only have 4 or so million left in space. I just feel we could have got a run plugging DT a lot cheaper on the market.

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                        • #42
                          This post at least makes an attempt to lay out a coherent argument that makes some sense!
                          Originally posted by Archimedes Owl
                          There are players that I'd have liked the Broncos to look at, but I do appreciate that they haven't gone Washington Redskins on us and overspent on every available need player that fills a need position.

                          I actually prefer the approach that they are taking. They are being cautious and not overpaying for big names.

                          The best approach to longterm success is to look for good value in free agency. If you can find diamonds in the rough that can play well for decent pay, your club is the one that wins.
                          There's not much argument here. But this Bronco team is only 1 or 2 players away from being the SB champions. A monster pass-rushing DE would fill the biggest need. And Abraham is the best one who's been available on the FA market since Jevon Kearse (Warren Sapp is over the hill). He's just a phenomenal player and exactly what this team needs to have a defense that is fully equal to the best in the league like the Bears and Ravens.

                          And now the Broncos only hope is to draft someone. But there ARE NO John Abrahams available in the draft! The closest thing is Mario Williams who MIGHT be that good in 3-4 years! But he certainly won't last past the #7th pick or so. Abraham for instance was taken #13 in the 2000 draft. That's about what you expect. Look at the pro-bowl and go back 5 years and most of those guys were drafted in the top 1/2 of the first round (Not all but most).
                          I mean, I actually think that the case that Denver's defensive line performed a bit better in 2004 than 2005, but for the price of the Cleveland guys last year, Denver got pretty good play. They were a terrific deal. And even though only two teams had fewer sacks than we did, despite the fact that we faced more pass attempts than any other team by a wide margin I think that their play was pretty good.

                          I mean, after all, you don't force the third lowest completion percentage in the league without getting good pressure. And Denver was second in the league in incompletions of which there was no intended reciever listed (forcing QBs to throw the ball away). And while I'd love to see Denver improve their defensive line, but I also wouldn't like to see them overpay substantially. I realize that a lot of people can taste the Superbowl and this affects their judgement.
                          I would argue that the DL greatly hindered the team. The Broncos secondary, especially their CBs are much better than the league average Champ Bailey had a career year with 8 ints and good to great coverage. Partly that was because everybody seemed to throw at him this year (can't imagine why) and partly the other rookie CBs made key interceptions and big plays.

                          The pass-defense also was benefited from the fact that the Broncos blitzed all year and most teams can't handle an all out blitz.

                          I think what happens is that you beat teams that can't deal with it, then you get to the playoffs. But there you're facing Tom Brady, Peyton Manning and Ben Roethlisberger. It just doesn't work well with those guys. Brady missed a bunch of wide open receivers who could have run for a couple of TDs. Roethlisberger didn't. End of Broncos season.

                          Still, let's take a look at some of the recent Superbowl victors.

                          New England has been notorious for years in taking risks by letting their high priced free agents go and replacing them with cheaper talent. They have been able to have good success doing this either through the draft or by finding the gems that a lot of other teams ignore in free agency.
                          This is true. The Patriots are THE model franchise in the NFL and may even be just in the middle of their dynasty for all we know! But they do it through the draft. They use rookie draft picks and always have a good young player or two waiting in the wings to step in when a veteran leaves via FA. Thus, they maintain control over their salary cap.

                          Shanahan has tried to do the opposite: assemble a team via FA. He might be the best in the league in taking little known low priced FAs and turning them into starters, but he's generally a very POOR drafter, especially he can't seem to properly evaluate talent in the 1st and 2nd round (he does much better with later rounds, especially when drafting RBs, OL and last year CBs). But FAs aren't cheap. And rather than do what the Patriots do, let his FAs go and substitute draft picks, he has to sign guys like Warren, Brown, Ekuban, Engleberger to long term expensive contracts!

                          He has no choice because there ARE no draft pick replacements for them because he hasn't found a DL through the draft since Trevor Pryce! (Well, Montae Regor -- but he only became a starter after he left for the Colts). If those guys leave the cupboard is bare!

                          So, it's either sign John Abraham or Andre Carter or draft some DL. He's 0 for 2 now, looking to go 0 for 3 if he misses on the draft too.

                          Pittsburgh let their number two wide reciever go last year after just missing the Superbowl and won the Superbowl this year. After winning the Superbowl, they didn't hesitate to let their second wide reciever go for a second year in a row.
                          Nothing wrong with letting players go if you've got or can get suitable replacements. Letting the overpaid Pryce go was a great idea! I don't see many people ripping Shanahan for that -- and rightfully not. Same with Anderson and Putzier. If we can find lower cost replacements all to the good!

                          Though they haven't drafted as well as some of the other consistently good teams, Denver has been able to remain a competitive teams for years and years by being able to find gems in free agency that other teams pass up and that could come into here and overachieve or to peak and to get these guys at a good price.

                          Denver is considered very good at evaluating the talent on other teams and on practice squads around the league and the plundering of these rescources has allowed Denver to grow year after year even if they have a somewhat less than stellar draft.
                          This is a key point. IT DOESN'T WORK! Not because you can't find gems in FA, but because they cost too much! Rookie contracts are CHEAP by comparision and you've locked up the player for 3-4 years.

                          Shanahan built his SB teams on FA. But in those days not everyone was doing it. Now they leap in immediately after the FA deadline in a frenzy of negotiations. All the good FAs get snapped up immediately and Shanahan is left holding an empty bag!

                          To do this, they have to do as most teams in the league are at this point. They have to play wait and see what deals they can snatch in free agency. They have to wait for underrated players that expected too much in free agency to sign with them for reasonable tender and they have to retain money for later in freee agency when the completely insane people aren't active anymore.

                          Not as many players are released after June 1st as used to be, but a lot of quality bargains can still be had and it would be nice if the Broncos could be active in this period of free agency.

                          I guess what I'm really requesting is that so many people please stop overreacting.
                          If we accept that the Broncos are 1 or 2 players away from the SB where are they going to get them? John Abraham was THE GUY! Getting him would have made Denver automatically a top SB favorite.

                          They're not now. Simple fact. And getting some mediocre re-tread isn't going to do it!
                          Last edited by Cugel; 03-18-2006, 03:30 PM.
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                          • #43
                            However, Cugel, at the price Abraham was asking (15 to 18 million guaranteed money) we would have to release several more than the three players that were cut. Either you will be more than 1 or 2 players short of a Super Bowl or you will be gambling that there are no injuries because you will have no backups.

                            He is not a player that has been without injuries. If he sustained a serious injury, the team would be in dire straits that would yield repercussions for years!

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                            • #44
                              Maybe we will get those 1-2 players in the draft and after June 1st cuts......Whose to say we can't get a Shawn Merriman type in the draft ( but at DE ) that will have that type of impact on our team?

                              Don't laugh, but whose to say David Terrell won't develop finally into the top 10 pick that he was??

                              Its too easy to yell and scream right now when no-one really sees or knows the big picture...come back Febuary 5th of 2007 and lets talk.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by watchthemiddle
                                Its too easy to yell and scream right now when no-one really sees or knows the big picture...come back Febuary 5th of 2007 and lets talk.
                                What are you crazy? There will be next years draft and free agency to yell and scream about.

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