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  • #46
    Originally posted by Dean
    What are you crazy? There will be next years draft and free agency to yell and scream about.
    ...oh yeah, the never ending vicious cycle....

    Comment


    • #47
      Lang is another POS!

      The Lang signing stinks of Patterson. I guarantee he talked Shanny and Teddy outta top guys like Abraham and Carter so he could get "his guy". He probably talked Lang up to an already defensively-mentally challenged Shanny and made promises he can't keep about improvement. Lang is no better than Pryce. He's just another over-the-hill underachiever.

      Worst of all, Shanny will use this signing of Lang to once again neglect the D-line in the draft. With the signing of Lang, Shanny now has a false sense of security and feels that he was "active" in FA.

      Because of this, I think this signing will be worse for the team rather than being an improvement. I'm sorely dissappointed by this.

      Comment


      • #48
        about Abraham

        you can't sign someone who doesn't want to come here and has only been seeming to be interested so he can drive up his price to who he really wants to play for. As I understand it, Abraham only wants to play for the Falcons. That whole Seattle thing was for show, as it would have been if Denver had been more interested. Nope. We don't need that here. Only players that want to play for Denver need apply.

        Comment


        • #49
          We were never going to get Abraham, Cugel. It was a no-brainer.


          This team has refused to pay 7-8 million guaranteed contracts to Berry or Hayward, and Abraham isn't leaps and bounds better then they. Shanahan obviously views the D-line as unimportant. A superstar isn't needed, just lunch pail guys.

          And that's what we have now. A collection of lunch pail guys that are roughly average.

          I believe Shanahan feels his running game and the overall ball control offense greatly improves our D-line by default, since the players stay fresh. I also feel Coyer believes that his stunt/blitz oriented defense takes some of the need away from having a dedicated sack man or two.

          I've given up on this organization's viewpoint towards the D-line. I don't share their opinion about the position and the talent required to play it. But as a fan, its either accept it, or be dissappointed each year.

          I accept it as it is. We won't be drafting D-line early, and we won't be signing any key players. Our hopes for this next season are pinned on Courtney Brown and Gerrard Warren going bonkers and playing up to their talent for the first time ever. Slim hope, but at least its something to grasp on to.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by HORSEPOWER 56
            The Lang signing stinks of Patterson. I guarantee he talked Shanny and Teddy outta top guys like Abraham and Carter so he could get "his guy". He probably talked Lang up to an already defensively-mentally challenged Shanny and made promises he can't keep about improvement. Lang is no better than Pryce. He's just another over-the-hill underachiever.

            Worst of all, Shanny will use this signing of Lang to once again neglect the D-line in the draft. With the signing of Lang, Shanny now has a false sense of security and feels that he was "active" in FA.

            Because of this, I think this signing will be worse for the team rather than being an improvement. I'm sorely dissappointed by this.
            I agree with you.
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
              We were never going to get Abraham, Cugel. It was a no-brainer.

              This team has refused to pay 7-8 million guaranteed contracts to Berry or Hayward, and Abraham isn't leaps and bounds better then they. Shanahan obviously views the D-line as unimportant. A superstar isn't needed, just lunch pail guys.

              And that's what we have now. A collection of lunch pail guys that are roughly average.

              I believe Shanahan feels his running game and the overall ball control offense greatly improves our D-line by default, since the players stay fresh. I also feel Coyer believes that his stunt/blitz oriented defense takes some of the need away from having a dedicated sack man or two.

              I've given up on this organization's viewpoint towards the D-line. I don't share their opinion about the position and the talent required to play it. But as a fan, its either accept it, or be dissappointed each year.

              I accept it as it is. We won't be drafting D-line early, and we won't be signing any key players. Our hopes for this next season are pinned on Courtney Brown and Gerrard Warren going bonkers and playing up to their talent for the first time ever. Slim hope, but at least its something to grasp on to.
              I'm afraid you may be right. I certainly HOPE you're wrong about the draft though! That would be a big disappointment.

              I can't imagine how Shanahan could look at film of the championship game and not see what everybody else saw -- the DL generating NO pressure, the blitzers being picked up, Roethlisberger sitting back in the pocket having a manicure, then hitting the open receiver on 3rd and 11. So on and so on.

              It's just so blindingly obvious. This team has for years desparately needed some STUD pass rushing DL, especially DE.

              I could see signing the Browncos to the 1 year deals I and everyone thought they had. Rent them to get through 2005, then sign some top DE FA and pick up a couple of young guys in the draft who can really come in and fix the problem for the next 3-4 years. What I can't understand is how he would think Warren, Ekuban, Engleberger and Brown are the answer to anything, when none of them got more than 4 sacks on the year. Is he really going to start Engleberger who had 16 tackles and zero sacks and expect that's going to generate a pass rush?

              As for the offense, I even imagine that Shanahan knows that Plummer isn't in the same class as Manning, Roethlisberger or Brady. So, for the Broncos to win the rest of the supporting talent has to be better.

              The easiest way would be to build a defense that could compare with Tampa Bay's when they won the SB or the Ravens when they won, or Chicago's right now. A dominating defense that could shut other teams down.

              Pair that with a ball control offense that never lets the team get too far behind, a couple of veterans like Rod Smith and a decent RB and VOILA!

              Superbowl here we come!

              It could work and frankly I thought that was Shanahan's plan.

              But, I have no idea what his plan is now. NONE whatever!

              I can't imagine he really believes that his running game is going to win a championship if he can't stop the other team's offense on 3rd down. And he can't just blitz all the time if he's facing Brady or Manning or Roethlisberger. It was only a matter of time before that caught up to the Broncos.

              He got lucky in the Patriots game when Brady had a bad day and missed a bunch of wide open WRs running down the middle of the field for what would have been big plays or even TDs.

              But, this team has obviously gone as far as it can go with the current scheme and personnel.

              So it comes back to either sign a FA like Abraham and pay him what he deserves (and $18 million guarantee really isn't that much to secure an elite DE) or draft one.

              Frankly, he's tried about everything else and it hasn't worked! No improvement in the DL - no championship. Period.
              Last edited by Cugel; 03-18-2006, 08:53 PM.
              sigpic

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cugel
                I'm afraid you may be right. I certainly HOPE you're wrong about the draft though! That would be a big disappointment.

                I can't imagine how Shanahan could look at film of the championship game and not see what everybody else saw -- the DL generating NO pressure, the blitzers being picked up, Roethlisberger sitting back in the pocket having a manicure, then hitting the open receiver on 3rd and 11. So on and so on.

                It's just so blindingly obvious. This team has for years desparately needed some STUD pass rushing DL, especially DE.

                I could see signing the Browncos to the 1 year deals I and everyone thought they had. Rent them to get through 2005, then sign some top DE FA and pick up a couple of young guys in the draft who can really come in and fix the problem for the next 3-4 years. What I can't understand is how he would think Warren, Ekuban, Engleberger and Brown are the answer to anything, when none of them got more than 4 sacks on the year. Is he really going to start Engleberger who had 16 tackles and zero sacks and expect that's going to generate a pass rush?

                As for the offense, I even imagine that Shanahan knows that Plummer isn't in the same class as Manning, Roethlisberger or Brady. So, for the Broncos to win the rest of the supporting talent has to be better.

                The easiest way would be to build a defense that could compare with Tampa Bay's when they won the SB or the Ravens when they won, or Chicago's right now. A dominating defense that could shut other teams down.

                Pair that with a ball control offense that never lets the team get too far behind, a couple of veterans like Rod Smith and a decent RB and VOILA!

                Superbowl here we come!

                It could work and frankly I thought that was Shanahan's plan.

                But, I have no idea what his plan is now. NONE whatever!

                I can't imagine he really believes that his running game is going to win a championship if he can't stop the other team's offense on 3rd down. And he can't just blitz all the time if he's facing Brady or Manning or Roethlisberger. It was only a matter of time before that caught up to the Broncos.

                He got lucky in the Patriots game when Brady had a bad day and missed a bunch of wide open WRs running down the middle of the field for what would have been big plays or even TDs.

                But, this team has obviously gone as far as it can go with the current scheme and personnel.

                So it comes back to either sign a FA like Abraham and pay him what he deserves (and $18 million guarantee really isn't that much to secure an elite DE) or draft one.

                Frankly, he's tried about everything else and it hasn't worked! No improvement in the DL - no championship. Period.

                I think I need to be bluntly honest here....Shanahan has shown he's a great offensive mind and a good head coach, but he obviously knows jack about defense. Look at our organization:

                Coyer was our ex LBs coach promoted to DC. His defense is designed completely around his beloved LBs making plays. The D-line's only purpose is to eat blockers, allowing the LBs to stop the run, bring pressure on the QB, etc. His defensive scheme is very one dimensional and he's probably the worst in the league for adapting on the fly.

                Patterson was Cleveland's D-line coach where he coached their line to be one of the bottom quarter of the league. He comes to Denver, convinces Shanny to acquire all of "his (underachieving) guys", and gets Shanny to buy into "pressure is better than sacks" (unfortunately real pro QBs aren't as rattled by pressure and just simply step away from it to find wide open WRs - Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger). He's done it again with Lang. Our D-line play actually got worse statistically with all his boys on the roster. Once again our d-line will be the achilles heel of our defense no matter who we draft.

                Spencer is our DBs coach....yes, that's right the guy who couldn't break the starting lineup as a CB. Quickly promoted after Alex Gibb's son got fired after the Atlanta game, Spencer is just lucky that he has a guy like Champ with natural ability and veteran experience that the rookies could emulate at practice. Remember "Spencer's proteges (Walls and Herndon) aren't around anymore because they weren't starting caliber.

                Overall, I think we need a complete overhaul on the defensive side of the ball. Coyer and his coaches are only really successful when the offense gets them a large lead and/or doesn't turn the ball over.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Blitz222
                  1. reason i seem to be new. Its a new username i gave up posting here because people dont look objectively at their OWN team. they always want to look at the positives, but you also need to look at the negatives.
                  2. we would have the money if we didnt waste it on warren. i would take abraham all day long over warren. Bye the way how many sacks did warren and brown have last year????? If romeo Crennel didnt see the potential in these guys what do we see? By the way crennell was the defensive coordinator of 3 superbowl rings. Not to mention a pretty good defensive unit. He was also quoted as saying abraham might be one of the best young pass rushers in the game right now.
                  3. if we dont have the money exactly how are we going to sign 2 first round picks.
                  lot of restructuring i guess.

                  just to respond to your comments.
                  1. you make no sense
                  2. evidently you didn't read his comments. He said if Warren wasn't re-signed, then you'd have to find somebody else to take his place.
                  Evidently, you ALSO failed to read another's post that explained that Warren's contract ISN'T that big! Do some comparisons.....
                  And Crennel let the guys go because of the new scheme! They're NOT 3-4 players.
                  3. You listen to too many 'rumors'.......The money has already been set aside for the picks.
                  "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                  tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                  men."

                  -- Samuel Adams

                  sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TXBRONC
                    Exactly, I saw all of one report/rumor that we might be looking to trade both number one picks but I don't recall any reason being given for it. Ever since then I seen several posts where people have concluded that we wont be able to afford them. My guess is that Shanahan could possilbly (that is IF he's shopping them) be looking to move up in the draft to get the guy he's looking for.
                    Spot on, tx....


                    ...seems to me it could be to move up in the 1st round.....
                    "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                    tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                    men."

                    -- Samuel Adams

                    sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      This is really laughable in my opinion... All this doom and gloom and no hope...

                      We are the AFC West Champions people...

                      We did not get there because Coyer is a bad Defensive Coordinator..

                      We did not get there because Mike Shanahan made a mistake on the "Browncos" who caused enough pressure to get Champ and Nick there interceptions and the forced fumbles that we have not had in years... But of course that had nothing to do with the defensive line or Andre Patterson did it???

                      We did not get there because Jake only threw 7 interceptions this last year...

                      We did not get there because we had a running game that was efficient...

                      We did not get there because Ashley Lelie stepped up and played good ball...

                      We did not get there because John Lynch brought the pressure on the passer from the saftety position because of the defensive scheme and many times caused several turnovers and interceptions...

                      We did not get there because we had a great offensive line who opened up holes and defended Jake on the pass...

                      Yes folks we deserved to win the AFC West...

                      Yes, I do believe we will have a good team this year...

                      All this doom and gloom to me is laughable... Sorry but true...
                      Go Broncos!!! - Hosea 10:12

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Dean
                        From what I have seen posted dealing with Gerard Warren's contract it is basically a two year contract with an option to retain him or cut him at that time. For those first two years it appears to be very cap friendly. Without knowing the bonuses it is impossible to be 100% sure but it doesn't look all that bad from here.

                        Should the Broncos decide to keep him, the remaining money can and probably will be restructured.
                        Exactly how the Cowboys did TO's contract. They made it 3-1 yr deals......with nothing lost after each year, should he implode.

                        Looks like something that could take hold with alot of the 'vocal' players....
                        "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                        tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                        men."

                        -- Samuel Adams

                        sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by TXBRONC
                          Exactly, I saw all of one report/rumor that we might be looking to trade both number one picks but I don't recall any reason being given for it. Ever since then I seen several posts where people have concluded that we wont be able to afford them. My guess is that Shanahan could possilbly (that is IF he's shopping them) be looking to move up in the draft to get the guy he's looking for.
                          The scenario I heard regarding this was that the Saints would trade down, now that they have a franchise QB and start to build a team this year with multiple picks. This way, we move up and take Mario Williams. Just a scenario I heard on XM, no real source given for this certain scenario. Also, during this segment, there was a discussion how the Broncos were never gonna pay more than 1 million per season for TO, so that's why they would be willing to trade down and try to upgrade the D-line.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by rcsodak
                            Spot on, tx....


                            ...seems to me it could be to move up in the 1st round.....
                            Here's the link to the other thread. KFFL is the source.

                            http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=57937

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by HORSEPOWER 56
                              Here's the link to the other thread. KFFL is the source.

                              http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=57937
                              Jeff Legwold.....


                              ...nuff said.

                              He's prolly either playing devil's advocate or is Shanny's "pied piper"......

                              The rookie pool is figured by taking the # of picks X $275,000

                              9 x 275k = $2.475m
                              It's prolly higher than that, with 2 1st rounders.....and any comp pick they might receive.
                              "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                              tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                              men."

                              -- Samuel Adams

                              sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by broncos4ever
                                This is really laughable in my opinion... All this doom and gloom and no hope...

                                We are the AFC West Champions people...

                                We did not get there because Coyer is a bad Defensive Coordinator.. Well, he really didn't help much, rumors are he almost got fired after the Miami game. The second half of the SD game saved his job.

                                We did not get there because Mike Shanahan made a mistake on the "Browncos" who caused enough pressure to get Champ and Nick there interceptions and the forced fumbles that we have not had in years... But of course that had nothing to do with the defensive line or Andre Patterson did it??? Turnovers were forced by large leads, not by a good passrush. Look at the last 4 years' turnover leaders: KC, Indy, Cincy - all of whom had sub-par defenses but their offenses always had a large lead and other teams have to throw to catch up. Any wonder Denver was the most thrown on team?

                                We did not get there because Jake only threw 7 interceptions this last year...

                                We did not get there because we had a running game that was efficient...

                                We did not get there because Ashley Lelie stepped up and played good ball... Wow, 700 yds and a TD - talk about stepping up!

                                We did not get there because John Lynch brought the pressure on the passer from the saftety position because of the defensive scheme and many times caused several turnovers and interceptions...

                                We did not get there because we had a great offensive line who opened up holes and defended Jake on the pass...

                                Yes folks we deserved to win the AFC West...

                                Yes, I do believe we will have a good team this year...

                                All this doom and gloom to me is laughable... Sorry but true...


                                I do think we deserved to win the west, but to sit back and think "everything is fine" is just "drinking the Kool Aid" (no, not OhNo). NTM, there's a difference between resting on your laurels and trying to improve. We WERE NOT the SB Champs, therefore we must need some improvement.

                                Resigning guys that are a year older is a start, but we do have a lot of holes. No clear starting TE since Sharpe retired, no clear starting RB since the Portis trade, only one reliable WR (Rod) and absolutely no third guy, no natural pass rusher on our D-line, no real UT to line up next to Warren, the list goes on. We can fix a lot through the draft, but I think we're all pretty skeptical of Shanny's drafting practices, especially as of late.

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