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  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel
    Well, that's a homer analysis if I've ever seen one!

    Shanahan's great drafting? Are you kidding me? Take a look at the 1st and 2nd round picks the last 8 years! Later rounds are mostly hit or miss. If you get a starter out of the 3rd or later rounds, that's good, but mostly teams rely on the 1st two rounds.

    1998
    1st - WR Marcus Nash - Total bust!
    2nd - SS Eric Brown - Bust

    1999
    1st round - Al Wilson - Great pick
    2nd - Montae Regor - Cut and signed by Colts

    2000
    1st round - CB - Deltha O'Neal - Cut, now doing good, but for Cincy not us!
    2nd round - LB - Ian Gold - Left via FA and re-signed to huge salary. Good player.

    2001
    1st - CB - Willie Middlebrooks - Total bust!
    2nd - DE Paul Toviesi - Even worse bust, never played a down!

    2002
    1st - WR Ashlie Lelie - A solid #2 WR but a disappointment as a #1 WR so far
    2nd - RB Clinton Portis - good RB, but demanded to be traded
    This was Shanahan's best draft though.

    2003
    1st George Foster - decent OL, but his development seems to have stalled. Original plan was to let Lepsis go and move Foster to LT. Then the team paid $6 million to Lepsis. Conclusion? Foster really isn't cut out for elite tackle status.
    2nd Terry Pierce - Total bust. Played sparingly, then cut. Currently out of league.

    2004
    1st - LB D.J. Williams - Hardly a future pro-bowler, he's a bust in the making. He's currently reported to be in Shanahan's doghouse after his disappointing play this year and his off field problems with DUI. NO coincidence the only FAs signed so far are at LB. Williams is on very thin ice and might lose his starting job. If that happens look for Williams to be dealt or cut by next off-season.
    2nd - RB Tatum Bell. High hopes but hasn't become a starter. Maybe this year. If not, look for him to be gone in 2007 too.
    2nd - WR Darius Watts - Everyone in the league shook their head when Shanahan made this pick. Watts was a 4th or 5th round talent on most of their draft boards. Now we know why! He couldn't even make 3rd string last year and was edged out by an undrafted FA. He'll probably be cut this off season proving once again that Shanahan can't draft WRs to save his life!

    2005
    1st - none - Shanahan traded away this pick in hopes of Washington having a sucky year and getting a top draft pick. Instead they won a playoff game and this pick is now #22. I.E. the strategy totally backfired!
    2nd - DB Darrent Williams. This was the luckiest pick of Shanahan's career!

    Williams was picked as a KR/PR (Ted Sundquist has openly stated this on this site), and he unexpectedly developed into a starting CB, proving it's better to be lucky than good!

    Overall this is NOT a sterling record. Shanahan has shown a tendency to miss badly with his top 2 picks. Most teams at least get mediocre players at these draft positions.

    When you cut a player after 2 seasons like Terry Pierce or he doesn't even play like Paul Toviesi, that's very bad.
    I have singing this song since I came on the forum.

    Leave a comment:


  • 24TheCHAMP24
    replied
    [QUOTE=Cugel]Well, that's a homer analysis if I've ever seen one!

    Shanahan's great drafting? Are you kidding me? Take a look at the 1st and 2nd round picks the last 8 years! Later rounds are mostly hit or miss. If you get a starter out of the 3rd or later rounds, that's good, but mostly teams rely on the 1st two rounds.

    First of all I have never said Shannahan is great at drafting. I have stated that we do as well in the draft as most other teams despite the fact that we have not picked higher then 15th!!!!! Shanny is not a great drafter and has reached for some players as has every other gm/coach that has had a chance to make a selection in the NFL draft. It is not an exact science evaluating talent. But it is funny when he made a good pick after round one you take credit away as "good running back but he had to be traded" yeah well that pick got us Champ Bailey and tatum bell. Or the Darrent williams pick is the luckiest pick shanny has made like you war in the war room and the five guys we really wanted went in the previous five picks so we just through a dart at the board and it came up darrant williams

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by 24TheCHAMP24
    While we are not perfect in the draft ( and nobody is) if you look at our first round picks during the Shannahan era despite never drafting higher then 15th we have done as well as any other team out there with the exception of baltimore who seems to hit their first pick right on the nuts every year. So go ahead & look at how other team have faired during that time frame & you won't find many better

    1996 15th pick John Mobley = above average linebacker
    1997 28th pick Trevor Pryce = Four time pro bowler
    1998 30th pick Marcus Nash = Definatley a bust
    1999 31st pick Al Wilson = Enough Said
    2000 15th pick Deltha Oneal = Led the league in INT's last year with 10
    2001 24th pick Willie Middlebrooks = Bust
    2002 19th pick Ashley Lelie = Solid nfl starter
    2003 20th pick George Foster = Nfl Stater, Not great but decent player
    2004 17th pick D.J. Williams = future Pro Bowler
    2005 no pick
    Well, that's a homer analysis if I've ever seen one!

    Shanahan's great drafting? Are you kidding me? Take a look at the 1st and 2nd round picks the last 8 years! Later rounds are mostly hit or miss. If you get a starter out of the 3rd or later rounds, that's good, but mostly teams rely on the 1st two rounds.

    1998
    1st - WR Marcus Nash - Total bust!
    2nd - SS Eric Brown - Bust

    1999
    1st round - Al Wilson - Great pick
    2nd - Montae Regor - Cut and signed by Colts

    2000
    1st round - CB - Deltha O'Neal - Cut, now doing good, but for Cincy not us!
    2nd round - LB - Ian Gold - Left via FA and re-signed to huge salary. Good player.

    2001
    1st - CB - Willie Middlebrooks - Total bust!
    2nd - DE Paul Toviesi - Even worse bust, never played a down!

    2002
    1st - WR Ashlie Lelie - A solid #2 WR but a disappointment as a #1 WR so far
    2nd - RB Clinton Portis - good RB, but demanded to be traded
    This was Shanahan's best draft though.

    2003
    1st George Foster - decent OL, but his development seems to have stalled. Original plan was to let Lepsis go and move Foster to LT. Then the team paid $6 million to Lepsis. Conclusion? Foster really isn't cut out for elite tackle status.
    2nd Terry Pierce - Total bust. Played sparingly, then cut. Currently out of league.

    2004
    1st - LB D.J. Williams - Hardly a future pro-bowler, he's a bust in the making. He's currently reported to be in Shanahan's doghouse after his disappointing play this year and his off field problems with DUI. NO coincidence the only FAs signed so far are at LB. Williams is on very thin ice and might lose his starting job. If that happens look for Williams to be dealt or cut by next off-season.
    2nd - RB Tatum Bell. High hopes but hasn't become a starter. Maybe this year. If not, look for him to be gone in 2007 too.
    2nd - WR Darius Watts - Everyone in the league shook their head when Shanahan made this pick. Watts was a 4th or 5th round talent on most of their draft boards. Now we know why! He couldn't even make 3rd string last year and was edged out by an undrafted FA. He'll probably be cut this off season proving once again that Shanahan can't draft WRs to save his life!

    2005
    1st - none - Shanahan traded away this pick in hopes of Washington having a sucky year and getting a top draft pick. Instead they won a playoff game and this pick is now #22. I.E. the strategy totally backfired!
    2nd - DB Darrent Williams. This was the luckiest pick of Shanahan's career!

    Williams was picked as a KR/PR (Ted Sundquist has openly stated this on this site), and he unexpectedly developed into a starting CB, proving it's better to be lucky than good!

    Overall this is NOT a sterling record. Shanahan has shown a tendency to miss badly with his top 2 picks. Most teams at least get mediocre players at these draft positions.

    When you cut a player after 2 seasons like Terry Pierce or he doesn't even play like Paul Toviesi, that's very bad.

    Leave a comment:


  • RBfactory04
    replied
    Im not whining about the FO, Im clearly stating that I think K.Lang is to old to be our first move in the FA. We have Ekuban he is an experienced vet. My point is is that I think we should look to the draft for lineman and use the FA for explosive play makers. I dont see K. Lang being Dwight Freeny. I was un aware of his stats being that of a 3-4 and hopefully he will take Pryce's spot and fill it well. Hopefully he can also teach some rookies a thing or two. Either way bring on the new season cuz I cant wait to see David Terrell play.

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by RBfactory04
    Im glad to see that we our wasting our money on veteran players that were on a downward spin. K. Lang's numbers are way down from his prior year stats. I would have rather us spent money in the draft and make talent then try to make someone feel young again. Didnt we pick up enough people from the browns last year???? Might as well start buying Browns jersey's. Its becoming a reunion for all those players we picked up last year. And to think the team the most over the cap is signing the most players. If we think we are gonna get back to the AFC/NFC battle with fewer play making bodies then we are sadly mistaken because the teams that are making moves are the teams we think to be pushovers in the regular season. Hopefully we can pick up Eric Moulds.

    Did you know he was played out of position last year. For the majority of his career he's was defensive line then Crennel wants to turn him into an OLB.

    Leave a comment:


  • topscribe
    replied
    Well . . .

    Cugel, you wrote a very cogent argument and provided something to think about.

    The only bone I have to pick with you is that someone is not an idiot or a liar simply because they wrote something to which you severely disagreed. To wit: "Either Jeff Legwold is a total idiot (which is possible) or he's merely being cynically disengenuous, pushing a theme that he knows will draw readers interest and help sell newspapers (his job) even though he doesn't believe."

    I guess I take it a bit personally because I tend to agree with much of what Legwold says.

    -----

    Leave a comment:


  • 24TheCHAMP24
    replied
    Originally posted by slickdonkey7
    In '95 I was screaming at the top of my lungs "Ray Lewis" Mobley was a solid player though, I miss him. Good point about not picking higher than 15th. I'm trying to be positive amongst all the negativtiy around here lately. being fans of the same team, we seem to bust each others cajones around here too much.
    I was screaming ray lewis that year, I was screaming ed reed the year we took lelie, & I really wanted us to take Steven Jackson the year we picked DJ Williams but overall we have drafted better than most teams in the nfl so for all these fickle fans that want to sit here and cry about shannys ability to draft they need to look around the league and see how others have faired in this crap shoot they call the nfl draft. We have reached for players , we have taken this guy when we should have taken that guy but for the most part our drafting is a major reason why we have been able to sustain a level of play that has made us playoff contenders every year for the last decade. Shannahan ain't perfect his is a human after all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by JWinn
    Again I would like to post this article from the Rocky........

    http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drm...548768,00.html

    Spendig A ton of cash does not mean we automatically win anything. Take a look at the Redskins. They have bee doing it for years, and exactly what did it get them? I dont see THEM wearing any rings..............
    This is a very popular theme. I think it's because most fans simply can't relate to the players anymore because they make so much money now.

    But, either Jeff Legwold is a total idiot (which is possible) or he's merely being cynically disengenuous, pushing a theme that he knows will draw readers interest and help sell newspapers (his job) even though he doesn't believe it.

    Take a look at this statement:
    • Former Broncos running back Mike Anderson got a four-year, $8 million deal from the Baltimore Ravens, only to see Jamal Lewis sign a $26 million deal the next day. Which means the Ravens are willing to pay Anderson $8 million simply to push Lewis into being a better player than he was when he moped through 2005.
    Now it sounds like the Ravens are paying Anderson $8 million right? WRONG! How much of that money is guaranteed? About $2 million? Well Anderson just in effect signed a 1 year deal for $2 million. That might still be a lot of money, but it's not $8 million.

    Anderson will never see year 4 of that deal. And if he does, he'll be desparately trying to hold on somewhere making the veteran minimum, not $3 or $4 million.

    That's what life in the NFL is REALLY about. The owners make the REAL money. Pat Bowlen for instance has seen the value of his franchise go from something like $34 million to $200 million. Now THAT's some money!

    As for whether FAs play better than they did before the contract? Does John Abraham really have to play better to earn the $18 million he's getting from Atlanta or Seattle?

    He only has to do the same!

    How about T.O.? He's getting $8 million from Dallas. Does he have to do better to earn it? He scored 20 TDs in 21 games with the Eagles. He was on pace to have over 100 catches and about 1500 yards receiving before he was suspended. How much better does he have to do? All he has to do is keep his mouth shut and do what he does.

    So this is a popular theme, but how much water does it really hold? Those huge contracts are totally misleading, since the players will never see all that money. It's just pie in the sky numbers.

    NFL = "not-for-long"

    Leave a comment:


  • slick7
    replied
    I think we can all agree on Foxy and D-will. Great picks coach.

    Can you feel my positivity?!?! C'mon guys. Feel it. LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • topscribe
    replied
    Originally posted by 24TheCHAMP24
    While we are not perfect in the draft ( and nobody is) if you look at our first round picks during the Shannahan era despite never drafting higher then 15th we have done as well as any other team out there with the exception of baltimore who seems to hit their first pick right on the nuts every year. So go ahead & look at how other team have faired during that time frame & you won't find many better

    1996 15th pick John Mobley = above average linebacker
    1997 28th pick Trevor Pryce = Four time pro bowler
    1998 30th pick Marcus Nash = Definatley a bust
    1999 31st pick Al Wilson = Enough Said
    2000 15th pick Deltha Oneal = Led the league in INT's last year with 10
    2001 24th pick Willie Middlebrooks = Bust
    2002 19th pick Ashley Lelie = Solid nfl starter
    2003 20th pick George Foster = Nfl Stater, Not great but decent player
    2004 17th pick D.J. Williams = future Pro Bowler
    2005 no pick
    Except that Shanny really outdid himself last year. He got a de facto first-rounder with his second pick (D-Will) and a second rounder with a third (Foxworth). He missed badly with Clarett, of course, but he made up for it by already having selected Paymah.

    I hope this portends an updrade of Shanny's selection procedures.

    -----

    Leave a comment:


  • slick7
    replied
    In '95 I was screaming at the top of my lungs "Ray Lewis" Mobley was a solid player though, I miss him. Good point about not picking higher than 15th. I'm trying to be positive amongst all the negativtiy around here lately. being fans of the same team, we seem to bust each others cajones around here too much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peerless
    replied
    I don't really like how we signed a 10 year vet. Sure we could use them, but I want to see some youth come on in.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by slickdonkey7
    True Jrhampton, but aren't we due for a first round stud. We've got two shots at it. I agree wholeheartedly with your post though. I'm trying to be optimistic about the draft. i've been disappointed so many times. I watch so much college football, sometimes I think I could do a better job of drafting than we have in years past.
    Two chances to reach for a third rounder that is all it means. Once mikey has some players locked on his radar screen he will go for them before their time. They might turn out ok there was not a need to take them when they did.

    Leave a comment:


  • 24TheCHAMP24
    replied
    Originally posted by slickdonkey7
    True Jrhampton, but aren't we due for a first round stud. We've got two shots at it. I agree wholeheartedly with your post though. I'm trying to be optimistic about the draft. i've been disappointed so many times. I watch so much college football, sometimes I think I could do a better job of drafting than we have in years past.
    While we are not perfect in the draft ( and nobody is) if you look at our first round picks during the Shannahan era despite never drafting higher then 15th we have done as well as any other team out there with the exception of baltimore who seems to hit their first pick right on the nuts every year. So go ahead & look at how other team have faired during that time frame & you won't find many better

    1996 15th pick John Mobley = above average linebacker
    1997 28th pick Trevor Pryce = Four time pro bowler
    1998 30th pick Marcus Nash = Definatley a bust
    1999 31st pick Al Wilson = Enough Said
    2000 15th pick Deltha Oneal = Led the league in INT's last year with 10
    2001 24th pick Willie Middlebrooks = Bust
    2002 19th pick Ashley Lelie = Solid nfl starter
    2003 20th pick George Foster = Nfl Stater, Not great but decent player
    2004 17th pick D.J. Williams = future Pro Bowler
    2005 no pick

    Leave a comment:


  • slick7
    replied
    True Jrhampton, but aren't we due for a first round stud. We've got two shots at it. I agree wholeheartedly with your post though. I'm trying to be optimistic about the draft. i've been disappointed so many times. I watch so much college football, sometimes I think I could do a better job of drafting than we have in years past.

    Leave a comment:

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