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  • #16
    Originally posted by underrated29
    is it me or is ahley lelie a big part of our offense. With out him we CANNOT stretch the field. When this happens the run game stops working its magic as well. Look at the new england or philly game, cant remember which, but we went deep a couple times, Ash and rod made the plays. The next time in the same formation, the defense was kept honest cuz of this and tatum ripped some long runs. Yeah he may not live up to his potential, but he makes the tuff catches, and stretches the field. i might be rippin the bong to hard but even if he isnt playing well his presence keeps the d honest and allows our run game to open up.

    so lay of the guy a little, unless we can get another deep burner in exchange then i will join the other side

    Who stretched the field in 1997-1999? eddie mac sure, Rod maybe.

    We have not had a burner forever till this clown came to town. That's all he has done is caught some long balls til last year when he caught FEW over the middle. He has mdae some circus catches on doubt about it but he caught at less than 48% of the balls trown to him last year. Some wgtdhe
    were Jakes fault perhaps with not getting them to where he was on the field. But no one on this board knows for sure where he was supposed to be either.

    This is a run first offense that makes the pass option works not the other way around.

    He had nothing to do with tater ripping off a couple of runs other than maybe a block for him while on the field.

    Rod keeps the Def honest and ashley gets a few passes cause Rod is double covered.

    I repeat WHO was the burner n this squad before ashley came to town? Our offense was better with out him.
    Last edited by Jrhampton; 04-14-2006, 02:39 PM.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Jrhampton
      Who stretched the field in 1997-1999? eddie mac sure, Rod maybe.

      We have not had a burner forever till this clown came to town. That's all he has done is caught some long balls til last year when he caught FEW over the middle.

      This is a run first offense that makes the pass option works not the other way around.

      He had nothing to do with tater ripping off a couple of runs other than maybe a block for him while on the field.

      Rod keeps the Def honest and ashley gets a few passes cause Rod is double covered.

      I repeat WHO was the burner n this squad before ashley came to town? Our offense was better with out him.
      Shanahan had ALWAYS wanted a guy that could stretch the field Jr. Even in '97 and 98. Besides that who was a qb then our team was by far better at qb as well.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by underrated29
        alright at least im not the only one... i was getting worried. have a cp for your intelligence.
        You are definetly not the only one. I have thought this. Lelie is a huge key to the team. Take him away and we have serious problems. People need to quit bashing him. We are lucky to have a great #2 reciever unlike other NFL teams!
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Grover
          Ashley and Jake didn't seem like they were on the same page a number of times last year. I don't know whether it was poor throws or poor routes, but the pair looked pretty foolish at times. It just seemed like the chemistry or the communication was way off.

          In all fairness, Ashley made some great catches as well. But he only scored one or two touchdowns last year, and didn't have a whole lot of catches.

          Then you get a story out that says Ashley is working out on his own and not with the team, and it gives people cause to wonder if he is long-term with the club. So then you get posts speculating that Ashley will be traded, and suggestions on who else to bring in to replace him. Pretty soon, Ashley is a no good punk and we'd be better off without him. This is exaggerated by the fact that he was a first round pick and expectations are high.

          If Ashley doesn't get traded and if he goes over the middle like he was doing at the end of 2005, and if he and Jake connect on some long passes, then all the folks disrespecting him right now will be singing his praises this time next year.

          But Jake and Ashley need to make it happen.
          Trust me, it was poor throwing!

          Lelie clearly demonstrated the year before that he has the tools (1000+ yards, led the league in yards per catch).

          Last year, passing was more conservative, and it showed in Lelie's numbers.

          Lelie has the talent and desire to do the job. We better not get rid of him... IMO
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          • #20
            Originally posted by Jrhampton
            Who stretched the field in 1997-1999? eddie mac sure, Rod maybe.

            We have not had a burner forever till this clown came to town. That's all he has done is caught some long balls til last year when he caught FEW over the middle. He has mdae some circus catches on doubt about it but he caught at less than 48% of the balls trown to him last year. Some wgtdhe
            were Jakes fault perhaps with not getting them to where he was on the field. But no one on this board knows for sure where he was supposed to be either.

            This is a run first offense that makes the pass option works not the other way around.

            He had nothing to do with tater ripping off a couple of runs other than maybe a block for him while on the field.

            Rod keeps the Def honest and ashley gets a few passes cause Rod is double covered.

            I repeat WHO was the burner n this squad before ashley came to town? Our offense was better with out him.
            Before we got Ash we had Rod, Eddie Mac and Sharpe. These 3 guys were dominate and now we're only left with one of the 3 and his supporting cast has put a lot more pressure onto him. Lelie will never be like Rod, Sharpe or Eddie, but he can be himself and continue to do what he does well. Which is stretch the field, catch the deep ball, drawing double coverage or get teams top corners on him for his deep speed.

            This helps Rod in more ways then one because he gets the teams #2 corner on him underneathe and I liek Rod on a #2 CB anyday. We shouldn't be pointing our fingers at Lelie and bad mouthing him when all he's done is imrpove every year it mght be slower than we like, but everybody doesn't come in and explode. It usually takes a WR 3 years to catch onto the game, because of the game speed the playbooks and other factors.

            If we want to point fingers at anybody it should be our 3rd WR who does absoletely nothing do anything good and is just another body on the field. When we have our TE at third WR then there are signs of us being extremely weak at the WR spot. Now I've been against getting Jackson/Holmes in the 1st round, but looking at where we're at and what will be available at the spot there isn't much value there unless we go RB.

            Getting either of the 2 in the 1st round would give us a better chance at keeping a decent WR corps in the life after Rod. I don't want to embrace this time, but we really should consider moving Rod to the #2 spot and center the passing game around Lelie since we'll be seeing more of him within the next couple of years.

            The real question you should be asking JR is when was the last time we had a good 3rd WR and TE?
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            • #21
              Originally posted by broncos_mtnman
              Trust me, it was poor throwing!

              Lelie clearly demonstrated the year before that he has the tools (1000+ yards, led the league in yards per catch).

              Last year, passing was more conservative, and it showed in Lelie's numbers.

              Lelie has the talent and desire to do the job. We better not get rid of him... IMO

              Lelie's success in 2004 is a direct result of the increased "Rules of Empahsis".

              Little db's couldn't put their hands on him and own him like before.

              In 2005, they kind lightened up on the "ROE" so db's owned Ashley again.


              At any rate, I think he's a disapointment for being a first round pick. This is why Ash gets all the flack he does. He's mediocre and he shouldn't be.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by vicious2500
                Before we got Ash we had Rod, Eddie Mac and Sharpe. These 3 guys were dominate and now we're only left with one of the 3 and his supporting cast has put a lot more pressure onto him. Lelie will never be like Rod, Sharpe or Eddie, but he can be himself and continue to do what he does well. Which is stretch the field, catch the deep ball, drawing double coverage or get teams top corners on him for his deep speed.

                This helps Rod in more ways then one because he gets the teams #2 corner on him underneathe and I liek Rod on a #2 CB anyday. We shouldn't be pointing our fingers at Lelie and bad mouthing him when all he's done is imrpove every year it mght be slower than we like, but everybody doesn't come in and explode. It usually takes a WR 3 years to catch onto the game, because of the game speed the playbooks and other factors.

                If we want to point fingers at anybody it should be our 3rd WR who does absoletely nothing do anything good and is just another body on the field. When we have our TE at third WR then there are signs of us being extremely weak at the WR spot. Now I've been against getting Jackson/Holmes in the 1st round, but looking at where we're at and what will be available at the spot there isn't much value there unless we go RB.

                Getting either of the 2 in the 1st round would give us a better chance at keeping a decent WR corps in the life after Rod. I don't want to embrace this time, but we really should consider moving Rod to the #2 spot and center the passing game around Lelie since we'll be seeing more of him within the next couple of years.

                The real question you should be asking JR is when was the last time we had a good 3rd WR and TE?
                Your correct but everyone is suggesting without a burner our offense is gonna collapse.

                We had a good TE not a "sharpe" but a good one, no less in Putz.

                Our number 2 is putting up #4 numbers and he is a burner

                What we need is a consistent I repeat consistent #2 that can go over the middle and be an Eddie MAC that gets the tough third down beyond the marker. He need to cacth and run with 60-75 passes.

                We need a TE that catches and runs with 45-60 passes.

                Then ashley can do his thing 40 times a year and hope he scores more than he did last year.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by The Dark Knight
                  Lelie's success in 2004 is a direct result of the increased "Rules of Empahsis".

                  Little db's couldn't put their hands on him and own him like before.

                  In 2005, they kind lightened up on the "ROE" so db's owned Ashley again.


                  At any rate, I think he's a disapointment for being a first round pick. This is why Ash gets all the flack he does. He's mediocre and he shouldn't be.

                  Amen brother, your singing to the choir!!

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by The Dark Knight
                    Lelie's success in 2004 is a direct result of the increased "Rules of Empahsis".

                    Little db's couldn't put their hands on him and own him like before.

                    In 2005, they kind lightened up on the "ROE" so db's owned Ashley again.


                    At any rate, I think he's a disapointment for being a first round pick. This is why Ash gets all the flack he does. He's mediocre and he shouldn't be.

                    Using your ROE explanation, there's no reason to get excited about Walker either, then.

                    It was 2004 that he got his big numbers too.

                    In addition, he plays in an offense where there are alot more passes being thrown than we throw.
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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by broncos_mtnman
                      Using your ROE explanation, there's no reason to get excited about Walker either, then.

                      It was 2004 that he got his big numbers too.

                      In addition, he plays in an offense where there are alot more passes being thrown than we throw.

                      I agree to a point.

                      Walker may have had inflated numbers in 2004 but I still think he's the better receiver.

                      I'd be willing to bet that most would agree with me.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jrhampton
                        Your correct but everyone is suggesting without a burner our offense is gonna collapse.

                        We had a good TE not a "sharpe" but a good one, no less in Putz.

                        Our number 2 is putting up #4 numbers and he is a burner

                        What we need is a consistent I repeat consistent #2 that can go over the middle and be an Eddie MAC that gets the tough third down beyond the marker. He need to cacth and run with 60-75 passes.

                        We need a TE that catches and runs with 45-60 passes.

                        Then ashley can do his thing 40 times a year and hope he scores more than he did last year.
                        Well if you think about it our offense will collapse without Lelie, none of the other WRs on the team do anything to contribute to our WR corps and we cut our 3rd best WR. If we were to cutt Lelie like a lot of people on this forum are wanting we're left with Rod Smith and then a bunch of unproven nobodies.

                        This would basically force us to draft Holmes/Jackson in the 1st round out of need instead of neccesity. I'm not really sold on either of the two, but Holmes has what it takes to be a denver WR. Jackson is looking more like a more physical version of lelie. When I say physical I mean being able to get off the jam and slightly more willing to go over the middle. I'm hoping Bunkley falls to us, but his stock is rising and it looks more and more likely not to happen.

                        I hope we get a WR in the draft that can play the possesion WR role that Eddie mac played and its looking like a possiblity with us bringin in stovall for an interview he's 6'5 and likes to go over the middle. Sounds good to me, it'd also be nice to get Brandon Marshall. Here's to us getting a possesion WR and a good TE .
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                        • #27
                          I think in order for any WR to stretch the field in our type of offense, we need a TE that can stretch the MIDDLE of the field.

                          With Rod doing underneath and Lelie going deep, the safety can pick and choose who he wants to cover.

                          Also, with a TE that can stretch it would keep the safeties honest and not be able to play up on the run like they do.

                          Lelie can stretch it no question. I think the knock we all have on him is he is too inconsistent for being a 1st rounder like he is and would like to see a more complete WR out of him.

                          If he can get the job done, then keep him. If there is someone out there that can and will do it better, then make a trade or something to get him.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by vicious2500
                            Well if you think about it our offense will collapse without Lelie, none of the other WRs on the team do anything to contribute to our WR corps.....


                            Shouldn't that say Rod instead of Lelie???

                            You know, the WR that did nothing on this team last year and only made the pro bowl.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by watchthemiddle


                              Shouldn't that say Rod instead of Lelie???

                              You know, the WR that did nothing on this team last year and only made the pro bowl.
                              Outside of Lelie and Rod, Lelie is a good #2 WR he might not be living up to his 1st round potential, but its better than being like Watts has been thus far.
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                              • #30
                                ehh, i still say we should trade for javon. he isnt as great a deep threat as lelie, but still is good with that. lelie isnt consistent, and you need to be that to be a good WR. although, i do agree with what you said, it helps our running game.

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