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why is every 1 down on ash

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  • #31
    Originally posted by The Dark Knight
    I agree to a point.

    Walker may have had inflated numbers in 2004 but I still think he's the better receiver.

    I'd be willing to bet that most would agree with me.
    Well, according to a poll that was done in another thread, only about 20% agree with you.

    80% say stick with Lelie.
    sigpic

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    • #32
      Originally posted by broncos_mtnman
      Well, according to a poll that was done in another thread, only about 20% agree with you.

      80% say stick with Lelie.
      __________________________________________________ ________________________________

      Let's do a poll on Jake .

      Comment


      • #33
        I've said it before in another thread....A lot of US think that Lelie should be the second coming of EMac. There will never be another Emac in Denver, he was a diamond in the rough. So please, people, stop the comparisons. Now I agree to a certain extent that he's not worth the 1st round pick that he was, but the game play of the Broncos HAS changed and is more conservative than agressive. Our team right now is built to maintain leads and not built for comebacks.

        Now this would be an awesome scenario....We trade Lelie to GB for Walker (and what ever neccessary additives). Lelie's a FA at the end of this season, he sucks in GB and they don't offer him an extention. We "convince" him to come back here and have both Walker and Lelie (assuming that Rod retires) for the '07 season.

        Just a thought so easy on the bashing!!!!

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Superchop7
          __________________________________________________ ________________________________

          Let's do a poll on Jake .
          Why that's already been done to death? We know what the majority think including myself, just like the majority agree with my thinking about Lelie.

          Its senseless to bring this up as the basis for your arguement imo.
          John 11: 25-27

          My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



          Thanks Snk16

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          • #35
            b/c hes Hawiian duh..
            -Bronco in UT


            While I both agree and disagree with many posts in this thread I have to lean towards champ on this one. Jay really needs to learn how to manage the game better, and also to learn that you don't have to go for the big play EVERY time on every drive. There is something to be said to check the ball down and live to fight another day. -Great Post Cut the Excuses out please. sigh...

            Helll of a post

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            • #36
              If anyone thinks Ashley is better than Javon Walker...those people are crazy. I do this for a living, analyzing talent. It's obvious Walker has the edge in almost every skill that matters. No doubt about the fact that Ashley is talented, but his hands are very inconsistent and his ball skills can't even put a candle up to Walker's skills. If you can poll some NFL GMs you'd know what I mean...because I actually have.

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              • #37
                It isnt his fault, remmber 2004 we was a worst team we was down more than this

                year. Jake and our offense had to do more passing than running. look at thestats

                last year, Jake passed alot more. Also jake didnt want to pass long, cuz most ints

                came from the long passes. We focused on running the ball this year, Ash is good

                a 1,000 yard season doesnt mean anything Bills great WR Andre Reed didnt have

                1,000 yard season until his 5th season. plus bills is a passing team before the

                Thurman Thomas ERA. Marvin harrison didnt have a 1,000 season until his 3 or 4

                season, and he was a ashley type reciver than he changed his game plan. WE do

                not need to draft a WR in the first round we got alot of WR in the mix right now i

                think we should just try to get Veron Davis or Brandon Marshall.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by daniel80111
                  If anyone thinks Ashley is better than Javon Walker...those people are crazy. I do this for a living, analyzing talent. It's obvious Walker has the edge in almost every skill that matters. No doubt about the fact that Ashley is talented, but his hands are very inconsistent and his ball skills can't even put a candle up to Walker's skills. If you can poll some NFL GMs you'd know what I mean...because I actually have.
                  His hands are not the problem he and Rod dropped about the same number of passes. You can make strong arguement about his route running ability but as holding on to the ball that isn't a problem.
                  John 11: 25-27

                  My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                  Thanks Snk16

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TXBRONC
                    His hands are not the problem he and Rod dropped about the same number of passes. You can make strong arguement about his route running ability but as holding on to the ball that isn't a problem.
                    Here is what I posted a while back about the 2 players...

                    both receivers have first class talent. The main difference between the two players is, Javon Walker is much more aggressive going after the ball when its in the air and has much better ball skills. Lelie has better speed and explosiveness but his ball skills are nowhere near where Walker's are. As for hands, you definitely have to give the edge to Walker due to his ability to make tough catches in traffic. Lelie tends to shy away and short arm catches in trafffic. As a deep threat, Lelie has the edge as he stretches the defense, yet he still is not a consistent enough of a deep threat to take the safety with him. I would like to see consistency in terms of Lelie's intensity through each and every game. He plays like a pro bowler in some games, and in others he looks like a 3rd receiver. He hasn't yet proved that he can catch passes. He should be utilized as a jump ball threat in the red zone due to his size, but he is much too passive to consistently fight and come down with the ball. In terms of creating separation, Walker has the edge due to his strength and ability to get off the line of scrimmage. The big wild card here will be Walker's durability. Arguably, he's had one freak injury that has sidelined him. No one really knows how his knee will respond coming back next year, but we will see if he still has the explosive jumping ability he possessed prior to hurting his knee. We all know Lelie is able to stay healthy and his durability is not really a question mark. Overall, I'd be more than happy to see Walker on the Broncos next year. His football IQ is undeniable, and even without the explosive ability, he's a receiver that will find a way to stay in the league for a long time. It would be a gamble, but I'm all in favor of seeing Javon Walker at Mile High next year.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Really the thing that matters most is "who creates more fear in the cornerback standing in front of him?" I think the answer to that question is hands down Javon Walker. As much as a "deep threat" that Ashley is, its because he has trouble making tough catches in traffic. Shanahan does not send him over the middle to make tough catches. And this is not because we already have Rod Smith, if you can attack the secondary in more ways than just running deep routes all the time, you would. He is one dimensional when it comes to his route running. It's strange when even Randy Moss is a better option going over the middle than Ashley is. Javon plays consistently every game, and I know Ashley had a great season 2 years ago, but his level of intensity is questionable during some games. Like I said, I've talked to GMs I've talked to coaches, and most of them agree that Javon Walker is a better wide receiver than Ashley Lelie.
                      Last edited by daniel80111; 04-15-2006, 12:21 PM.

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                      • #41
                        i think we should have picked up Bradon Llyod This say it all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zEMY...bradon%20lloyd

                        look at those catches. He never had a good QB, he could be a good WR

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by joonyah9
                          I've said it before in another thread....A lot of US think that Lelie should be the second coming of EMac. There will never be another Emac in Denver, he was a diamond in the rough. So please, people, stop the comparisons. Now I agree to a certain extent that he's not worth the 1st round pick that he was, but the game play of the Broncos HAS changed and is more conservative than agressive. Our team right now is built to maintain leads and not built for comebacks.

                          Now this would be an awesome scenario....We trade Lelie to GB for Walker (and what ever neccessary additives). Lelie's a FA at the end of this season, he sucks in GB and they don't offer him an extention. We "convince" him to come back here and have both Walker and Lelie (assuming that Rod retires) for the '07 season.

                          Just a thought so easy on the bashing!!!!

                          I've never heard anyone suggesting that ashley would ever be eddie mac.

                          I have heard that some would like him to be better going over the middle.

                          ashley could never be eddie, so please don't go there.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TXBRONC
                            His hands are not the problem he and Rod dropped about the same number of passes. You can make strong arguement about his route running ability but as holding on to the ball that isn't a problem.
                            Lets not go there.

                            *****rec***targeted****%***1st downs****yac***avryac*missed /%
                            Rod**85****126*******67.5 ****55********423**4.98****41/32.5
                            ashley42****88********47.7****30********203**4.83* ***46/52.3

                            Now if we really knew what the routes were supposed to be, We could have a debate about that one. But I'd guess we are on the same side of this one.
                            Last edited by Jrhampton; 04-15-2006, 12:55 PM.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Jrhampton
                              I've never heard anyone suggesting that ashley would ever be eddie mac.

                              I have heard that some would like him to be better going over the middle.

                              ashley could never be eddie, so please don't go there.
                              Just like McCaffery could never be Harrison, Moss, or Chad Johnson.
                              John 11: 25-27

                              My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                              Thanks Snk16

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by TXBRONC
                                Just like McCaffery could never be Harrison, Moss, or Chad Johnson.

                                are you suggesting that ashley could?

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