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why is every 1 down on ash

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  • SPLITTINGBUNS
    replied
    He maybe the second best but that clown cant catch the easy ones.

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    I think it would also behoove us to use Lelie more in the short and intermediate range passing game.

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeyrow
    replied
    Objective Evaluations of WR

    <http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr.php>

    According to football outsiders, Ashlie performed as the 47th best WR in football last year. He caught the ball 48% of the time passes were intended to him, not necessarily dropped.

    In 2004, he was rated 16th with 53 percent completion rate
    In 2003, he was rated 42nd with 46 percent completion rate

    Looking at the rankings it is VERY RARE for a WR that completes less than 50% to be a starter in the NFL.

    I would grant that Ashley has been asked to be the deep threat which could contribute to the lower percentage. His rookie completion percentage was higher with Greise, but Broncos had three other threats, and Ashley played more slot. Jake was also coached not to throw it up in 2005, and perhaps he just didn't have confidence to throw it deep as much or confidence in Lelie.

    Now with Putzier gone, Ashlie is our only other "threat" besides Rod. Broncos MUST pick up an offensive threat in TE or WR, or this season looks scary. Hopefully the news that Terrell is ready to play this year will allow another deep threat so Ashlie can mix it up more in routes where Jake is comfortable.

    I wouldn't write Ashlie off, but he needs to get in sync with Jake. I don't see Shanny telling Jake to go less conservative next year, so Ashlie better make himself a target in Jake's eyes.

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    2005 Rod Smith 10th (67% catch) 1,105yds, 6TD
    2005 Ashley* 47th (48% catch) 770yds, 1TD
    2005 Putzier 12thTE (64% catch) 481 yds, 0TD
    2005 Alexander 41stTE (58% catch) 170 yds, 1TD

    2004 Rod Smith 25th (58% catch) 1,144 yds, 8TD
    2004 Ashley* 16th (53% catch) 1,084yds, 7TD
    2004 Putzier 6thTE (67% catch) 572 yds, 2TD
    2004 Watts 62nd (58% catch) 385yds, 1TD
    2004 Carswell 28thTE (61% catch) 198 yds, 1TD

    (Jake Plummer now QB, misses 5 starts in 2003)
    2003 Rod Smith 25th (65% catch) 846 yds, 4TD
    2003 Sharpe 2ndTE (66% catch) 756 yds, 8TD
    2003 Ashley* 42nd (46% catch) 628 yds, 2TD
    2003 Eddie Mac N/R (56% catch) 189 yds, 0TD

    (Last year for Greise as QB)
    2002 Rod Smith 33rd (61% catch) 1,027 yds, 5TD
    2002 Eddie Mac 26th (67% catch) 903 yds, 2TD
    2002 Sharpe 5thTE (69% catch) 686 yds, 3TD
    2002 Ashley* 28th (66% catch) 525 yds, 2TD
    2002 Carswell 27thTE (72% catch) 189 yds, 1TD

    2001 Rod Smith 6th (66% catch) 1,343 yds, 11TD
    2001 Eddie Ken 49th (62% catch) 490 yds, 1TD
    2001 Clark 7thTE (66% catch) 566 yds, 6TD
    2001 Carswell 23rdTE (60% catch) 299 yds, 5TD
    2001 Eddie Mac (Broken leg during first game of year)

    2000 Rod Smith 5th (58% catch) 1,618 yds, 8TD
    2000 Eddie Mac 14th (68% catch) 1,317 yds, 9TD
    2000 Carswell 6thTE (77% catch) 495 yds, 3TD
    2000 Clark 11thTE (71% catch) 339 yds, 3TD
    2000 Chamberlin13thTE (69% catch) 283yds, 2TD

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by TXBRONC
    A dropped pass is a dropped pass. The route itself doesn't cause drops.

    Your correct but as a percentage to attempts he is dismal compared to Rod.

    I was not really arguing about the routes.....

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by Jrhampton
    Lets not go there.

    *****rec***targeted****%***1st downs****yac***avryac*missed /%
    Rod**85****126*******67.5 ****55********423**4.98****41/32.5
    ashley42****88********47.7****30********203**4.83* ***46/52.3

    Now if we really knew what the routes were supposed to be, We could have a debate about that one. But I'd guess we are on the same side of this one.
    A dropped pass is a dropped pass. The route itself doesn't cause drops.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by TXBRONC
    Just like McCaffery could never be Harrison, Moss, or Chad Johnson.

    are you suggesting that ashley could?

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by Jrhampton
    I've never heard anyone suggesting that ashley would ever be eddie mac.

    I have heard that some would like him to be better going over the middle.

    ashley could never be eddie, so please don't go there.
    Just like McCaffery could never be Harrison, Moss, or Chad Johnson.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by TXBRONC
    His hands are not the problem he and Rod dropped about the same number of passes. You can make strong arguement about his route running ability but as holding on to the ball that isn't a problem.
    Lets not go there.

    *****rec***targeted****%***1st downs****yac***avryac*missed /%
    Rod**85****126*******67.5 ****55********423**4.98****41/32.5
    ashley42****88********47.7****30********203**4.83* ***46/52.3

    Now if we really knew what the routes were supposed to be, We could have a debate about that one. But I'd guess we are on the same side of this one.
    Last edited by Jrhampton; 04-15-2006, 12:55 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jrhampton
    replied
    Originally posted by joonyah9
    I've said it before in another thread....A lot of US think that Lelie should be the second coming of EMac. There will never be another Emac in Denver, he was a diamond in the rough. So please, people, stop the comparisons. Now I agree to a certain extent that he's not worth the 1st round pick that he was, but the game play of the Broncos HAS changed and is more conservative than agressive. Our team right now is built to maintain leads and not built for comebacks.

    Now this would be an awesome scenario....We trade Lelie to GB for Walker (and what ever neccessary additives). Lelie's a FA at the end of this season, he sucks in GB and they don't offer him an extention. We "convince" him to come back here and have both Walker and Lelie (assuming that Rod retires) for the '07 season.

    Just a thought so easy on the bashing!!!!

    I've never heard anyone suggesting that ashley would ever be eddie mac.

    I have heard that some would like him to be better going over the middle.

    ashley could never be eddie, so please don't go there.

    Leave a comment:


  • P-NUT33
    replied
    i think we should have picked up Bradon Llyod This say it all http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zEMY...bradon%20lloyd

    look at those catches. He never had a good QB, he could be a good WR

    Leave a comment:


  • daniel80111
    replied
    Really the thing that matters most is "who creates more fear in the cornerback standing in front of him?" I think the answer to that question is hands down Javon Walker. As much as a "deep threat" that Ashley is, its because he has trouble making tough catches in traffic. Shanahan does not send him over the middle to make tough catches. And this is not because we already have Rod Smith, if you can attack the secondary in more ways than just running deep routes all the time, you would. He is one dimensional when it comes to his route running. It's strange when even Randy Moss is a better option going over the middle than Ashley is. Javon plays consistently every game, and I know Ashley had a great season 2 years ago, but his level of intensity is questionable during some games. Like I said, I've talked to GMs I've talked to coaches, and most of them agree that Javon Walker is a better wide receiver than Ashley Lelie.
    Last edited by daniel80111; 04-15-2006, 12:21 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • daniel80111
    replied
    Originally posted by TXBRONC
    His hands are not the problem he and Rod dropped about the same number of passes. You can make strong arguement about his route running ability but as holding on to the ball that isn't a problem.
    Here is what I posted a while back about the 2 players...

    both receivers have first class talent. The main difference between the two players is, Javon Walker is much more aggressive going after the ball when its in the air and has much better ball skills. Lelie has better speed and explosiveness but his ball skills are nowhere near where Walker's are. As for hands, you definitely have to give the edge to Walker due to his ability to make tough catches in traffic. Lelie tends to shy away and short arm catches in trafffic. As a deep threat, Lelie has the edge as he stretches the defense, yet he still is not a consistent enough of a deep threat to take the safety with him. I would like to see consistency in terms of Lelie's intensity through each and every game. He plays like a pro bowler in some games, and in others he looks like a 3rd receiver. He hasn't yet proved that he can catch passes. He should be utilized as a jump ball threat in the red zone due to his size, but he is much too passive to consistently fight and come down with the ball. In terms of creating separation, Walker has the edge due to his strength and ability to get off the line of scrimmage. The big wild card here will be Walker's durability. Arguably, he's had one freak injury that has sidelined him. No one really knows how his knee will respond coming back next year, but we will see if he still has the explosive jumping ability he possessed prior to hurting his knee. We all know Lelie is able to stay healthy and his durability is not really a question mark. Overall, I'd be more than happy to see Walker on the Broncos next year. His football IQ is undeniable, and even without the explosive ability, he's a receiver that will find a way to stay in the league for a long time. It would be a gamble, but I'm all in favor of seeing Javon Walker at Mile High next year.

    Leave a comment:


  • TXBRONC
    replied
    Originally posted by daniel80111
    If anyone thinks Ashley is better than Javon Walker...those people are crazy. I do this for a living, analyzing talent. It's obvious Walker has the edge in almost every skill that matters. No doubt about the fact that Ashley is talented, but his hands are very inconsistent and his ball skills can't even put a candle up to Walker's skills. If you can poll some NFL GMs you'd know what I mean...because I actually have.
    His hands are not the problem he and Rod dropped about the same number of passes. You can make strong arguement about his route running ability but as holding on to the ball that isn't a problem.

    Leave a comment:


  • P-NUT33
    replied
    It isnt his fault, remmber 2004 we was a worst team we was down more than this

    year. Jake and our offense had to do more passing than running. look at thestats

    last year, Jake passed alot more. Also jake didnt want to pass long, cuz most ints

    came from the long passes. We focused on running the ball this year, Ash is good

    a 1,000 yard season doesnt mean anything Bills great WR Andre Reed didnt have

    1,000 yard season until his 5th season. plus bills is a passing team before the

    Thurman Thomas ERA. Marvin harrison didnt have a 1,000 season until his 3 or 4

    season, and he was a ashley type reciver than he changed his game plan. WE do

    not need to draft a WR in the first round we got alot of WR in the mix right now i

    think we should just try to get Veron Davis or Brandon Marshall.

    Leave a comment:


  • daniel80111
    replied
    If anyone thinks Ashley is better than Javon Walker...those people are crazy. I do this for a living, analyzing talent. It's obvious Walker has the edge in almost every skill that matters. No doubt about the fact that Ashley is talented, but his hands are very inconsistent and his ball skills can't even put a candle up to Walker's skills. If you can poll some NFL GMs you'd know what I mean...because I actually have.

    Leave a comment:

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