Announcement

**jhns** · 05-24-2006, 07:18 PM

I don't even think it's worth commenting on this thread but welcome to the boards.

**Saddletramp** · 05-24-2006, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by jhns

I don't even think it's worth commenting on this thread but welcome to the boards.

hey jhns whats up?

I felt the same way but........I cant keep my mouth shut so here goes. How can people who CANNOT do a better job decide that the one who led us tho the Playoffs not be the one??? This has always really confused me. If you can't do it better don't tell the ones who can how to do it better.

**str8jacket** · 05-24-2006, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by legend111

It is so easy to see that the Qb in the broncos offence is just another person in the system. Anytime you have one of the top run games in the league it almost certantly makes the qb job easier

Hello people out of 32 teams in the nfl the broncos ended up with the number 2 run offence. ( great job handing the ball off plummer) how do you think plummer would have did had the broncos running back suffered injury's like Tom Bradys running backs? The answer is terrible it would have forced the broncos to throw more like Brady had to, which would have eventually led to more turnovers like the AFC CHAMPION SHIP GAME

You see what seperates great QB's from bad ones is how well they can perform in a game when the pressure is on. Its 4th and 8, 2min left and your down by four, that is pressure. lets face it people, once playoff time hits the most posied QB'S who never get rattled usually perfrom the best example(Tom BRADY, VINCE YOUNG, MCNAAB, ELWAY, AND BIG BEN) and usually in the playoffs your facing the bets Defences who can shut down the run GAME EXAMPLE, 2006 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

ALL in all the reason for the Broncos succes this year was due to a oustanding run game and a much better defence. ladys and gents Champ bailey by himself had more interceptions then some entire organizations which came at crucial points in several GAMES. The only reason the Broncos beat the patriots was because of champ and a pass interference call which gave the broncos the ball on the 1 yard line.

I know I have not mentiond Cutler that much but come on 11-43 pretty much speaks for itself and they say that's pretty good considering the talent around and his offensive line. I don't no about you guys but almost every highlight I 've seen of Cutler he had time and space. I also had the chance to wacth Culter at the Combine and the senior bowl along with every other prospect. I will say this about Cutler he threw the ball harder at the combine then anybody there and he had the most veloctiy on all his passes, every ball he throws is pretty, but he has the tendancy to through those pretty balls right into the defenders hands, just as he did at the senior bowl, even at the combine he threw some off target passes that they don' talk about how he over throuh Jason AVANT on a simple post route.

Keep in mind people the drills they do at the combine have been the same for many years and since then the game has evolved. I'm extremly dissapointed they don't have a drill that rates the qb under pressure and you wonder why the 2005 number 1 draft pick had 1 td and eleven ints.

TO sum it up the only difference between Jay cutler AND JAKE PLUMMER is that Cutler is bigger and stronger but they are alike in many different ways interception prone and unproven in Big games, but it dose'nt matter the Broncos have won games with Gus furraut and Danny kaneil and yes I know I probally misspelled thier names. the point is the Broncos could make alot of sorry qb's look good because they will always have a good run game and a defence that is to be respected, besides the Broncos are winners loosing seasons are unexceptable.

BEST ROOKIE QBS
Omar jacobs, VINCE YOUNG, MARCUS VICK (Did you know Vick played up againts more top defensive prospects then any rookie qb, tripple the amount lineheart did and including number 1 draft pick who he beat.)

RB'S
Reggie BUSH, Brian callhoun

wideouts
sinorce moss, Ben obamanu, CHAS JACKSON, JASON AVANT,SANTONIO HOLMES MAURICE STOVALL

Tight ends
VERNON DAVIS, LEONARD POPE MERCEDS LEWIS.

MORE POSITIONS AND PROSPECTS NEXT POAST.

lay off whatever your on alright? first off, look at some of those Qbs eh? gone before we picked

, marcus vick hes pathetic, CHAD Jackson=overrated, Santonio Holmes wouldnt fit and Javon has more epxirence, NEVER even heard of Obamanu, Sinorice Moss would mainly be a return man and a 4th stringer where he went, Reggie freakin bush went number 2 overall duh, and Brian Calhoun is good ill give him that but i like how we look now

**legend111** · 05-24-2006, 07:30 PM

?why Was Trent Dilfer Released After Winning Superbowl?
Beacause The Run Games And Defece Led Them Their Not Dilfer

Champ Baily And The Run Game Led Us There Not Plummer

**str8jacket** · 05-24-2006, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by legend111

?why Was Trent Dilfer Released After Winning Superbowl?
Beacause The Run Games And Defece Led Them Their Not Dilfer

Champ Baily And The Run Game Led Us There Not Plummer

yeah, so i guess his streak of passes without a pick had NOTHING at all to do with it, ok then bro

**JoRo** · 05-24-2006, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by legend111

It is so easy to see that the Qb in the broncos offence is just another person in the system. Anytime you have one of the top run games in the league it almost certantly makes the qb job easier

Hello people out of 32 teams in the nfl the broncos ended up with the number 2 run offence. ( great job handing the ball off plummer) how do you think plummer would have did had the broncos running back suffered injury's like Tom Bradys running backs? The answer is terrible it would have forced the broncos to throw more like Brady had to, which would have eventually led to more turnovers like the AFC CHAMPION SHIP GAME

You see what seperates great QB's from bad ones is how well they can perform in a game when the pressure is on. Its 4th and 8, 2min left and your down by four, that is pressure. lets face it people, once playoff time hits the most posied QB'S who never get rattled usually perfrom the best example(Tom BRADY, VINCE YOUNG, MCNAAB, ELWAY, AND BIG BEN) and usually in the playoffs your facing the bets Defences who can shut down the run GAME EXAMPLE, 2006 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

ALL in all the reason for the Broncos succes this year was due to a oustanding run game and a much better defence. ladys and gents Champ bailey by himself had more interceptions then some entire organizations which came at crucial points in several GAMES. The only reason the Broncos beat the patriots was because of champ and a pass interference call which gave the broncos the ball on the 1 yard line.

I know I have not mentiond Cutler that much but come on 11-43 pretty much speaks for itself and they say that's pretty good considering the talent around and his offensive line. I don't no about you guys but almost every highlight I 've seen of Cutler he had time and space. I also had the chance to wacth Culter at the Combine and the senior bowl along with every other prospect. I will say this about Cutler he threw the ball harder at the combine then anybody there and he had the most veloctiy on all his passes, every ball he throws is pretty, but he has the tendancy to through those pretty balls right into the defenders hands, just as he did at the senior bowl, even at the combine he threw some off target passes that they don' talk about how he over throuh Jason AVANT on a simple post route.

Keep in mind people the drills they do at the combine have been the same for many years and since then the game has evolved. I'm extremly dissapointed they don't have a drill that rates the qb under pressure and you wonder why the 2005 number 1 draft pick had 1 td and eleven ints.

TO sum it up the only difference between Jay cutler AND JAKE PLUMMER is that Cutler is bigger and stronger but they are alike in many different ways interception prone and unproven in Big games, but it dose'nt matter the Broncos have won games with Gus furraut and Danny kaneil and yes I know I probally misspelled thier names. the point is the Broncos could make alot of sorry qb's look good because they will always have a good run game and a defence that is to be respected, besides the Broncos are winners loosing seasons are unexceptable.

BEST ROOKIE QBS
Omar jacobs, VINCE YOUNG, MARCUS VICK (Did you know Vick played up againts more top defensive prospects then any rookie qb, tripple the amount lineheart did and including number 1 draft pick who he beat.)

RB'S
Reggie BUSH, Brian callhoun

wideouts
sinorce moss, Ben obamanu, CHAS JACKSON, JASON AVANT,SANTONIO HOLMES MAURICE STOVALL

Tight ends
VERNON DAVIS, LEONARD POPE MERCEDS LEWIS.

MORE POSITIONS AND PROSPECTS NEXT POAST.

Um... cough cough... in the super bowl Mcnabb really performed with his picks right?

**pipes** · 05-24-2006, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by MoFo_JoRo

Um... cough cough... in the super bowl Mcnabb really performed with his picks right?

Not to mention all of V. Young's playoff accomplishments!

**tnedator** · 05-24-2006, 07:39 PM

Originally posted by str8jacket

yeah, so i guess his streak of passes without a pick had NOTHING at all to do with it, ok then bro

Yea, what did it turn out to be, the second or third longest streak of passes without an INT?

**Ravage!!!** · 05-24-2006, 07:49 PM

I stopped reading after I saw you mention Vince Young in the same sentence as Brady and Roth...

**Archimedes Owl** · 05-24-2006, 08:05 PM

Originally posted by legend111

It is so easy to see that the Qb in the broncos offence is just another person in the system. Anytime you have one of the top run games in the league it almost certantly makes the qb job easier

Indeed it does. Of course, having a good passing game as we do makes it easier to have a top rushing game.

Hello people out of 32 teams in the nfl the broncos ended up with the number 2 run offence. ( great job handing the ball off plummer) how do you think plummer would have did had the broncos running back suffered injury's like Tom Bradys running backs? The answer is terrible it would have forced the broncos to throw more like Brady had to, which would have eventually led to more turnovers like the AFC CHAMPION SHIP GAME

Tom Brady's team is built differently. They have never been a great running team, but something should be noted about the Broncos running game: We have proven time and again that we can lose our starters and still be pretty damn good with our backup runners. Part of it is the system and part of it is because we do a good job of scouting runners.

You see what seperates great QB's from bad ones is how well they can perform in a game when the pressure is on. Its 4th and 8, 2min left and your down by four, that is pressure. lets face it people, once playoff time hits the most posied QB'S who never get rattled usually perfrom the best example(Tom BRADY, VINCE YOUNG, MCNAAB, ELWAY, AND BIG BEN) and usually in the playoffs your facing the bets Defences who can shut down the run GAME EXAMPLE, 2006 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

What seperates great QBs from bad ones are good QBs and mediocre QBs. There are not just two types of QBs. There are great QBs. Who we'd all like to have, but are hard to come by. There are good QBs. Plummer falls into this category. He's been an above average QB for us. In '04, he threw more picks than we'd like, but he played well for us. There are mediocre QBs who teams stick with because they're decent, but would like to try to get a good QB instead (Gus Ferrotte types). Then there are bad QBs who teams try to replace as quick as possible. They jump from team to team as stopgap measures (This would be like Trent Dilfer).

As for your list of great QBs, may I ask why the hell you even included a college player who hasn't played a game in the pros?? Is it because of the Rose Bowl?? Did you watch Cutler play. If not, watch him play with his weak Vandy team around him to single handedly pull out a victory against a pretty good Tennessee team. That game was amazing and shows that he has as much promise as Vince Young, but will adapt to the pro offense quicker and has fewer question marks. He is mobile.

Cutler may not be the answer, but he has plenty of potential to be as good as any QB you listed.

ALL in all the reason for the Broncos succes this year was due to a oustanding run game and a much better defence. ladys and gents Champ bailey by himself had more interceptions then some entire organizations which came at crucial points in several GAMES. The only reason the Broncos beat the patriots was because of champ and a pass interference call which gave the broncos the ball on the 1 yard line.

Actually, that's what sealed the game, not what won it, but it was pretty important.

I know I have not mentiond Cutler that much but come on 11-43 pretty much speaks for itself and they say that's pretty good considering the talent around and his offensive line. I don't no about you guys but almost every highlight I 've seen of Cutler he had time and space. I also had the chance to wacth Culter at the Combine and the senior bowl along with every other prospect. I will say this about Cutler he threw the ball harder at the combine then anybody there and he had the most veloctiy on all his passes, every ball he throws is pretty, but he has the tendancy to through those pretty balls right into the defenders hands, just as he did at the senior bowl, even at the combine he threw some off target passes that they don' talk about how he over throuh Jason AVANT on a simple post route.

So, you're basing you disdain for him and labeling him as a bust because he screwed up a single throw??

As for every highlight you watched of Cutler, you must not have seen many because most I've seen showed the exact opposite and every expert that I've heard analyze Cutler saw the same thing, so excuse me as I disregard your opinion as uneducated.

You say that he threw the ball to defenders left and right, but according to his player page, in college, he threw 21 touchdowns in his senior year and only 9 picks. That's pretty good. Especially for the team he played for.

Keep in mind people the drills they do at the combine have been the same for many years and since then the game has evolved. I'm extremly dissapointed they don't have a drill that rates the qb under pressure and you wonder why the 2005 number 1 draft pick had 1 td and eleven ints.

Expound. I have no idea who you're talking about. Do you mean Cutler??

TO sum it up the only difference between Jay cutler AND JAKE PLUMMER is that Cutler is bigger and stronger but they are alike in many different ways interception prone and unproven in Big games, but it dose'nt matter the Broncos have won games with Gus furraut and Danny kaneil and yes I know I probally misspelled thier names. the point is the Broncos could make alot of sorry qb's look good because they will always have a good run game and a defence that is to be respected, besides the Broncos are winners loosing seasons are unexceptable.

Of course we make our QBs look better than they would on another team, but let me ask you this:

Do the Patriots make Tom Brady look better??

Do the Steelers make Ben Roethlisberger look better??

Do the Seahawks make Matt Hasselbeck look better??

Do the Colts make Peyton Manning look better??

Well, you get the point.

BEST ROOKIE QBS
Omar jacobs, VINCE YOUNG, MARCUS VICK (Did you know Vick played up againts more top defensive prospects then any rookie qb, tripple the amount lineheart did and including number 1 draft pick who he beat.)

Vick?? And you're criticizing Cutler for his decision making??

RB'S
Reggie BUSH, Brian callhoun

Wow, you should be a professional scout. How could all of our nations best scouts happen to so unanimously disagree with so many of your selections??

wideouts
sinorce moss, Ben obamanu, CHAS JACKSON, JASON AVANT,SANTONIO HOLMES MAURICE STOVALL

Tight ends
VERNON DAVIS, LEONARD POPE MERCEDS LEWIS.

MORE POSITIONS AND PROSPECTS NEXT POAST.

No offense, dude, but you haven't really given us any reason to give your opinions a shred of credence.

**Nick** · 05-24-2006, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by legend111

It is so easy to see that the Qb in the broncos offence is just another person in the system. Anytime you have one of the top run games in the league it almost certantly makes the qb job easier

Hello people out of 32 teams in the nfl the broncos ended up with the number 2 run offence. ( great job handing the ball off plummer) how do you think plummer would have did had the broncos running back suffered injury's like Tom Bradys running backs? The answer is terrible it would have forced the broncos to throw more like Brady had to, which would have eventually led to more turnovers like the AFC CHAMPION SHIP GAME

You see what seperates great QB's from bad ones is how well they can perform in a game when the pressure is on. Its 4th and 8, 2min left and your down by four, that is pressure. lets face it people, once playoff time hits the most posied QB'S who never get rattled usually perfrom the best example(Tom BRADY, VINCE YOUNG, MCNAAB, ELWAY, AND BIG BEN) and usually in the playoffs your facing the bets Defences who can shut down the run GAME EXAMPLE, 2006 AFC CHAMPIONSHIP GAME.

ALL in all the reason for the Broncos succes this year was due to a oustanding run game and a much better defence. ladys and gents Champ bailey by himself had more interceptions then some entire organizations which came at crucial points in several GAMES. The only reason the Broncos beat the patriots was because of champ and a pass interference call which gave the broncos the ball on the 1 yard line.

I know I have not mentiond Cutler that much but come on 11-43 pretty much speaks for itself and they say that's pretty good considering the talent around and his offensive line. I don't no about you guys but almost every highlight I 've seen of Cutler he had time and space. I also had the chance to wacth Culter at the Combine and the senior bowl along with every other prospect. I will say this about Cutler he threw the ball harder at the combine then anybody there and he had the most veloctiy on all his passes, every ball he throws is pretty, but he has the tendancy to through those pretty balls right into the defenders hands, just as he did at the senior bowl, even at the combine he threw some off target passes that they don' talk about how he over throuh Jason AVANT on a simple post route.

Keep in mind people the drills they do at the combine have been the same for many years and since then the game has evolved. I'm extremly dissapointed they don't have a drill that rates the qb under pressure and you wonder why the 2005 number 1 draft pick had 1 td and eleven ints.

TO sum it up the only difference between Jay cutler AND JAKE PLUMMER is that Cutler is bigger and stronger but they are alike in many different ways interception prone and unproven in Big games, but it dose'nt matter the Broncos have won games with Gus furraut and Danny kaneil and yes I know I probally misspelled thier names. the point is the Broncos could make alot of sorry qb's look good because they will always have a good run game and a defence that is to be respected, besides the Broncos are winners loosing seasons are unexceptable.

BEST ROOKIE QBS
Omar jacobs, VINCE YOUNG, MARCUS VICK (Did you know Vick played up againts more top defensive prospects then any rookie qb, tripple the amount lineheart did and including number 1 draft pick who he beat.)

RB'S
Reggie BUSH, Brian callhoun

wideouts
sinorce moss, Ben obamanu, CHAS JACKSON, JASON AVANT,SANTONIO HOLMES MAURICE STOVALL

Tight ends
VERNON DAVIS, LEONARD POPE MERCEDS LEWIS.

MORE POSITIONS AND PROSPECTS NEXT POAST.

First.. Welcome to the threads.

By the second paragraph... we all know you are a Pats fan. You are pretty upset I am sure the Broncos beat them in the playoffs.

Ok, in your 3rd paragraph you mention a great QB can perform well under pressure. It is a very important thing that seperates some great QB's and the elite. I understand how you can put that towards Plummer because he has choked in playoff games and has not gone all the way.

Jay Cutler is coming out of school from playing under pressure every given play. Playing a huge game every gamea because of the different ability with talent on the oposing team.

You mention 4th down.. and Vince Young. Mcnabb and Big Ben have not shown that ability as of yet. Vince young showed 1 4th down conversion when he "ran" it in for the TD at the rose bowl. Going by 4th downs and a two minute drive see Cutler in his final game against Tenn.

On your next paragraph I am reading I am starting to think not just that you do not understand football... and most likly jumped on the Pats Bandwagon after they won there last superbowl.. now losing that game and the prev. one to the Broncos.. Barley winning the one before that (which you will not remember because you were not a pats fan then) w/oneal screwing up field position etc.,

This thread should be in smack area.

Or you were that Pat's person that was banned off of here and abset off of that?

It is not the ONLY reason why a the team won the game.. It's because Brady can't play against the broncos D plain and simple.. not just this hyear and the years before. If I recall it goes all the back to the first AFL game. Also you guys got wooped by GB and we ended up beating them in the superbowl.

K next paragraph you are talking about Cutlers record so not just that you do not know about NFL you do not understand a NCAA. Great you watched one game with Cutler and I would say he very rarly had a huge gap and a pretty awful offensive line. Also it sounds like you havnt seen a highlight yet. A combine that measures pressure?? you are an idiot.. Scouts measure a persons improvement ability under pressure through out there college career and well everything..

Your best QB's Omar Jacobs Marcus Vick over Clemmons and Croyle OK..

Vince young, Marcus vick, and Lienart had pretty good teams and talant around with Texas and USC with maybe the best in NCAA.

Going back to under pressurre your best QB Marcus.. I guess you didn't see the sorry as Miami game.. Miami was not that great of a team compaired but you want to talk about INT's OUCH

Wide outs well it was a pretty bad year regarding WR's

W/ your TE's and Pope there is a reason why he droped so far.. and your pats got the better TE from that school in Watson.. but again you don't know about football

By Pats fan... I think you need to change the source you read about NFL on because you really don't understand the measure of a persons ability as well as a teams

**WABronco** · 05-24-2006, 08:14 PM

Dude...

Archimedes...I fell asleep halfway through that response (looooooooong). Good work though...

Ahahahaha, jk.

I got one for you guys though...ready?

legend111 is not the answer...and he never will be. As a matter of fact, he needs to be locked up in a Saddam-style rat-hole.

Ben Obamanu? 7th round draft pick, by the receiver-loaded Seahawks, Ben Obamanu? I'll write it down anyways...

**Black00SS** · 05-24-2006, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by Archimedes Owl

Indeed it does. Of course, having a good passing game as we do makes it easier to have a top rushing game.

Tom Brady's team is built differently. They have never been a great running team, but something should be noted about the Broncos running game: We have proven time and again that we can lose our starters and still be pretty damn good with our backup runners. Part of it is the system and part of it is because we do a good job of scouting runners.

What seperates great QBs from bad ones are good QBs and mediocre QBs. There are not just two types of QBs. There are great QBs. Who we'd all like to have, but are hard to come by. There are good QBs. Plummer falls into this category. He's been an above average QB for us. In '04, he threw more picks than we'd like, but he played well for us. There are mediocre QBs who teams stick with because they're decent, but would like to try to get a good QB instead (Gus Ferrotte types). Then there are bad QBs who teams try to replace as quick as possible. They jump from team to team as stopgap measures (This would be like Trent Dilfer).

As for your list of great QBs, may I ask why the hell you even included a college player who hasn't played a game in the pros?? Is it because of the Rose Bowl?? Did you watch Cutler play. If not, watch him play with his weak Vandy team around him to single handedly pull out a victory against a pretty good Tennessee team. That game was amazing and shows that he has as much promise as Vince Young, but will adapt to the pro offense quicker and has fewer question marks. He is mobile.

Cutler may not be the answer, but he has plenty of potential to be as good as any QB you listed.

Actually, that's what sealed the game, not what won it, but it was pretty important.

So, you're basing you disdain for him and labeling him as a bust because he screwed up a single throw??

As for every highlight you watched of Cutler, you must not have seen many because most I've seen showed the exact opposite and every expert that I've heard analyze Cutler saw the same thing, so excuse me as I disregard your opinion as uneducated.

You say that he threw the ball to defenders left and right, but according to his player page, in college, he threw 21 touchdowns in his senior year and only 9 picks. That's pretty good. Especially for the team he played for.

Expound. I have no idea who you're talking about. Do you mean Cutler??

Of course we make our QBs look better than they would on another team, but let me ask you this:

Do the Patriots make Tom Brady look better??

Do the Steelers make Ben Roethlisberger look better??

Do the Seahawks make Matt Hasselbeck look better??

Do the Colts make Peyton Manning look better??

Well, you get the point.

Vick?? And you're criticizing Cutler for his decision making??

Wow, you should be a professional scout. How could all of our nations best scouts happen to so unanimously disagree with so many of your selections??

No offense, dude, but you haven't really given us any reason to give your opinions a shred of credence.

Good job...CP to you.

I think he was talking about Alex Smith in 2005.

**WABronco** · 05-24-2006, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by Black00SS

Good job...CP to you.

I think he was talking about Alex Smith in 2005.

Yea, I better give him a CP too.

Announcement

jake plummer is not the answer neither is cutler

jake plummer is not the answer neither is cutler

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