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If our offense is west coast playbook based why did we draft Ashley?

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  • If our offense is west coast playbook based why did we draft Ashley?

    That makes no sense at ALL! Hes a little skiny piece of crap. I thought the west coast was based on YAC like T.O and ROD Produce. Maybe shanny just messed up draft day picking him. I thinki if Lelie played for the Pats he would become Toms go to guy. Even if he Played for the Lions this year. Martz would make him a probowler.
    -Bronco in UT


    While I both agree and disagree with many posts in this thread I have to lean towards champ on this one. Jay really needs to learn how to manage the game better, and also to learn that you don't have to go for the big play EVERY time on every drive. There is something to be said to check the ball down and live to fight another day. -Great Post Cut the Excuses out please. sigh...

    Helll of a post

  • #2
    Originally posted by Champ>NFL
    That makes no sense at ALL! Hes a little skiny piece of crap. I thought the west coast was based on YAC like T.O and ROD Produce. Maybe shanny just messed up draft day picking him. I thinki if Lelie played for the Pats he would become Toms go to guy. Even if he Played for the Lions this year. Martz would make him a probowler.
    Well, he IS tall and he's a bit skinny, but he is plenty tall to be a possession receiver. Also, the West Coast Offense is a base offense, but there are a lot of different things that you can do in it. I mean, look at Philly. Both Denver and Philly are west coast offenses, but we threw the ball less than any team but Pittsburgh while Philly was throwing it very often.

    Denver probably thought that Lelie was big enough for them to block and go over the middle to a degree, but they probably also liked his ability to go deep.

    What I recall reading somewhere was that we had Javon and him rated very close together, but opted on Lelie because the coach down in Hawaii is friends with some people on the Broncos staff. I don't know the specifics of that, but . . .
    My adopted fan is dogfish

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Champ>NFL
      That makes no sense at ALL! Hes a little skiny piece of crap. I thought the west coast was based on YAC like T.O and ROD Produce. Maybe shanny just messed up draft day picking him. I thinki if Lelie played for the Pats he would become Toms go to guy. Even if he Played for the Lions this year. Martz would make him a probowler.
      I think a lot of people would say that at best the Shanny offense is loosely based on the west coast offense. Meaning that we don't have a huge vertical passing offense, but at the same time we have never run a lot of throws to receivers at the line of scrimmage and let them do the rest.

      When the 49'rs popularized and/or invented the west coast offense, one of their bread and butter plays was a quick throw to a wide receiver who was basically stationary at the line of scrimmage and then the WR basically becomes a RB who just took a 10 yard lateral toss. Their offense was all about the YAC.

      The Shanny offense has never been as much about the YAC. This is an offense that is based on running the ball and passing the ball in a very balanced manner. More than YAC, it is pound the ball down their throats, throw short crossing patters and comebacks to move the chains, and when the defense starts to cheat in tight, then hit them for the long bomb.

      Whether it is playing calling or Lelie himself, he has never seemed to adapt to routes over the middle, but other than that, he has been a good fit for the Broncos.
      The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt

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      • #4
        Lelei's speed is a constant threat to the defense. His presence on the field loosens up the alignment of the safeties and corners. This helps the underneath routes by rod an it makes it more difficult for the defense to put 8 men in the box.

        Comment


        • #5
          We drafted Lelie to take after Rod or Eddy, they wanted him to learn to play more balanced. If you read alot of things about Lelie it says that Denver took the chance on him. (the chance) mean that people didnt think he will make it as a NFL WR. He is doing good right now. When we drafted Lelie Rod was 30, Our front office thought he was going to retire soon. Eddy was 32. So our Wr core was getting pretty old. 2001 wasthe year Eddie Kennison abandon us, so we needed another WR. 2002 we drafted Lelie , This is what an article said about us drafting him.

          Most likely to improve his team - Ashley Lelie, WR, Hawaii - The Broncos receiving core looks like a bad episode of ER, so the addition of Lelie will give Brian Griese, who struggled last season, a much needed third option. Lelie bulked up to push the scales at around 200lbs and still pushes 4.3 in the 40-yard dash. He's a smart kid too, which bodes well for a rookie trying to understand Mike Shanahan's offense jargon. Look for Lelie to put Denver back on track and in hOakland's face next season.

          Lelie help us gain a Deep threat, When he was 3rd string for us. Some people commented that he is the best 3rd in the Shannahan Era.

          like this article

          Yet the numbers beg otherwise. Lelie, who caught 35 passes for 525 yards and two touchdowns, was arguably te most productive No. 3 receiver for the Broncos since Mike Shanahan became head coach in 1995. Statistically, only Ed McCaffrey, who caught 39 passes for 477 yards and two touchdowns in '95, compares.



          Lelie was drafted in a bad draft class.

          2002 Wr draft class high lighted ones are Wrs who actually contributed or produced for their teams. Busts or out the league are bold

          13. Donte Stallworth
          19. Ashley Lelie
          20. Javon Walker
          33. Jabar Gaffney
          36. Josh Reed
          46. Tim Carter

          47.Andre' Davis
          48. Reche Caldwell
          62. Antwaan Randle El 49ers
          63. Antonio Bryant redskins
          64.Deion Branch
          86. Marquise Walker
          87. Cliff Russell
          95. Eric Crouch
          123. Ron Johnson
          142. Terry Charles
          149. Jason McAddley
          151. Jake Schifino
          162. Freddie Milons
          170. Sam Simmons
          184. Kahlil Hill
          202. Lee Mays
          203. Jamin Elliott
          206. Javin Hunter
          208. Deveren Johnson
          217. Michael Coleman
          222. Kendall Newson
          225. Darrell Hill
          226. Daryl Jones
          235. Ronald Curry
          249. Rodney Wright
          253. David Givens
          254. Aaron Lockett

          24!! of them didn't Do squat for their team. 31 total of Wrs drafted only 7 Produced or blew up with their team. 18 straight Wrs of the draft didn't do anything. But most them where late rounds picks which don't matter.

          Just my 2 cents

          Comment


          • #6
            At the time, we needed a deep threat to back up the saftey's and open up our run.

            It's just that simple.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by P-NUT33
              We drafted Lelie to take after Rod or Eddy, they wanted him to learn to play more balanced. If you read alot of things about Lelie it says that Denver took the chance on him. (the chance) mean that people didnt think he will make it as a NFL WR. He is doing good right now. When we drafted Lelie Rod was 30, Our front office thought he was going to retire soon. Eddy was 32. So our Wr core was getting pretty old. 2001 wasthe year Eddie Kennison abandon us, so we needed another WR. 2002 we drafted Lelie , This is what an article said about us drafting him.

              Most likely to improve his team - Ashley Lelie, WR, Hawaii - The Broncos receiving core looks like a bad episode of ER, so the addition of Lelie will give Brian Griese, who struggled last season, a much needed third option. Lelie bulked up to push the scales at around 200lbs and still pushes 4.3 in the 40-yard dash. He's a smart kid too, which bodes well for a rookie trying to understand Mike Shanahan's offense jargon. Look for Lelie to put Denver back on track and in hOakland's face next season.

              Lelie help us gain a Deep threat, When he was 3rd string for us. Some people commented that he is the best 3rd in the Shannahan Era.

              like this article

              Yet the numbers beg otherwise. Lelie, who caught 35 passes for 525 yards and two touchdowns, was arguably te most productive No. 3 receiver for the Broncos since Mike Shanahan became head coach in 1995. Statistically, only Ed McCaffrey, who caught 39 passes for 477 yards and two touchdowns in '95, compares.



              Lelie was drafted in a bad draft class.

              2002 Wr draft class high lighted ones are Wrs who actually contributed or produced for their teams. Busts or out the league are bold

              13. Donte Stallworth
              19. Ashley Lelie
              20. Javon Walker
              33. Jabar Gaffney
              36. Josh Reed
              46. Tim Carter

              47.Andre' Davis
              48. Reche Caldwell
              62. Antwaan Randle El 49ers
              63. Antonio Bryant redskins
              64.Deion Branch
              86. Marquise Walker
              87. Cliff Russell
              95. Eric Crouch
              123. Ron Johnson
              142. Terry Charles
              149. Jason McAddley
              151. Jake Schifino
              162. Freddie Milons
              170. Sam Simmons
              184. Kahlil Hill
              202. Lee Mays
              203. Jamin Elliott
              206. Javin Hunter
              208. Deveren Johnson
              217. Michael Coleman
              222. Kendall Newson
              225. Darrell Hill
              226. Daryl Jones
              235. Ronald Curry
              249. Rodney Wright
              253. David Givens
              254. Aaron Lockett

              24!! of them didn't Do squat for their team. 31 total of Wrs drafted only 7 Produced or blew up with their team. 18 straight Wrs of the draft didn't do anything. But most them where late rounds picks which don't matter.

              Just my 2 cents


              nice post. seeing that list of other recievers pretty much counters the 'lelie is a bust' claim, imo.
              "Philosophers have hitherto merely interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it."--Karl Marx


              "And I tell you this, that you must give an account on judgement day of every idle word you speak. The words you say now reflect your fate then; either you will be justified by them or you will be condemned."--Jesus Christ




              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by P-NUT33
                We drafted Lelie to take after Rod or Eddy, they wanted him to learn to play more balanced. If you read alot of things about Lelie it says that Denver took the chance on him. (the chance) mean that people didnt think he will make it as a NFL WR. He is doing good right now. When we drafted Lelie Rod was 30, Our front office thought he was going to retire soon. Eddy was 32. So our Wr core was getting pretty old. 2001 wasthe year Eddie Kennison abandon us, so we needed another WR. 2002 we drafted Lelie , This is what an article said about us drafting him.

                Most likely to improve his team - Ashley Lelie, WR, Hawaii - The Broncos receiving core looks like a bad episode of ER, so the addition of Lelie will give Brian Griese, who struggled last season, a much needed third option. Lelie bulked up to push the scales at around 200lbs and still pushes 4.3 in the 40-yard dash. He's a smart kid too, which bodes well for a rookie trying to understand Mike Shanahan's offense jargon. Look for Lelie to put Denver back on track and in hOakland's face next season.

                Lelie help us gain a Deep thr2. Javon Walker eat, When he was 3rd string for us. Some people commented that he is the best 3rd in the Shannahan Era.

                like this article

                Yet the numbers beg otherwise. Lelie, who caught 35 passes for 525 yards and two touchdowns, was arguably te most productive No. 3 receiver for the Broncos since Mike Shanahan became head coach in 1995. Statistically, only Ed McCaffrey, who caught 39 passes for 477 yards and two touchdowns in '95, compares.



                Lelie was drafted in a bad draft class.

                2002 Wr draft class high lighted ones are Wrs who actually contributed or produced for their teams. Busts or out the league are bold

                13. Donte Stallworth
                19. Ashley Lelie
                20. Javon Walker
                33. Jabar Gaffney
                36. Josh Reed
                46. Tim Carter

                47.Andre' Davis
                48. Reche Caldwell
                62. Antwaan Randle El 49ers
                63. Antonio Bryant redskins
                64.Deion Branch
                86. Marquise Walker
                87. Cliff Russell
                95. Eric Crouch
                123. Ron Johnson
                142. Terry Charles
                149. Jason McAddley
                151. Jake Schifino
                162. Freddie Milons
                170. Sam Simmons
                184. Kahlil Hill
                202. Lee Mays
                203. Jamin Elliott
                206. Javin Hunter
                208. Deveren Johnson
                217. Michael Coleman
                222. Kendall Newson
                225. Darrell Hill
                226. Daryl Jones
                235. Ronald Curry
                249. Rodney Wright
                253. David Givens
                254. Aaron Lockett

                24!! of them didn't Do squat for their team. 31 total of Wrs drafted only 7 Produced or blew up with their team. 18 straight Wrs of the draft didn't do anything. But most them where late rounds picks which don't matter.

                Just my 2 cents


                Lets see Who has been producing the best of the Wrs selected
                Ashley lelie
                Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
                168 3007 17.9 60 12 53

                Antonio Bryant
                Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
                210 3104 14.8 78 16 46

                Andre Davis (good 3rd string Wr red zome threat.)
                Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
                102 1602 15.7 99 14 25

                Deion Branch
                Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
                213 2744 12.9 66 14 34

                Javon Walker
                Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
                157 2444 15.6 79 22 37

                Donte Stallworth
                Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
                195 2791 14.3 76 23 46

                Antwan Randle El
                Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
                162 2012 12.4 63 7 31

                David Givens
                Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
                158 2214 14.0 57 12 32

                Ronald Curry(been injured most of his years. But pretty good when healthy)
                Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
                57 722 12.7 63 6 11


                Top 5 Wrs with most Catching AVG
                1. Ashley Lelie
                2. Andre Davis
                3. Javon Walker
                4. Donte Stallworth
                5. David Givens

                Top 5 Wr with most Yards
                1.Antonio Bryant (underrated i didn't even know how good he was until now.)
                2. Ashley Lelie
                3. Donte Stallworth
                4. Deion Branch
                5. Javon Walker

                Top 5 with most TDs
                1. Donte Stallworth
                2. Javon Walker
                3. Antonio Bryant
                4. Tied 2
                5. Tied 2

                Top 5 Deep threats
                1. Ashley Lelie
                2. Tied Donte stallworth and Antonio Bryant
                3. Javon Walker
                4. Deion Branch
                5. David Givens

                Top 5 Wrs with most Receptions
                1. Deion Branch
                2. Antonio Bryant
                3. Donte Stallworth
                4. Ashley lelie
                5. Antwan Randel El


                Overall Top 5 ( im using a caculator im adding all the points up. 1st is 5 points 2nd is 4 points etc..)

                1. Ashley Lelie
                2. Donte Stallworth
                3. Antonio Bryant
                4. Deion Branch
                5. Javon walker ( probably would have been #1 if he had played last year.)

                Comment


                • #9
                  That is proof Ashley Lelie is not a BUST!! He is better than almost all recievers in his draft class.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by P-NUT33
                    That is proof Ashley Lelie is not a BUST!! He is better than almost all recievers in his draft class.
                    Like in the QB thread stats aren't all that matter.

                    And I would have Branch and Walker over Lelie anyday.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      West Coast Offense != No Deep Ball


                      The idea behind it was to use short passes as an extention of the running game. When you get the other guy playing short it opens recievers deep. The deep ball is very much a part of the offense, but just isn't the focus.


                      I would not call Lelie a bust because he didn't live up to the hype. I would call him a bust if he couldn't play in the NFL. Just because he goes in the first round doesn't mean he can't be an average player.
                      Last edited by LoyalSoldier; 07-10-2006, 12:28 AM.
                      "Some people in this world make things happen, some people in this world know what happened, but most people wonder what happened."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wellllll

                        Originally posted by P-NUT33
                        That is proof Ashley Lelie is not a BUST!! He is better than almost all recievers in his draft class.

                        That's a good theory, but it assumes that that year's WR draft class was a good one. It's one tthing to be good in a good class oh let's say like Qbs in 83... or you can be good in a bad class WRs from this year.
                        "What I can promise is that...I’m going to play like my hair’s on fire. I’ve found that when you play that way, making plays just happens naturally.”

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by xX-Bronco-Xx
                          Like in the QB thread stats aren't all that matter.

                          And I would have Branch and Walker over Lelie anyday.
                          Its true stats don't matter, But Ashley is probably the best deep threat after Randy. Ashley get us in postion for the score, Probably every long catch he had this season he got us in postion to get a FG or TD. He also kept the saftey back because of his speed and ablity to catch over the shoulder like its nothing. Which opens up the running game.
                          Walker im not sold on him yet, because Brett Farve and the packers really love passing. That is the year Brett Farve had one of the best years of his career. You can tell they passed more, because Ahman Green Carries went from 355-1883 to 259-1163. Which is a 720 yard drop off!!!!! Brett's pass attempts went from 471-3361 to 540-4088 which is a 727 yard gain!! Soo 720 of ahman's yard pretty much went to brett 's passing yards.
                          But back to ashley I wish he wouldn't be such an ass and come to camp and compete for #1 or #2 and wait till Rod retires and Show the teams that said he cant be a #1 that he is worthy enough to be one.
                          Don't get me wrong i still think Javon will do good in our system. But im not completely sold on him. Donald drvier only started 11 games that year. Donald is probably one of the most underrated WR's in the league.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Champ>NFL
                            That makes no sense at ALL! Hes a little skiny piece of crap. I thought the west coast was based on YAC like T.O and ROD Produce. Maybe shanny just messed up draft day picking him. I thinki if Lelie played for the Pats he would become Toms go to guy. Even if he Played for the Lions this year. Martz would make him a probowler.



                            Who did Jerry Rice have stretching the field for him in sf?
                            same concept IMO.


                            :salute:

                            sig by Broncofancam may he REST IN PEACE



                            Thanks for the sig VULCAN
                            R.I.P. Darrent :salute:R.I.P. Damien

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I just think that if you look at ROd he catches short passes and yturns into YAC! Lelie catches and falls down.
                              -Bronco in UT


                              While I both agree and disagree with many posts in this thread I have to lean towards champ on this one. Jay really needs to learn how to manage the game better, and also to learn that you don't have to go for the big play EVERY time on every drive. There is something to be said to check the ball down and live to fight another day. -Great Post Cut the Excuses out please. sigh...

                              Helll of a post

                              Comment

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