If our offense is west coast playbook based why did we draft Ashley?

[Lorcust]

Now people can stop crying about Lelie not "producing" enough here in Denver when they've already given into the fact that he's not an ideal guy for the system here in Denver. Go figure.

Man, I'm just sick of his logic now. He wants a chance to compete for the number 1 spot. Shanahan publically calls him out to give him a chance to do what he wants. He doesn't show up. I hope he doesn't come up with some crap like, "Well, I was going to show up at mini-camp, but you were bowling that day. Sorry, how does training camp sound?" His agenda now is just to find a team with less receiver talent so it's easier to climb to the top, that's all it appears to be to me.

[Dream]

Now people can stop crying about Lelie not "producing" enough here in Denver when they've already given into the fact that he's not an ideal guy for the system here in Denver. Go figure.

[LoyalSoldier]

NO one on the forum really knows for sure if ashley is in the correct position for those passes or if Jake is miss throwing them. Only those in with the coaches durning film sessions and have acess to what is being called to Jake really know for sure.

I do think Lelie has a large part in that. You can say Jake has trouble hitting recievers in stride, but once in a while Lelie is going to be hit close enough. Rod has been hit in less than in stride, but still manages to get free.

[cinnamunmun]

As has been argued adnauseum in the past.

NO one on the forum really knows for sure if ashley is in the correct position for those passes or if Jake is miss throwing them. Only those in with the coaches durning film sessions and have acess to what is being called to Jake really know for sure.

That been said, logically I would say it is a combination of the two, but do to recent developments (Walker and Marshall) and the fact that rarely did Rod or Putz have to wait for a ball from Jake, it was ashley being out of position, running a bad route, not being able to clear the CB @ the LOS, or many other reasons.

Even in their good year together 2004 his YAC sucked. Perhaps it was the TD passes caught in the endzone that brought the YAC average down. Perhaps it was the designed plays to the sidelines.

But the truth of the matter is and has been since the end of last season Mikey has been actively seeking WR help first with the brief and unsuccessful affair with TO and finally on draft day with Walker in a trade and Marshall in the draft.

Now some will argue that the same can be said about Jake, Mikey actively tried to get a couple of Back up QB's (there were a few and frankly none of them were gonna take the #1 spot from Jake) in town mostly cause he was unsure of BVP as his #2, and ultimately DAFTED cutler for 2008 or after as he was "to good prospect to pass up".

Now for some reason they decided to let ashley try the over the middle stuff last year late in the year. Perhaps to see if he could make these catches and what he could d o with them once caught.

ashley has not shown a great ability to get cleanly off the LOS in the past, and has had to run crossing routes to wipe the defender off or use his long stride speed to blow by them. He seems to have longer stride speed, but not that ultra fast burst to get up to speed instantly like some players. He has as far as I can see not shown the ability to catch to ball and get back to speed before the DB;s get him. Unless he is hit on stride perfectly he is not going to make much YAC.

Whether or not it was Ashley's fault, which it might be, I don't know, I just wanted to state that Ashley just isn't a YAC guy. Especially if he gets hit.

[JRWIZ]

When he has to stretch out and make circus catches sure.

When he was catching short passes late last season Lelie seemed better at YAC than before.

Besides, he is a speed WR, they usually aren't known to break as many tackles as a possesion guy like Eddie Mac, Boldin, Fitz, or Wayne.

As has been argued adnauseum in the past.

NO one on the forum really knows for sure if ashley is in the correct position for those passes or if Jake is miss throwing them. Only those in with the coaches durning film sessions and have acess to what is being called to Jake really know for sure.

That been said, logically I would say it is a combination of the two, but do to recent developments (Walker and Marshall) and the fact that rarely did Rod or Putz have to wait for a ball from Jake, it was ashley being out of position, running a bad route, not being able to clear the CB @ the LOS, or many other reasons.

Even in their good year together 2004 his YAC sucked. Perhaps it was the TD passes caught in the endzone that brought the YAC average down. Perhaps it was the designed plays to the sidelines.

But the truth of the matter is and has been since the end of last season Mikey has been actively seeking WR help first with the brief and unsuccessful affair with TO and finally on draft day with Walker in a trade and Marshall in the draft.

Now some will argue that the same can be said about Jake, Mikey actively tried to get a couple of Back up QB's (there were a few and frankly none of them were gonna take the #1 spot from Jake) in town mostly cause he was unsure of BVP as his #2, and ultimately DAFTED cutler for 2008 or after as he was "to good prospect to pass up".

Now for some reason they decided to let ashley try the over the middle stuff last year late in the year. Perhaps to see if he could make these catches and what he could d o with them once caught.

ashley has not shown a great ability to get cleanly off the LOS in the past, and has had to run crossing routes to wipe the defender off or use his long stride speed to blow by them. He seems to have longer stride speed, but not that ultra fast burst to get up to speed instantly like some players. He has as far as I can see not shown the ability to catch to ball and get back to speed before the DB;s get him. Unless he is hit on stride perfectly he is not going to make much YAC.

[JRWIZ]

That all been said he was not the answer for our style of play.

Mikey had coveted a speed WR and got one that was very inconsistent.

The WCO does not rely on a deep threats. Merely WRs,TEs, RBs that can catch and RUN. YAC. Plain and simple. Just a long hand off, that is the easiest way to describe it. Once SFO had Steve young with a longer arm than Montana they modified the WCO to spread the field a bit more.

Mikey's run first also did not have a deep threat built into it, but once he had a deep threat he tried to change it around and gain QB time by doing roll outs and shotgun sets. Both of which limit the ability to RUN first.

Our line is not designed to give any QB lots of time to pick and choice through 12 or more looks like both PIT, KC or Indy's are. They just have big oafish Linemen that can block both for passing as well as running the ball.

[cinnamunmun]

I just think that if you look at ROd he catches short passes and yturns into YAC! Lelie catches and falls down.

When he has to stretch out and make circus catches sure.

When he was catching short passes late last season Lelie seemed better at YAC than before.

Besides, he is a speed WR, they usually aren't known to break as many tackles as a possesion guy like Eddie Mac, Boldin, Fitz, or Wayne.

[Champ>NFL]

I just think that if you look at ROd he catches short passes and yturns into YAC! Lelie catches and falls down.

[bronco bible]

That makes no sense at ALL! Hes a little skiny piece of crap. I thought the west coast was based on YAC like T.O and ROD Produce. Maybe shanny just messed up draft day picking him. I thinki if Lelie played for the Pats he would become Toms go to guy. Even if he Played for the Lions this year. Martz would make him a probowler.

Who did Jerry Rice have stretching the field for him in sf?
same concept IMO.

[P-NUT33]

Like in the QB thread stats aren't all that matter.

And I would have Branch and Walker over Lelie anyday.

Its true stats don't matter, But Ashley is probably the best deep threat after Randy. Ashley get us in postion for the score, Probably every long catch he had this season he got us in postion to get a FG or TD. He also kept the saftey back because of his speed and ablity to catch over the shoulder like its nothing. Which opens up the running game.
Walker im not sold on him yet, because Brett Farve and the packers really love passing. That is the year Brett Farve had one of the best years of his career. You can tell they passed more, because Ahman Green Carries went from 355-1883 to 259-1163. Which is a 720 yard drop off!!!!! Brett's pass attempts went from 471-3361 to 540-4088 which is a 727 yard gain!! Soo 720 of ahman's yard pretty much went to brett 's passing yards.
But back to ashley I wish he wouldn't be such an ass and come to camp and compete for #1 or #2 and wait till Rod retires and Show the teams that said he cant be a #1 that he is worthy enough to be one.
Don't get me wrong i still think Javon will do good in our system. But im not completely sold on him. Donald drvier only started 11 games that year. Donald is probably one of the most underrated WR's in the league.

[DiehardinAlaska]

Wellllll

That is proof Ashley Lelie is not a BUST!! He is better than almost all recievers in his draft class.

That's a good theory, but it assumes that that year's WR draft class was a good one. It's one tthing to be good in a good class oh let's say like Qbs in 83... or you can be good in a bad class WRs from this year.

[LoyalSoldier]

West Coast Offense != No Deep Ball


The idea behind it was to use short passes as an extention of the running game. When you get the other guy playing short it opens recievers deep. The deep ball is very much a part of the offense, but just isn't the focus.


I would not call Lelie a bust because he didn't live up to the hype. I would call him a bust if he couldn't play in the NFL. Just because he goes in the first round doesn't mean he can't be an average player.

[xX-Bronco-Xx]

That is proof Ashley Lelie is not a BUST!! He is better than almost all recievers in his draft class.

Like in the QB thread stats aren't all that matter.

And I would have Branch and Walker over Lelie anyday.

[P-NUT33]

That is proof Ashley Lelie is not a BUST!! He is better than almost all recievers in his draft class.

[P-NUT33]

We drafted Lelie to take after Rod or Eddy, they wanted him to learn to play more balanced. If you read alot of things about Lelie it says that Denver took the chance on him. (the chance) mean that people didnt think he will make it as a NFL WR. He is doing good right now. When we drafted Lelie Rod was 30, Our front office thought he was going to retire soon. Eddy was 32. So our Wr core was getting pretty old. 2001 wasthe year Eddie Kennison abandon us, so we needed another WR. 2002 we drafted Lelie , This is what an article said about us drafting him.

Most likely to improve his team - Ashley Lelie, WR, Hawaii - The Broncos receiving core looks like a bad episode of ER, so the addition of Lelie will give Brian Griese, who struggled last season, a much needed third option. Lelie bulked up to push the scales at around 200lbs and still pushes 4.3 in the 40-yard dash. He's a smart kid too, which bodes well for a rookie trying to understand Mike Shanahan's offense jargon. Look for Lelie to put Denver back on track and in hOakland's face next season.

Lelie help us gain a Deep thr2. Javon Walker eat, When he was 3rd string for us. Some people commented that he is the best 3rd in the Shannahan Era.

like this article

Yet the numbers beg otherwise. Lelie, who caught 35 passes for 525 yards and two touchdowns, was arguably te most productive No. 3 receiver for the Broncos since Mike Shanahan became head coach in 1995. Statistically, only Ed McCaffrey, who caught 39 passes for 477 yards and two touchdowns in '95, compares.


Lelie was drafted in a bad draft class.

2002 Wr draft class high lighted ones are Wrs who actually contributed or produced for their teams. Busts or out the league are bold

13. Donte Stallworth
19. Ashley Lelie
20. Javon Walker
33. Jabar Gaffney
36. Josh Reed
46. Tim Carter
47.Andre' Davis
48. Reche Caldwell
62. Antwaan Randle El 49ers
63. Antonio Bryant redskins
64.Deion Branch
86. Marquise Walker
87. Cliff Russell
95. Eric Crouch
123. Ron Johnson
142. Terry Charles
149. Jason McAddley
151. Jake Schifino
162. Freddie Milons
170. Sam Simmons
184. Kahlil Hill
202. Lee Mays
203. Jamin Elliott
206. Javin Hunter
208. Deveren Johnson
217. Michael Coleman
222. Kendall Newson
225. Darrell Hill
226. Daryl Jones
235. Ronald Curry
249. Rodney Wright
253. David Givens
254. Aaron Lockett

24!! of them didn't Do squat for their team. 31 total of Wrs drafted only 7 Produced or blew up with their team. 18 straight Wrs of the draft didn't do anything. But most them where late rounds picks which don't matter.

Just my 2 cents

Lets see Who has been producing the best of the Wrs selected
Ashley lelie
Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
168 3007 17.9 60 12 53

Antonio Bryant
Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
210 3104 14.8 78 16 46

Andre Davis (good 3rd string Wr red zome threat.)
Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
102 1602 15.7 99 14 25

Deion Branch
Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
213 2744 12.9 66 14 34

Javon Walker
Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
157 2444 15.6 79 22 37

Donte Stallworth
Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
195 2791 14.3 76 23 46

Antwan Randle El
Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
162 2012 12.4 63 7 31

David Givens
Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
158 2214 14.0 57 12 32

Ronald Curry(been injured most of his years. But pretty good when healthy)
Rec Yards Avg Lg Td 20+
57 722 12.7 63 6 11


Top 5 Wrs with most Catching AVG
1. Ashley Lelie
2. Andre Davis
3. Javon Walker
4. Donte Stallworth
5. David Givens

Top 5 Wr with most Yards
1.Antonio Bryant (underrated i didn't even know how good he was until now.)
2. Ashley Lelie
3. Donte Stallworth
4. Deion Branch
5. Javon Walker

Top 5 with most TDs
1. Donte Stallworth
2. Javon Walker
3. Antonio Bryant
4. Tied 2
5. Tied 2

Top 5 Deep threats
1. Ashley Lelie
2. Tied Donte stallworth and Antonio Bryant
3. Javon Walker
4. Deion Branch
5. David Givens

Top 5 Wrs with most Receptions
1. Deion Branch
2. Antonio Bryant
3. Donte Stallworth
4. Ashley lelie
5. Antwan Randel El


Overall Top 5 ( im using a caculator im adding all the points up. 1st is 5 points 2nd is 4 points etc..)

1. Ashley Lelie
2. Donte Stallworth
3. Antonio Bryant
4. Deion Branch
5. Javon walker ( probably would have been #1 if he had played last year.)