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  • #46
    Nobody had less to work with than Elway. Montana had a ton of help. You put Elway on those 49er teams he wins, you put Montana on those bronco teams in the late 80's, he doesnt even take them to the playoffs. Thats not being bias cause im a bronco fan, thats common sense.
    "Failing to Prepare is Preparing to Fail."
    Elway over Montana any day of the week.

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    • #47
      Yup, it is.

      This is how I always say it for the 80's:

      Montana went to the superbowl and won with the best of the best while Elway went to the superbowl and lost to the best of the best. Quite simply, one man cannot win one of the biggest games on earth.

      Really, Montana wasn't really THAT great of a quarterback, I think his superbowl wins really overshadow his actual talent and physique (the guy was tiny for a quarterback). He's sorta like that Jets quarterback (name escapes me) who's all "great" cause of that one saying and winning the game with two busted legs; that guy was crap but hardly does anyone say it (although he helped elevate the game of football to what it is today).

      I believe Marino and Elway are tied. Both were awesome quarterbacks, could throw long bombs and hit their receievers on the dime (especially Elway, which was one of his main attributes). The difference between the two? One has major stats (Marino) while Elway has the two rings, numerous championship/superbowl visits, and loads of wins. Just matters on your opinion (mine is both, they were both awesome quarterbacks playing for shoddy teams). And I always feel bad for Marino cause he just never got that ring.


      "When Kepler found his long-cherished belief did not agree with the most precise observation, he accepted the uncomfortable fact. He preferred the hard truth to his dearest illusions; that is the heart of science."
      - Carl Sagan

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      • #48
        Originally posted by jmo724
        Nobody had less to work with than Elway. Montana had a ton of help. You put Elway on those 49er teams he wins, you put Montana on those bronco teams in the late 80's, he doesnt even take them to the playoffs. Thats not being bias cause im a bronco fan, thats common sense.
        I have heard this argument for years, about if a QB was on another team, he would have done better.Not necessarily so.Certain QB,s work in certain systems with certain coaches, and they aren,t interchangeable with better or other QBs.Team chemistry, becomes the intangible.In Super Bowl XXXVI, the powerful Rams were a lock against the lucky, no names from New England.Here,s where chemistry comes in.The Patriots team actually felt they could win that game, with coaching, and confidence in a 2nd year QB.If, Bledsoe would have been the QB that year, I would bet the farm, it wouldn,t have happened.He did not fit the system, no matter how good everybody thought he was.Bledsoe did not play within the system designed by the coach.The system at New England requires a QB who can play ground control, and use the deep routes, after he suckers the safeties or corners in.Old time football using short passes instead of a running game.Bledsoe continued to impatiently, fight the system to continuosly throw deep routes,without the receivers who can consistently make those plays.Just one example of a Pro Bowl QB failing, where a 2nd year QB succeeds.I have others, but I don,t want to bore you guys.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by wolfepack
          I agree with you realbronco, dinwiddie should be a bronco for life, that guy is amazing
          he's gotta great name too.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Aardwolf
            Not to be a nitpicker but this is an illogical statement. Mathematically, it doesn't add up.

            If you name FOUR guys, how can the lowest one be THIRD???

            Your list revised to be logical...

            1)Elway

            2)Montana

            2)Marino

            4)Favre


            BTW, I don't agree.
            this "broncos fan" should go elsewhere!!

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            • #51
              This was an easy one.
              Dan Marino is the best QB to ever play but of course John Elway is going to win this poll on a Broncos message board.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Derock
                This was an easy one.
                Dan Marino is the best QB to ever play

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                • #53
                  although

                  I don't think Championship rings make the decision on who's the best QB... I don't think Marino was the best. He certainly can be mentioned in the topic of 'greatest QBs to ever play' though.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by tahuya man
                    You ask this question in Baltimore, you get John Unitas. You ask this question Pittsburg, you get Bradshaw. Ask it in Denver you get Elway. Ask it in SF, Dallas, Green Bay or Miami and you could get more than one QB named for those Teams.
                    That is true. I am in none of those mentioned cities so that makes my opinion completely unbiased and I say Dan Marino is the best QB in the history of the game. My decision is based entirely upon passing skills.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Derock
                      That is true. I am in none of those mentioned cities so that makes my opinion completely unbiased and I say Dan Marino is the best QB in the history of the game. My decision is based entirely upon passing skills.
                      Since when does pure passing skill make a great QB though, a QB needs to be a skilled passer, have a strong arm, accuracy, be able to scramble/mobility, be able to read defenses and change plays at the line of scrimmage, be a true leader, etc. etc.

                      I agree with Ravage - he may be grouped in the category as one of the best to ever play the game - but I wouldnt say he was the best ever - he lacked mobility, IMHO - although I dont believe championships make a great player - they make a great team - you cant hold an individual to how many championships they won when they are playing a team sport - I think Dan Marino was one of the best QB's to never win a championship and I find it a shame - I think all great althletes deserve a ring - but he will make the HOF, no doubt -

                      As far as the older QB's go, I cant say, Im not as old as tahuna can so I cant remember that far back, not to mention I have this inherited memory loss thing goin on and I really only have been following football, closely, for like 10 years, so IMO, on the QB's I have seen, John is still the best - and I think what puts him above Marino and Montana (the only two that come close in that era) is his ability to scramble and his physical strength - oh yeah and the fact they he was gonna be a Yankee doesnt hurt either - hehehehe

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                      • #56
                        The best QB

                        They are all good. But think in this vein, if John had a real coach all those years that was not jealous of who got the press, and who was control freak (read that Reeves). If he would have had a team around him with a bit more talent, he would own all of the other records he does not currently own.

                        Face it Reeves tied his hands on what was allowed and what wasn't. Only when Shanahan was around were his talents really used. Reeves and John did not like each other, and when Mike was either around to act as a buffer or call the shots is when John was his best.

                        If Reeves would have tried to play to his strong suit throwing the ball, like they did in MIA. It would be no contest Montana would not have been in the mix. Bowlen was intimidated by Reeves until he finnally figured out who ran Shanahan out of town and almost John. Only then did it become clear Reeves had to go.

                        John carried this team to 3 of the 5 superbowls on his OWN back, if they would have had some defense (both Simms and Williams from Washington looked like ALL WORLD QB's in those games, didn't play all that well before or after those two games) to back up his talent, they would have been competitive. As it was they got blown out 55-7 49-10 I think and don't remember the other score, but it was not close.

                        John had bad days during those superbowls, but mostly because the defense was lousy he was playing catch up. Actually had lead in one game and then the defense collapsed.

                        Until 1997-1999 how many ALL PROs did they have on the line? How about RB or for that matter, on the team itself?

                        Trying to compare the three amigos to the receivers that Marino and Montana had, IS A JOKE.

                        Trade the Duke with the QB's on either of those teams and see how many of the games Marino and Montana would have won.

                        No comparsion if you look at it that, ELWAY!
                        Last edited by Jrhampton; 04-02-2004, 10:32 AM.

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                        • #57
                          Re: although

                          Originally posted by Ravage!!!
                          I don't think Championship rings make the decision on who's the best QB... I don't think Marino was the best. He certainly can be mentioned in the topic of 'greatest QBs to ever play' though.
                          Superbowl rings are won by TEAMS! Elway got his team there five times but only the last two did he have a team. Can anyone say that Dans Fouts was a sorry qb just because he didnt win a ring? Is Doug Williams a Superstar just because he did? Does that mean that Doug was soo much greater than Dan Marino just because he won one? Doug was gone two years later and Dan was still setting records but just because he didnt get one that makes Doug ten times better than him? COME ON PEOPLE!
                          Im right behind you Rav!
                          ~RSth Lncus [email protected] mO Po*

                          Its what a man knows about himself inside that makes him afraid!


                          UNC Tarheels!!!!

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                          • #58
                            im die hard bronco fan but i always said Montana was the best (best I ever seen anyway)

                            Elway is my favorite player of all time

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by jbones733
                              im die hard bronco fan but i always said Montana was the best (best I ever seen anyway)

                              Elway is my favorite player of all time
                              Fouts #1, John #2
                              ~RSth Lncus [email protected] mO Po*

                              Its what a man knows about himself inside that makes him afraid!


                              UNC Tarheels!!!!

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