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Charlie Adams over Darius Watts?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by SM19
    The Mastermind is holding onto him until he can swing a three-team deal that sends Adams to the CFL and gets us the Redskins' first-round pick.
    HAHAA! Nice.

    Think about it. Watts has never been part of special teams. Adams has. Neither is going to be in on offensive plays this year due to the good play of Kircus. I think Watts was more expendable because of that reason alone. If Watts had offered equal value as Adams on special teams things would have been different.

    Charles Rodgers was released as well. Maybe Denver will try and pick him up. Maybe Shannahan has something up his sleeve. Rodgers would probably have to fire his crappy agent Kevin Poston though. That guy demands a lot.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by BroncosFan123
      half of you guys just need to let our coaches do there thing !
      I have total trust in mike after all he did lead us to a 13 win season.I think adams was kept because of his special teams play , watts has never proven his self.
      Thakn you. Again guys, Shanahan usually knows what he was doing, so let's see how it all turns out and what Shanahan will do next.

      If it turns out better, then everything is all good. If it stays the same, no loss. If it get's worse, well, Watts didn't really contribute last year enough to be considered a huge loss. 2 catches. Let's just see what Shanahan has in store for us.

      All we can do now is wish Darius a warm good bye for a nice rookie season and hope, for his sake, that he can correct "the claw."
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      • #18
        hard to draft go to #1

        yes mike does have his problems drafting, but i was watching nfl network today and they where talking about how many 1st round wideouts are busts. It seems we are not the only one with this problem!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by BroncosFan123
          half of you guys just need to let our coaches do there thing !
          I have total trust in mike after all he did lead us to a 13 win season.I think adams was kept because of his special teams play , watts has never proven his self.

          Yet Adams and Devoe consistently light up the scoreboard week after week right?
          I think Kircus' value was actually similar to Watts (albeit a quite a bit cheaper.) He had a big preseason, outside of that, he's never proven a thing either. I'm still upset we got rid of Watts and will continue to be so unless he pulls a Clarett and totally makes himself look like a waste. Seeing as how that won't happen my money is he lands somewhere else and lands big provided he gets a fair shot there.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by silkamilkamonic
            Yep. And you know the sad thing about Javon walker and Ashley Lelie?

            Shanahan passed on Walker to draft Lelie, only to have Walker being the one that breaks out, Lelie being the flake and losing him for a 3rd rounder, and having to give up a second rounder for Walker.

            Shanahan don't know jack about WR's!

            And you know whats even worse?


            We passed up Ed Reed to draft Lelie



            we could have Ed Reed AND Javon Walker on this team instead of just Walker...
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            • #21
              Originally posted by silkamilkamonic
              Think about this for a second.

              Shanahan has been coach in Denver since when, 1995? The only impact WR he has ever drafted is Ashley Lelie, and he ended up spending a first round pick, only to lose him to a third.
              Well, that was really Lelie's fault for holding out. Otherwise, he'd still be a key contributing member of this year's receiving corps.

              I'm not going to question Shanahan on winning, building a team, or x's and o's, but it is a cause for concern when the contineous weak spot in the offense is the WR position, something Shanahan has NEVER been good at evaluating.

              I don't care what anyone says, that's a cause for concern.
              None of us knows exactly how much evaluating Shanny does or how much he relies on his scouts or other sources of information. But whatever the process is, the Broncos have definitely had bad luck with drafting receivers. Then again, the same was true of cornerbacks until last year.

              Regardless, I still believe that wide receiver is the hardest position to evaluate when it comes to the draft. High draft picks stink it up all the time. And that's actually the main reason I wish we'd never use a first rounder on a receiver.

              As for Watts, I'm really dreading the possibility of hearing about how successful he becomes in the next year or two playing for somebody else... hopefully not a rival.
              "You can't take the sky from me..."
              ------
              "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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              • #22
                Originally posted by stnzed
                Nobody can convince me that cutting Watts was a good idea.....Adams and Devoe....Send em both packing

                How is the positon any better than it was 12 months ago?

                Walker maybe better than Lelie....But at least we know Lelie was healthy going in to the season.

                All the other peices stay the same...But a year older.....

                I have faith in Smith and that's it!
                Okay, first of all the position is SIGNIFICANTLY better than last year. Here's how it goes:

                Rod Smith - this guy can play forever. He is the master at finding his position on the field, turning it upfield for more yards and avoiding taking a bad hit so his body stays fresh. I'd say just as strong as last year, only one more year of experience.

                Javon Walker - are you not reading anything that has been printed about this guy??? Did you not see the games??? This guy is a monster, he's going to tear it up. Yeah sure, he's coming back from ACL surgery, but all reports to date say he's made a full recovery. Lelie was going nowhere in Denver, Javon is turning heads. HUGE upgrade here.

                Brandon Marshall - freaky athletic ability. He didn't get to show it much during the preseason due to a minor PCL tear, but he was all the rage prior to that. When you compare this guy who is young with a huge upside to last year's #3 (Devoe) I think you'd have to give me this one as a definite upgrade.

                David Kircus - overachiever, preseason stud, makes the good catch, gets open. Does everything you need. He's just not that flashy but he gets the job done. True, he'll never be an Eddie Mac, but coming in at #4 this is quality depth (which was not here last year).

                Todd Devoe - Getting better every year. He's not as great an athlete as Watts, sure enough, but WR's aren't paid to be great all-around athletes. Their paid to catch balls which is something Devoe does, and Watts does not. Watts was non-existant last year, Devoe had some big catches. I don't know how you can say Watts is any better than Devoe comparing this past season. We're talking #5 here and still chuggin' (I think its good evidence that we've upgraded since last years #3 is now our #5).

                Charlie Adams - yeah, okay, don't have much to say here. I agree that the only reason he stayed over Watts was special teams. Still, since when does #6 WR actually get into the game if this is NOT the case.

                If you consider Scheffler being a threat (better than Putz) as well, as a whole this group is extremely strong. I know people are upset over D Watts but the fact is that he had his chance and never seemed to get over that hump. At least thats how I see it.
                The only place that success comes before work is in the dictionary. - Vince Lombardi

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Yoohoo1231
                  Yet Adams and Devoe consistently light up the scoreboard week after week right?
                  I think Kircus' value was actually similar to Watts (albeit a quite a bit cheaper.) He had a big preseason, outside of that, he's never proven a thing either. I'm still upset we got rid of Watts and will continue to be so unless he pulls a Clarett and totally makes himself look like a waste. Seeing as how that won't happen my money is he lands somewhere else and lands big provided he gets a fair shot there.
                  Watts dropped some big balls in '04, which put him in a position where HE had to PROVE to the coaches that if he was trusted again, that he would perform better. Obviously, he didn't do that.

                  The NFL is full of players that failed one place and succeeded some place else. I could provide a whole list, but lets just stick with Kircus' number, since it seems appropriate. Number 87, Ed Mccaffrey, struggled in NY and was released, before going to SF for a year or two with a minimal role, and coming to Denver to become one of the most beloved Broncos ever that wasn't named Elway.
                  The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt

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                  • #24
                    Let's just draft Jason Hill out of WSU next year...that will solve all our problems.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Skywalker
                      And you know whats even worse?


                      We passed up Ed Reed to draft Lelie



                      we could have Ed Reed AND Javon Walker on this team instead of just Walker...
                      Well, there are probably about 20 or so other teams also kicking themselves for not taking Reed. It's not like the Broncos are unique in that.

                      Hindsight is 20/20 and all that.
                      "You can't take the sky from me..."
                      ------
                      "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Humberg
                        Javon Walker - are you not reading anything that has been printed about this guy??? Did you not see the games??? This guy is a monster, he's going to tear it up. Yeah sure, he's coming back from ACL surgery, but all reports to date say he's made a full recovery. Lelie was going nowhere in Denver, Javon is turning heads. HUGE upgrade here.
                        Maybe this will help him understand what Walker brings to the table.

                        Code:
                        2004 Receiving Leaders									
                        RNK	               NAME	               REC	YDS	AVG	YPG	LNG	TD	FUM	LST
                        1	M. Muhammad WR, CAR	93	1405	15.1	87.8	51	16	2	0
                        2	Joe Horn WR,        NOR	94	1399	14.9	87.4	57	11	0	0
                        3	Javon Walker WR, GNB	89	1382	15.5	86.4	79	12	2	2
                        4	Torry Holt WR,       STL	94	1372	14.6	85.8	75	10	3	1
                        5	Isaac Bruce WR, STL	89	1292	14.5	80.8	56	6	5	4
                        6	Chad Johnson WR, CIN	95	1274	13.4	79.6	53	9	1	0
                        7	Tony Gonzalez TE, KAN	102	1258	12.3	78.6	32	7	0	0
                        8	Drew Bennett WR, TEN	80	1247	15.6	77.9	48	11	2	0
                        9	Reggie Wayne WR, IND	77	1210	15.7	75.6	71	12	0	0
                        10	Donald Driver WR, GNB	84	1208	14.4	75.5	50	9	1	1
                        11	Terrell Owens WR, PHI	77	1200	15.6	85.7	59	14	2	1
                        12	D. Jackson WR,      SEA	87	1199	13.8	74.9	56	7	2	1
                        13	M. Clayton WR,      TAM	80	1193	14.9	74.6	75	7	0	0
                        14	Jimmy Smith WR, JAC	74	1172	15.8	73.3	65	6	2	1
                        15	Derrick Mason WR, TEN	96	1168	12.2	73	37	7	0	0
                        16	Rod Smith WR,       DEN	79	1144	14.5	71.5	85	7	1	0
                        17	Andre Johnson WR, HOU	79	1142	14.5	71.4	54	6	1	1
                        18	M. Harrison WR,      IND	86	1113	12.9	69.6	59	15	1	1
                        19	E. Kennison WR, KAN	62	1086	17.5	77.6	70	8	1	1
                        20	Ashley Lelie WR, DEN	54	1084	20.1	67.8	58	7	0	0
                        The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Skywalker
                          And you know whats even worse?


                          We passed up Ed Reed to draft Lelie



                          we could have Ed Reed AND Javon Walker on this team instead of just Walker...
                          At least Lelie was a useful player for a period of time.

                          Terry Pierce hurts more to me. If you want to know which players we passed on...look here. Pierce was pick no. 51.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by tnedator
                            Maybe this will help him understand what Walker brings to the table.

                            Code:
                            2004 Receiving Leaders									
                            RNK	               NAME	               REC	YDS	AVG	YPG	LNG	TD	FUM	LST
                            1	M. Muhammad WR, CAR	93	1405	15.1	87.8	51	16	2	0
                            2	Joe Horn WR,        NOR	94	1399	14.9	87.4	57	11	0	0
                            3	Javon Walker WR, GNB	89	1382	15.5	86.4	79	12	2	2
                            4	Torry Holt WR,       STL	94	1372	14.6	85.8	75	10	3	1
                            5	Isaac Bruce WR, STL	89	1292	14.5	80.8	56	6	5	4
                            6	Chad Johnson WR, CIN	95	1274	13.4	79.6	53	9	1	0
                            7	Tony Gonzalez TE, KAN	102	1258	12.3	78.6	32	7	0	0
                            8	Drew Bennett WR, TEN	80	1247	15.6	77.9	48	11	2	0
                            9	Reggie Wayne WR, IND	77	1210	15.7	75.6	71	12	0	0
                            10	Donald Driver WR, GNB	84	1208	14.4	75.5	50	9	1	1
                            11	Terrell Owens WR, PHI	77	1200	15.6	85.7	59	14	2	1
                            12	D. Jackson WR,      SEA	87	1199	13.8	74.9	56	7	2	1
                            13	M. Clayton WR,      TAM	80	1193	14.9	74.6	75	7	0	0
                            14	Jimmy Smith WR, JAC	74	1172	15.8	73.3	65	6	2	1
                            15	Derrick Mason WR, TEN	96	1168	12.2	73	37	7	0	0
                            16	Rod Smith WR,       DEN	79	1144	14.5	71.5	85	7	1	0
                            17	Andre Johnson WR, HOU	79	1142	14.5	71.4	54	6	1	1
                            18	M. Harrison WR,      IND	86	1113	12.9	69.6	59	15	1	1
                            19	E. Kennison WR, KAN	62	1086	17.5	77.6	70	8	1	1
                            20	Ashley Lelie WR, DEN	54	1084	20.1	67.8	58	7	0	0

                            Thanks tnedator!!! I mean this guys a monster!!!! Look at where TO is! Javon is a full 7 above him! MONSTER!!!!
                            The only place that success comes before work is in the dictionary. - Vince Lombardi

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by tnedator
                              Maybe this will help him understand what Walker brings to the table.

                              Code:
                              2004 Receiving Leaders									
                              RNK	               NAME	               REC	YDS	AVG	YPG	LNG	TD	FUM	LST
                              1	M. Muhammad WR, CAR	93	1405	15.1	87.8	51	16	2	0
                              2	Joe Horn WR,        NOR	94	1399	14.9	87.4	57	11	0	0
                              3	Javon Walker WR, GNB	89	1382	15.5	86.4	79	12	2	2
                              4	Torry Holt WR,       STL	94	1372	14.6	85.8	75	10	3	1
                              5	Isaac Bruce WR, STL	89	1292	14.5	80.8	56	6	5	4
                              6	Chad Johnson WR, CIN	95	1274	13.4	79.6	53	9	1	0
                              7	Tony Gonzalez TE, KAN	102	1258	12.3	78.6	32	7	0	0
                              8	Drew Bennett WR, TEN	80	1247	15.6	77.9	48	11	2	0
                              9	Reggie Wayne WR, IND	77	1210	15.7	75.6	71	12	0	0
                              10	Donald Driver WR, GNB	84	1208	14.4	75.5	50	9	1	1
                              11	Terrell Owens WR, PHI	77	1200	15.6	85.7	59	14	2	1
                              12	D. Jackson WR,      SEA	87	1199	13.8	74.9	56	7	2	1
                              13	M. Clayton WR,      TAM	80	1193	14.9	74.6	75	7	0	0
                              14	Jimmy Smith WR, JAC	74	1172	15.8	73.3	65	6	2	1
                              15	Derrick Mason WR, TEN	96	1168	12.2	73	37	7	0	0
                              16	Rod Smith WR,       DEN	79	1144	14.5	71.5	85	7	1	0
                              17	Andre Johnson WR, HOU	79	1142	14.5	71.4	54	6	1	1
                              18	M. Harrison WR,      IND	86	1113	12.9	69.6	59	15	1	1
                              19	E. Kennison WR, KAN	62	1086	17.5	77.6	70	8	1	1
                              20	Ashley Lelie WR, DEN	54	1084	20.1	67.8	58	7	0	0

                              I'm as excited about Walker as any.....I'm just concerned about his knee..."Don't count your chickens..." kinda thing.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by stnzed
                                I'm as excited about Walker as any.....I'm just concerned about his knee..."Don't count your chickens..." kinda thing.
                                I agree. HOwever, I think we will be at least as deep at wide receiver this year as last, even if Marshall doesn't pan out and Walker's knee isn't healthy. However, we are going to have to get at least a few games, or more, into the season before we will know for sure.
                                The human body has two ends on it: one to create with and one to sit on. Sometimes people get their ends reversed. When this happens they need a kick in the seat of the pants. --- Theodore Roosevelt

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