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Charlie Adams over Darius Watts?

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  • underrated29
    replied
    Originally posted by stnzed
    You base this on what? Not on what Shanahan tells you?


    no my opinion


    watts dropped the ball, way to much. he may have speed but it does him no good to run without the football. as a reciever we were taught if you can touch it then you must catch it.

    marshall has caught the ball so far. he may not be as fast, but he can catch, plus he also has the size to sheild the ball, which somewhat makes up for the lack of speed

    Leave a comment:


  • cvnorton
    replied
    I personally think that the reason we went with Adams over Watts is because he is cheaper. Watts would be going into the 3rd year of his 2nd round draft pick contract and he would be costing us too much money for the role he would be asked to play for us. I do think we need to go out and get a special teams player ie KR/PR that would be an upgrade over Adams but all in all Watts was just going to cost us too much money.

    Leave a comment:


  • crazycombo
    replied
    Originally posted by Seamus22015
    Guys I really think this is going off on a tangent. I didn't really mean it to when I posted originally.

    I would like to say that I really like Devoe and Kircus. These guys aren't scrubs. I think in time they will prove to be good additions.

    My distain comes from cutting Watts. Special teams or not, I don't think Adams is more of an asset. Shannahan talked at length last year about putting your best 11 out on the field, and to a large extent, I agree with our starters. But those starters need to rest once in a while. When they are resting...who do I want to see on the field as the next best WR? Watts, Marshall, Kircus, and Devoe in this order.

    Watts may have struggled last year but there are a ton of players who have sophmore slumps and bounce back. I think he would have been good for us this year.

    Adams doesn't belong on this team in my opinion. Now I'm affraid that we have lost Watts for good.

    By the way, has anyone been to practice this year? Did you see Watts playing special teams at all? Was he used as a returner at all? How did he do?

    I think that watts slow develop is too much now. because, I don't think the broncos want adams anymore, specially not after trying to deal him to dallas. There is something there, because Parcel wanted him in dallas. Watts is not good for anything else and I am not going to forgive him the last three pases for TD that has gone thru his hand on the end zone. sorry, but I wanted him out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Seamus22015
    replied
    Guys I really think this is going off on a tangent. I didn't really mean it to when I posted originally.

    I would like to say that I really like Devoe and Kircus. These guys aren't scrubs. I think in time they will prove to be good additions.

    My distain comes from cutting Watts. Special teams or not, I don't think Adams is more of an asset. Shannahan talked at length last year about putting your best 11 out on the field, and to a large extent, I agree with our starters. But those starters need to rest once in a while. When they are resting...who do I want to see on the field as the next best WR? Watts, Marshall, Kircus, and Devoe in this order.

    Watts may have struggled last year but there are a ton of players who have sophmore slumps and bounce back. I think he would have been good for us this year.

    Adams doesn't belong on this team in my opinion. Now I'm affraid that we have lost Watts for good.

    By the way, has anyone been to practice this year? Did you see Watts playing special teams at all? Was he used as a returner at all? How did he do?

    Leave a comment:


  • crazycombo
    replied
    Originally posted by tnedator
    I am not justifying it. I simply stated my 'opinion' and that is that by the bye, we will be talking about how this is the best group of Broncos receivers (Overall, top three WR + TEs) in the last 20 years.

    I agree, production over hype. I have said similar things many times. That is why I am not trying to convince you or anyone else, but simply stating my opinion that this will turn out to be the best group of receivers (top 3 WR + TE combined) that we have had in 20 years.

    It is not a guarantee, because they haven't played real games yet, but that is how I think this group will turn out.

    Even though I have addressed in other posts what I think about this group, I will answer your question about 'why' I 'think' this. This is not me trying to convince anyone, this is simply me stating my opinion of what 'I think' will happen, there is NO way for me to prove it, because I would have to be able to see into the future to do that.

    Ok, I think Rod will provide at least as much production as Maccafrey did, and Walker will provide as much production as Rod did in his prime. I believe that either Marshall or Kircus will become a better 3rd wide receiver than we have had during that time frame, and while neither Scheffler nor Jackson will likely be as good as Sharpe this year (and probably will never be as good), I believe that having a legitimate 3rd WR will make up for any differences at the TE position.

    Anyway, that is basically it in a nutshell. I am not going to try and convince anyone, because it is impossible. Hence the reason I said we would need to evaluate it at the bye to see how this group of receivers shake out.
    Maybe sharpe was great, but we need more diversity. we now have three good receiver and a good rookie TE, that I think will be great.

    I rather have it more balance, than a good TE>

    Leave a comment:


  • tnedator
    replied
    Originally posted by silkamilkamonic
    How are you justifying this?

    Shannon Sharpe alone is better then our entire group of TE's at this point. You can throw in Byron Chamberlein and a younger Duane Carswell and it's not even comparable.

    Rod Smith in his prime is better then SMith now, and Walker. Throw in Ed McAffery, and you have one of the most consistent 1-2 WR punch in a good few years i the NFL.

    Forget about the Javon Walker hype. He has had a very good year and a half and he could be a grewat one for Denver. He could also bust, or tear his knee up again. I think it's quite clear that actual production in the NFL is better then hype, and that was something then Smith/McAffery have over Smith/Walker.

    I'm not saying your wrong or way off base, I'm just curious why you think this?
    I am not justifying it. I simply stated my 'opinion' and that is that by the bye, we will be talking about how this is the best group of Broncos receivers (Overall, top three WR + TEs) in the last 20 years.

    I agree, production over hype. I have said similar things many times. That is why I am not trying to convince you or anyone else, but simply stating my opinion that this will turn out to be the best group of receivers (top 3 WR + TE combined) that we have had in 20 years.

    It is not a guarantee, because they haven't played real games yet, but that is how I think this group will turn out.

    Even though I have addressed in other posts what I think about this group, I will answer your question about 'why' I 'think' this. This is not me trying to convince anyone, this is simply me stating my opinion of what 'I think' will happen, there is NO way for me to prove it, because I would have to be able to see into the future to do that.

    Ok, I think Rod will provide at least as much production as Maccafrey did, and Walker will provide as much production as Rod did in his prime. I believe that either Marshall or Kircus will become a better 3rd wide receiver than we have had during that time frame, and while neither Scheffler nor Jackson will likely be as good as Sharpe this year (and probably will never be as good), I believe that having a legitimate 3rd WR will make up for any differences at the TE position.

    Anyway, that is basically it in a nutshell. I am not going to try and convince anyone, because it is impossible. Hence the reason I said we would need to evaluate it at the bye to see how this group of receivers shake out.

    Leave a comment:


  • crazycombo
    replied
    Originally posted by JLesSPE
    Personally, I'm sick of DWatts, Devoe, and Adams. I think we should've cut them all and just picked up whatever was out there. We've had Devoe and Adams for a few years now and its been the same thing. They're always "almost" players and never do anything during the season. If one of our big time receivers goes down we'll sign somebody before we let one of these guys take over a number 2 or 3 spot. If we're gonna have crappy guys on the team at least change who they are from time to time to keep me from getting bored!!

    I think devoe is a keeper for now. I will rather adams return kicks that any one else, because I don't want kircus or williams to get hurt. as per watts. He and lelie, drop too many balls, I still remember last year.

    I love smith, but marshall and kircus and javon, maybe the future. together with our new TE>

    Leave a comment:


  • CHARLIEADAMSFAN
    replied
    Originally posted by Seamus22015
    You gotta be kidding me. This can only mean that Adam's work on Special Teams meant more then keeping a potentially dangerous backup WR.

    I can't believe this myself. Nothing against Adams but no way he is a stronger keeper then Watts. NO WAY!!!



    Charlie is just more valueable, maybe Watts had disciplinary problems or morale problems with other players


    GIVE CHARLIE A BREAK

    Leave a comment:


  • silkamilkamonic
    replied
    Originally posted by tnedator
    I feel pretty confident that at that time, everyone is going to be singing a different toon. While it might take a few games to solidify (especially with Marshall's injury), I believe that by the bye we will be talking about how this is the best group of Broncos receivers (Overall, top three WR + TEs) in the last 20 years.

    How are you justifying this?

    Shannon Sharpe alone is better then our entire group of TE's at this point. You can throw in Byron Chamberlein and a younger Duane Carswell and it's not even comparable.

    Rod Smith in his prime is better then SMith now, and Walker. Throw in Ed McAffery, and you have one of the most consistent 1-2 WR punch in a good few years i the NFL.

    Forget about the Javon Walker hype. He has had a very good year and a half and he could be a grewat one for Denver. He could also bust, or tear his knee up again. I think it's quite clear that actual production in the NFL is better then hype, and that was something then Smith/McAffery have over Smith/Walker.

    I'm not saying your wrong or way off base, I'm just curious why you think this?

    Leave a comment:


  • CHARLIEADAMSFAN
    replied
    Charlie

    Charlie is my favorite player i even have his jersey and thanks for showing him some love and not just being jerks

    Leave a comment:


  • tnedator
    replied
    Originally posted by Yoohoo1231
    Once again he was a rookie in '04. And anybody who knows anything about the game will tell you it takes, on average, three full seasons for a WR to break out. Yes there are some players who do well immediately or take a little longer but we cut the chord on Watts just before his third season, right when, surprise surprise, he isn't dropping balls in the preseason and we hear all about how well he did in training camp. It was definitely a mistake to cut ties this early and I will stand by that until I'm proven otherwise. Watts had a lot of hype coming in his rookie season, if Marshall drops a few passes this year, should we give up on him too?
    He was given all of last year to practice and work on his pass catching and was only active for one or two games (I believe, it might have been three or four).

    Your arguments seem to be all based on two facts, if a rookie drops a ball he will never be consistent in his career and that our coach has the best record from his time on the team, but he has consistently busted on bringing in receivers. Aside from Ed and Rod we seem to keep them around for two years and then give up on them. How can you ever expect to develope anybody if you give up on them before they really get moving?
    Ok, since you don't like my assessment that Watts' has problems catching the ball, how about some other opinions:

    Watts struggled against Houston, catching two passes but dropping a handful of others. It was the same problem that plagued him last season -- he was good at getting open, not so dependable in securing the football.

    Rice said he's trying to help the second-year receiver.

    "I just told him, 'Hey, you've got to let it go,'" Rice said. "He's a hard worker and I think he wants success, but he's got to keep on pushing. When the opportunity is there, that's when you've got to take advantage of it."
    Ok, how about this one where Watts admits to a problem, but says it isn't his damaged hand: 7/19/2006

    Last season, it was reasonable to think Watts would never improve. The glaring knock on him the past two years has been his hands — a weakness for which there is little patience in the NFL.

    And for Watts, the stigma went even deeper.

    When he was in high school, a car accident injured a nerve in his right arm that permanently limited the use and flexibility of his hand. Although the problem didn’t affect him in college, where he made 272 catches for 4,031 yards and 47 touchdowns, those looking for a reason for his drops had an obvious target — and it was one that couldn’t be remedied.

    Watts has always rejected the notion.

    “I’m here, and I’ve fought through it,” he said. “It makes it harder, but I won’t ever use it as an excuse because I don’t believe that’s where my problem is.”
    From last preseason:

    The consistency the Denver Broncos were hoping to see from wide receiver Darius Watts failed to
    materialize Saturday night. Watts, demoted from the No. 3 position on the depth chart last week because of erratic hands, failed to cash in on two opportunities for scores in a 26-21 preseason victory against the San Francisco 49ers.

    "It was a mediocre night," Watts said after the game. "I think I could have done better. I had a couple good plays but the couple plays I could have had, I've got to make sure I work on them so they don't happen again."

    Watts finished with two catches for 27 yards, with two drops and a third wiped out by a defensive holding call in the end zone.

    "I feel like I should have had two touchdowns," he said.

    "I'm not making any excuses. I dropped it," said Watts, who did have a nice downfield block on one of two long Tatum Bell runs. "I've got to make sure I get my hands on it before it gets into my chest. I've got to make that play."
    I know with a little more searching, I would come up with many more quotes from Watts himself, because there have been A LOT of articles about his drops, and he has been quoted in pretty much all of them talking about what causes his drops.

    We gave up on Watts too early, and it seems a lot of people are too blinded by the coach's credentials to atleast consider the fact it may have been a mistake.
    No, we are too blinded from smacking ourselves in the head and dropping our head into our hands after watching so many key Watts drops over the past two years.

    Leave a comment:


  • silkamilkamonic
    replied
    I don't have beef with Charlie Adams personally, and I don't have beef with the decision to part with Wats, even though I'm a fan of his.

    I do have beef with Denver Broncos keeping a player who wasn't even healthy enough to play for another team when he failed his physical in Dallas.

    It's like Denver doesn't even care who they have beyond their top 3 WR's, and then wonders why were always so weak at the position.

    Do they not have expectations for every player on their team? When it comes to the WR position, I seriously question it.

    "The irony of the situation is beyond mind boggling."

    Leave a comment:


  • Adrenaline
    replied
    Originally posted by CHARLIEADAMSFAN
    ok i dont know about you guys but i have personally met charlie adams and he is probably onw of the nicest NFL players around. Did you guys ever think maybe Darius Watts had moral problems with Cutler/Plummer, no i bet you didnt. Maybe Watts is a flat out jerk your making charlie take the blame for everything and thats not fair
    Check my Charlie "Scape Goat" Adams thread. You might find some love for Charlie there. :thumb:

    Welcome to the boards! :dance:
    Last edited by Adrenaline; 09-03-2006, 01:39 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CHARLIEADAMSFAN
    replied
    Charlie Adams come on give him a break

    ok i dont know about you guys but i have personally met charlie adams and he is probably onw of the nicest NFL players around. Did you guys ever think maybe Darius Watts had moral problems with Cutler/Plummer, no i bet you didnt. Maybe Watts is a flat out jerk your making charlie take the blame for everything and thats not fair

    Leave a comment:


  • Yoohoo1231
    replied
    Originally posted by tnedator
    Watts dropped some big balls in '04, which put him in a position where HE had to PROVE to the coaches that if he was trusted again, that he would perform better. Obviously, he didn't do that.

    The NFL is full of players that failed one place and succeeded some place else. I could provide a whole list, but lets just stick with Kircus' number, since it seems appropriate. Number 87, Ed Mccaffrey, struggled in NY and was released, before going to SF for a year or two with a minimal role, and coming to Denver to become one of the most beloved Broncos ever that wasn't named Elway.
    He was a rookie in '04. Sure, we have had some success with rookies but if we are honestly expecting every rookie player to come in and be great right away we are definitely a little out of touch. About 50 rookies start a year, and two make the pro bowl if lucky. To give up on Watts because he dropped balls his rookie year is like saying the Bengals should have given up on Carson Palmer because he didn't take a snap his rookie year. (Yes I realize they had a lot more invested in Palmer than we did Watts, but a second rounder is meant to be on your team for a while.)

    Originally posted by tnedator
    I am not sure if you watched many games in '04, but Watts dropped quite a few KEY 3rd downs that were square in his hands.
    Originally posted by tnedator
    Watts had two full season and a third training camp/preseason to realize his potential and was unable to do so in Denver.
    Once again he was a rookie in '04. And anybody who knows anything about the game will tell you it takes, on average, three full seasons for a WR to break out. Yes there are some players who do well immediately or take a little longer but we cut the chord on Watts just before his third season, right when, surprise surprise, he isn't dropping balls in the preseason and we hear all about how well he did in training camp. It was definitely a mistake to cut ties this early and I will stand by that until I'm proven otherwise. Watts had a lot of hype coming in his rookie season, if Marshall drops a few passes this year, should we give up on him too?
    Your arguments seem to be all based on two facts, if a rookie drops a ball he will never be consistent in his career and that our coach has the best record from his time on the team, but he has consistently busted on bringing in receivers. Aside from Ed and Rod we seem to keep them around for two years and then give up on them. How can you ever expect to develope anybody if you give up on them before they really get moving?


    We gave up on Watts too early, and it seems a lot of people are too blinded by the coach's credentials to atleast consider the fact it may have been a mistake.

    Leave a comment:

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