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Answers for weak pass rush.

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  • BigBroncLove
    replied
    I must admit that agree with a great deal of your post. Good insight with obvious knowledge of line play and how it is applied. Learned a lot from this post. However I must admit that there are several schemes on here that I tend not to agree with.

    Rookie defensive lineman Elvis Dumervil of Louisville has shown an outstanding first step and possesses natural leverage, which are among the reasons why the coaches also used him at defensive tackle in camp and in the preseason, as he could often get to the interior gap off the snap quicker than the guards, who are generally better run blockers than pass protectors. The use of stunts will allow players with decent pass rushing skill like Dumervil and Kenard Lang to work against guards and will give them a greater chance of success. Defensive Tackle Gerard Warren was also effective as a pass rusher when used on stunts during training camp.
    Though I think your right, that for at least some plays Dumerville and to a lesser extent Lang, would be able to explode across the line and make speed mismatches against the gaurds, that eventually, because of the lack of room, and the difficulties in anticipating snap counts against todays Offenses, that simply shifting your center or gaurds to fill the holes would stop all their progress. Especially because they both lack the size and power to muscle through a Gaurd or Center. They may be able to do it for the first couple of drives, but after a while the gas would run out. I noticed that Dumerville did especially well getting around the corner against the Tackles, exploding across the line faster then the RT could get infront of him, forcing them to either hold and risk a penalty, or give up the sack or pressure. This is probably the best way to utilize him in my opinion. Given Dumerville's speed across the line he will hopefully get around the RT with enough speed to create some sort of pressure, or collapse the strong side. Even if he doesn't create a lot of success, so long as he continues to burst to the outside, he will pull the RT further and further out each down, making it possible for single man blitz by D.J. Williams or an overlaod blitz on the strong side to create real pressure through the big hole the RT gave up.

    Instead of asking their defensive linemen to simply “beat the other man”, the Broncos should also use overload concepts that are helpful in giving the Broncos a numbers advantage. For example, on defensive line “loops” and “games”, one member of the defensive line moves laterally to the other side of the line, so that 3 members of the defensive line are rushing the passer from one side against only half of the offensive line.
    Though I know you feel this is a high risk play as well, I think that it should only be applied to the least mobile of QB's. Shifting your personel like that upfront will open up an entire lane for a QB to scramble to. If you apply it to only sure-fire passing downs then that usually means you'll be running a cover 2 in our defense, so you cant pull an LB to plug up the possible QB scramble. Though I think this idea has merit, it should be used only in a very limited basis.

    The Broncos can also improve their success at pass rushing through other types of blitzes, albeit not in the same high risk fashion as in the past. Denver can start by incorporating more corner blitzes into their common staple of defensive plays. Cornerback Darrent Williams showed that he was especially gifted on these plays (especially coming from the over the slot receiver) last year, as did Champ Bailey. Especially when employed from the sideline closest to the ball, these blitzes are generally effective as corners are usually unblocked and come as a surprise to the passer whose protections often call for him to throw to his hot route only when the unaccounted for linebacker blitzes.
    Though I generally think a corner blitz should be fit somewhere into the system every game, I do think that against some teams they simply don't work. Against a team like the Colts with two #1 capable recievers, yanking someone as important as Bailey and to a lesser extent Williams I don't feel is an option. If you don't create the pressure or get the sack, the deep ball is up for grabs if you yank an LB to cover the #1 WR. If you yank the SS, then the quick shot gives up an easy 10. If you yank both and they spread the field, the HB or FB are gonna be somewhere on the field all alone. It's very high risk. But against teams with less capable reciever cores its a great way to creat pressure .


    Otherwise, I lvoe the post, keem em' coming
    Last edited by BigBroncLove; 11-04-2006, 11:03 PM.

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by broncolitis
    Sorry But I've got to disagree on this thread. Our rush is just fine I wouldn't change a thing. We have already had several 100 + yards games already. The only games we've lost are against an undefeated and hot Indiana team, and the first game which we never do well in.
    Just fine eh? Last year they finished 28th in the league. This year they aren't any better. Denver has one of the WORST DL pass-rushes in football. But, don't take my word for it: Football Outsiders' DL ranking for 2006 Currently Denver ranks 27th. That's not very good.

    I'm so tired of the homers who just say "the Colts were hot so we just lost" without trying to understand WHY we lost. There are reasons. The Colts are certainly not unbeatable. Their defense sucked. The Broncos scored 31 points on them. That game was winnable except that the DL failed to generate ANY pressure on Manning. So, he sat back there and passed for 300+ yards and 3 TDs.

    I would very much doubt the Colts will win the SB this year, not with that horrible run defense. Somebody will slow down Peyton Manning just as the Steelers and Patriots have done the last 3 years in the playoffs.

    Even if they got to the SB does anybody seriously think they could beat say the Bears, who have a great DL, great defense and a high-scoring offense to boot? Not likely.

    But, the Broncos are NOT going to win any SBs until they get a DL that can rush the passer. Period.

    Leave a comment:


  • dontfeedthenerd
    replied
    Originally posted by broncolitis
    Sorry But I've got to disagree on this thread. Our rush is just fine I wouldn't change a thing. We have already had several 100 + yards games already. The only games we've lost are against an undefeated and hot Indiana team, and the first game which we never do well in.

    Pass rush kiddo, not rush, pass rush. As in QB pressures and sacks on the defensive end.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncolitis
    replied
    Sorry But I've got to disagree on this thread. Our rush is just fine I wouldn't change a thing. We have already had several 100 + yards games already. The only games we've lost are against an undefeated and hot Indiana team, and the first game which we never do well in.

    Leave a comment:


  • str8jacket
    replied
    Originally posted by gobroncsnv
    Ummm, better linemen???? When is the last time we had 40 (let alone 50) sacks in a season? Maybe you can come up with a way to disguise it for a while, but sooner or later, we need to get some top notch performers. I'm not saying I could block our dline, but the Colts and Steelers sure did.
    exactly

    is it that hard to understand for everyone? we cant live off of blitzes

    Leave a comment:


  • Bronco4l1fe
    replied
    Originally posted by SmithOverTO
    None of whom are the Colts, the number one team in the AFC. Its pretty clear that the road to the Super Bowl runs through Indy.
    Well that is what everyone thought last year, but it went thru Denver in the end, so lets see if we can do it again this year. The way to beat Indy is to stop Payton, and how to do it, is to watch the films of the teams that have, and make adjustments at halftime, but that is for a later date. We have other teams to think of before that road is at our feet again.

    Leave a comment:


  • gobroncsnv
    replied
    Ummm, better linemen???? When is the last time we had 40 (let alone 50) sacks in a season? Maybe you can come up with a way to disguise it for a while, but sooner or later, we need to get some top notch performers. I'm not saying I could block our dline, but the Colts and Steelers sure did.

    Leave a comment:


  • stnzed
    replied
    Imo, you can't overload on the Colts....

    Moore and Manning are too good.

    The offense is so well coached that Manning and the recievers will adjust and kill you.

    Most likely the spot your blitzing from, but , by no means exclusively.

    One on one pass rush with stunts and very few blitz's could work if the Broncos had someone worth double teaming! And I don't mean Gerrard Warren.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thrasher
    replied
    the colts are a pass oriented team, so it the pass rush is even more important than against the others. and the have manning

    Leave a comment:


  • SmithOverTO
    replied
    Originally posted by ReleaseTheBeast7
    I guess you didn't watch the Chief, Patriot, Raven, Raider, or Browns game...
    None of whom are the Colts, the number one team in the AFC. Its pretty clear that the road to the Super Bowl runs through Indy.

    Leave a comment:


  • ReleaseTheBeast7
    replied
    Originally posted by BroncoBailey024
    Great post man, I agree our Rush has been sad.
    I guess you didn't watch the Chief, Patriot, Raven, Raider, or Browns game...

    Leave a comment:


  • P-NUT33
    replied
    I wont take all the credit, the guy from orangemane should.

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoBailey024
    replied
    Great post man, I agree our Rush has been sad.

    Leave a comment:


  • MarvinWillis
    started a topic Answers for weak pass rush.

    Answers for weak pass rush.

    http://www.orangemane.com/article_257.php

    Socal Bronco: Suggestions for Improving the Pass Rush
    By SoCalBronco
    Nov 2, 2006, 01:21

    After being humiliated yet again by Peyton Manning and the explosive Colts offense, the Broncos must face the uncomfortable question that has haunted them since the start of the decade: What to do about the pathetic pass rush?

    The last two seasons have offered stark contrasts in Larry Coyer’s approach to the problem. Last season, the Broncos were blitz-heavy, and featured a particularly unique package of bringing 11 men up to the line of scrimmage bringing heavy pressure at times with 7 or 8 man blitzes from that look, or zone blitzes with three deep coverage behind it. The strategy was not bad in theory or in practice, as the Broncos often disrupted opposing offenses and achieved a solid degree of pressure even though this pressure did not result in a great deal of sacks.

    The same approach has also been successful in the past. The University of Alabama Crimson Tide used the exact same strategy from the exact same 11 man on the LOS alignment to win the national championship in the Sugar Bowl on New Year’s Day, 1993. But that approach is no panacea, as it is still a double edged sword: it offers the promise of high reward, but also entails a high degree of risk, which partially explained why Coyer had to protect his corners by playing them off.

    This year, the Broncos have taken fewer chances and have been generally more basic in their approach, placing the pass rushing burden largely on the defensive line. To put it bluntly though, Denver’s personnel simply can’t cut it against the elite or even above average offensive lines in this league, as we saw last Sunday.

    Therefore, the Broncos need to be more creative in their approach. Against Indianapolis (and generally speaking, throughout the season) Denver has employed basic line play, usually eschewing stunts, loops and defensive line games. These strategies are useful to getting better pass rushing matchups and should be employed more frequently.

    Rookie defensive lineman Elvis Dumervil of Louisville has shown an outstanding first step and possesses natural leverage, which are among the reasons why the coaches also used him at defensive tackle in camp and in the preseason, as he could often get to the interior gap off the snap quicker than the guards, who are generally better run blockers than pass protectors. The use of stunts will allow players with decent pass rushing skill like Dumervil and Kenard Lang to work against guards and will give them a greater chance of success. Defensive Tackle Gerard Warren was also effective as a pass rusher when used on stunts during training camp.

    Instead of asking their defensive linemen to simply “beat the other man”, the Broncos should also use overload concepts that are helpful in giving the Broncos a numbers advantage. For example, on defensive line “loops” and “games”, one member of the defensive line moves laterally to the other side of the line, so that 3 members of the defensive line are rushing the passer from one side against only half of the offensive line.

    This approach is risky to be sure, as it often can hurt a defense when the offense runs to the opposite side, but should nonetheless be a viable option on sure-fire passing downs. Another overload concept that Denver should employ more frequently is one that they have often used the last two seasons, but not much this season: bringing a safety and linebacker from the same side (often John Lynch was pegged for this role, in tandem with Ian Gold or D.J. Williams). This approach has created pressure for Denver in the past, as the blitzside guard and tackle had to deal with defensive linemen, while the back to that side could only block one of the two blitzers.

    The Broncos can also improve their success at pass rushing through other types of blitzes, albeit not in the same high risk fashion as in the past. Denver can start by incorporating more corner blitzes into their common staple of defensive plays. Cornerback Darrent Williams showed that he was especially gifted on these plays (especially coming from the over the slot receiver) last year, as did Champ Bailey. Especially when employed from the sideline closest to the ball, these blitzes are generally effective as corners are usually unblocked and come as a surprise to the passer whose protections often call for him to throw to his hot route only when the unaccounted for linebacker blitzes.

    The other specific kind of blitzes that Denver could employ are delay blitzes. For all of their speed and ability to pursue, the Broncos special trio of linebackers have not been effective at defeating pass blockers and getting to the quarterback. Delay blitzes can help by giving running backs with linebacker blitz responsibility the false impression that the linebackers are playing man to man instead of blitzing.

    In today’s NFL, many pass protection schemes are based on running backs “check releasing”, which calls for them to release into their route only after checking whether the linebacker assigned to them blitzes. By delaying at the snap and mirroring the running back’s initial movement for a single count, the backers are more likely to deceive the backs into releasing after their check, when the linebackers can then shoot through the gap right to the quarterback.
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