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  • Blame Shanahan / Coaching Staff (Merged)

    OK look, after the loss people are gonna be calling for Plummer's head. Well let me tell you, I agree. Listen, if Mike Shanahan is gonna try to make Jake stay in the pocket and not allow him to bootleg and roll out and do the things that we all know he is good at, then what are we waiting for, put Cutler in. Jake is not a pocket QB, he cant do much better than 10/21 1 TD 1 INT or so when he is strictly staying in the pocket. When we move the pocket and allow Jake to run a little, then Jake will produce. Against the colts, Shanny did a good job rolling out the pocket I noticed Jake reponded and had a good game. I heard Madden say he wanted to use less rollouts and keep jake in the poclet, he is not a good pocket passer. This loss was a team loss, but fr fututre reference Mike cant make Jake a good pocket passer, Jake strength is moving around. It may be unconventional but thats what he does well. If Shanny wants a traditional pocket passer, he needs to go ahead and put in Cutler.
    dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

    I tried to warn ya.

  • #2
    He didn't roll Jake out because the Chargers were staying home and defending against it. Jake would have been murdered had he rolled out in most cases tonight.

    If Jake can't throw from the pocket, we're screwed because defenses keep making it more difficult for us to run those plays.
    "You can't take the sky from me..."
    ------
    "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Return of Lava
      OK look, after the loss people are gonna be calling for Plummer's head. Well let me tell you, I agree. Listen, if Mike Shanahan is gonna try to make Jake stay in the pocket and not allow him to bootleg and roll out and do the things that we all know he is good at, then what are we waiting for, put Cutler in. Jake is not a pocket QB, he cant do much better than 10/21 1 TD 1 INT or so when he is strictly staying in the pocket. When we move the pocket and allow Jake to run a little, then Jake will produce. Against the colts, Shanny did a good job rolling out the pocket I noticed Jake reponded and had a good game. I heard Madden say he wanted to use less rollouts and keep jake in the poclet, he is not a good pocket passer. This loss was a team loss, but fr fututre reference Mike cant make Jake a good pocket passer, Jake strength is moving around. It may be unconventional but thats what he does well. If Shanny wants a traditional pocket passer, he needs to go ahead and put in Cutler.
      I think teams have just learned to stay home. When they don't do a good job of staying home, we roll out. But teh Chargers were always there. Didn't you see how they were right there for most of the screens? The pitch out? They had people trained to look for the play action and rolls. In the NFL, you NEED to be able to pass from the pocket... especially when you need to score.

      Comment


      • #4
        Great Point

        It's a great point you bring up and something that I have been saying. Jake is his best when he is outside the pocket or on the run. However, he is a subpar QB when he drops back to pass. His ability to get out on the run and make special passing lanes is what makes him unique. However when we run a standard drop back and pass system, he becomes ineffective. Jay Cutler is a solution to this problem I believe. Yes other teams have been catching on to the bootlegging system but with our running game today I'm sure we could have found ways to get Jake on the move and playing to his greatest potential. However, since we don't taylor our offensive scheme to this pattern anymore I believe we need Jay Cutler to start. He should honestly have more success than Jake and I would expect to do better. We need to take a chance and make a change if we are truly serious about going to the Super Bowl. This means starting Jay.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ravage!!!
          I think teams have just learned to stay home. When they don't do a good job of staying home, we roll out. But teh Chargers were always there. Didn't you see how they were right there for most of the screens? The pitch out? They had people trained to look for the play action and rolls. In the NFL, you NEED to be able to pass from the pocket... especially when you need to score.
          Most of the screens we ran were for big gains, what are you talking about?

          SD was covering the backside sometimes, but not all the time, the run game was working we should have ran a bootleg or 2 n the second half.

          The run game is a whole other story, how does Nash jump ahead of Cobbs so quick? Nash did have a good game, but why didnt cobbs get a chance to get those long gains wasnt he 3rd string? And why was cecil sapp and mike bell returning kicks? And Williams and Kircus both doing punts? I just dont like the way shanahan is doing things right now.

          Anyway back to Plummer

          You can roll the pocket out anytime you want to, Im not sayin do it every snap, but have a nice mix the way we did against the colts. Madden even said it, Jake becomes a lot better in the pocket once he gets to run outside the pocket. If you were watching, even the bootleg was open at times during the game, Shanny said GOING IN to the game he wanted to do less of that. If he wants to play like that Plummer isnt gonna do well. He may as well put in Cutler.
          dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

          I tried to warn ya.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Return of Lava
            He may as well put in Cutler.
            Hmm.... Now there's an idea.


            Seriously, that's what most people are hoping with Cutler. He's mobile (although not at Jake's level) but also good from the pocket. We obviously have no idea how he'd respond if thrown into the fire but the more Jake struggles the more people think Cutler would be worth a shot.


            And thus all the consternation on Broncomania.
            "You can't take the sky from me..."
            ------
            "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Den4Life
              It's a great point you bring up and something that I have been saying. Jake is his best when he is outside the pocket or on the run. However, he is a subpar QB when he drops back to pass. His ability to get out on the run and make special passing lanes is what makes him unique. However when we run a standard drop back and pass system, he becomes ineffective. Jay Cutler is a solution to this problem I believe. Yes other teams have been catching on to the bootlegging system but with our running game today I'm sure we could have found ways to get Jake on the move and playing to his greatest potential. However, since we don't taylor our offensive scheme to this pattern anymore I believe we need Jay Cutler to start. He should honestly have more success than Jake and I would expect to do better. We need to take a chance and make a change if we are truly serious about going to the Super Bowl. This means starting Jay.
              I dont know why mike would try to keep Jake strictly in the pocket. Everytime he does that Jake basically becomes a 50% passer with the same number of TD as INT's happens time and time again, and we end up scoring below 20. The offense scored 20 only because the run game was so effective, especially at the goalline. SD's defense really wasnt that stout we were running very well I thought.
              dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

              I tried to warn ya.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Return of Lava
                Most of the screens we ran were for big gains, what are you talking about?

                SD was covering the backside sometimes, but not all the time, the run game was working we should have ran a bootleg or 2 n the second half.

                The run game is a whole other story, how does Nash jump ahead of Cobbs so quick? Nash did have a good game, but why didnt cobbs get a chance to get those long gains wasnt he 3rd string? And why was cecil sapp and mike bell returning kicks? And Williams and Kircus both doing punts? I just dont like the way shanahan is doing things right now.

                Anyway back to Plummer

                You can roll the pocket out anytime you want to, Im not sayin do it every snap, but have a nice mix the way we did against the colts. Madden even said it, Jake becomes a lot better in the pocket once he gets to run outside the pocket. If you were watching, even the bootleg was open at times during the game, Shanny said GOING IN to the game he wanted to do less of that. If he wants to play like that Plummer isnt gonna do well. He may as well put in Cutler.
                Did you see the play when Nash got stuck for a 7 yard loss on the fake FB run and HB toss. The back side was covered all night. Do you seriously think Shanny is stupid? It wasn't there. Teams are on to the roll outs. That was effective two years ago. A QB needs to throw from the pocket...period.
                The three Keys to football
                1. Turnovers
                2. Field Position
                3. Red Zone Play

                Comment


                • #9
                  I know. People actually think Shanny is missing that. It's time to face the fact that teams are taking the roll out away. That's where Jake is at his best. The teams we are playing WANT to keep him in the pocket at all times & this chops Jake's effectiveness down 20-30%.

                  It's always one of the keys to the game against the Broncos: Keep Plummer in the pocket
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Javalon
                    Hmm.... Now there's an idea.


                    Seriously, that's what most people are hoping with Cutler. He's mobile (although not at Jake's level) but also good from the pocket. We obviously have no idea how he'd respond if thrown into the fire but the more Jake struggles the more people think Cutler would be worth a shot.


                    And thus all the consternation on Broncomania.
                    I'm pretty sure Jay is a better pocket passer, just from what i seen in preseason, he delivery is very much smoother than Plummers from the pocket. I've actually never denied that believe it or not. The thing is we dont really know what we get with Jay, he will make rookie mistakes. With jake we know what we get, which is a very good QB *when he gets to run and make plays* and a very average QB *when he has to stay in the pocket* You would think Shanny could keep tryin to find ways to get Plummer running, more QB sweeps and roll outs, if he wanted to, but i think he's just gonna bring in Cutler and play a much easier pocket pass style and just accept the rookie mistakes.

                    I'm tired of defending Plummer and tryin to explain his strengths all the time. If we're not gonna play the way he plays best, put Cutler in now and be done with it. I hate watching Jake stay in the pocket.
                    dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                    I tried to warn ya.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BroncoRT
                      Did you see the play when Nash got stuck for a 7 yard loss on the fake FB run and HB toss. The back side was covered all night. Do you seriously think Shanny is stupid? It wasn't there. Teams are on to the roll outs. That was effective two years ago. A QB needs to throw from the pocket...period.
                      That was one freakin play, it wasnt like that all night. Did you see the SAME exact play that got us a 1st down on 4th down?????????????????


                      When I say roll the pocket, that means all the lineman move the pass protection to the left orf right. I'm not talkin bout bootlegs where jake is all alone out there.
                      dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                      I tried to warn ya.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Return of Lava
                        That was one freakin play, it wasnt like that all night. Did you see the SAME exact play that got us a 1st down on 4th down?????????????????

                        Hey genius... if you watched the backside pursuit on most of the plays, they stayed put to watch for the bootleg and roll outs.

                        Do you think they look at pictures on the sideline for fun. It wasn't there!!!!
                        The three Keys to football
                        1. Turnovers
                        2. Field Position
                        3. Red Zone Play

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Javalon
                          Hmm.... Now there's an idea.


                          Seriously, that's what most people are hoping with Cutler. He's mobile (although not at Jake's level) but also good from the pocket. We obviously have no idea how he'd respond if thrown into the fire but the more Jake struggles the more people think Cutler would be worth a shot.


                          And thus all the consternation on Broncomania.

                          Cutler has just as much mobility as jake. He can throw on the run and stay in the pocket.
                          As the great divide in America continues we are causing harm to our future generations by avoiding what needs to be done.

                          More people recognize Britney Spears than Dick Cheney.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            RT you dont get what im sayin, I mean roll the whole line out not jake out there by himself, you can move the pocket anytime you feel like it, and it gets jake running a little bit which make him better for whatever reason. We did it against the colts and had our first 20 point game let alone 30
                            dont let him pull dat move on ya, dont let him pull that move.......................oh no dats da move! TOUCHDOWN!!!

                            I tried to warn ya.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Shanahan's biggest problem is that he misses Kubiak. That is why the playcalling has been lackluster IMO

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