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Before placing blame, look at the tight ends and wide receiver numbers....

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  • #31
    Originally posted by kmcgough25
    Mojo,

    I understand what you're saying, but I respectfully disagree with the amount of attacks on Plummer as being typical of every other NFL city. It is MUCH heavier on the Denver posts.

    There are alot of qb controversies out there and I've lived in different cities where there was one. But this is off the chain, especially for a rookie qb. I'm currently in Jacksonville but I've lived through it in Philly and New York.

    While I do not claim to be pro Jake or pro Cutler (I just want to win and I trust Shanny), the intesity of the debate is VERY high, higher than most places.

    I, too, am very frustrated with his performance, and agree that everyone has a right to be, the premise of the post is correct. Javon Walker, Plummer, the RBs, the Offense in general, needs more support from the receiving corp.

    There is usually a trend that if there are enough playmakers, a qb looks good. And consequently, when there is not enough, a qb looks bad. That is not excusing the forced passes and fumbles and I am not questioning the PUT CUTLER IN NOW folks, because I understand why.

    It is, however, a little over the top, that the posts are constantly all about that and little else regarding the lack of production for the offense.
    Well, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement.

    If you believe this problem is bigger in Denver than anywhere else, you clearly have never been to Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Dallas, just to name a few. Furthermore, there was no quarterback controversy in Denver until we drafted Cutler. That's what happens when you draft an heir apparent in the first round.

    I just think that people act like this has something to do wtih Jake living in the shadow of John Elway, when this is a problem that happens with virtually every team at some point. The only thing that's going to fix it is to cut or trade one of them out of here.
    sigpic

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    • #32
      Originally posted by mojo0730
      Well, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement.

      If you believe this problem is bigger in Denver than anywhere else, you clearly have never been to Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Dallas, just to name a few. Furthermore, there was no quarterback controversy in Denver until we drafted Cutler. That's what happens when you draft an heir apparent in the first round.

      I just think that people act like this has something to do wtih Jake living in the shadow of John Elway, when this is a problem that happens with virtually every team at some point. The only thing that's going to fix it is to cut or trade one of them out of here.
      Thanks Mojo, anf I absolutley agree with you on the Elway shadow part and again agree that it happens to every team at some point.


      And thanks for being amicable!!
      My 2011 adopted poster.........and and



      Adopted by: and

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      • #33
        Originally posted by kmcgough25
        Thanks Mojo, anf I absolutley agree with you on the Elway shadow part and again agree that it happens to every team at some point.


        And thanks for being amicable!!
        I always am ...
        sigpic

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        • #34
          Yup, I remember when the city of Nashville wanted Steve McNair replaced the year they went to the Super Bowl. Then he got hurt a little and wanted him gone again because Neil Odonnell filled in so well.

          It is not just at Denver.
          As the great divide in America continues we are causing harm to our future generations by avoiding what needs to be done.

          More people recognize Britney Spears than Dick Cheney.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by mojo0730
            Well, I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with your respectful disagreement.

            If you believe this problem is bigger in Denver than anywhere else, you clearly have never been to Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Dallas, just to name a few. Furthermore, there was no quarterback controversy in Denver until we drafted Cutler. That's what happens when you draft an heir apparent in the first round.

            I just think that people act like this has something to do wtih Jake living in the shadow of John Elway, when this is a problem that happens with virtually every team at some point. The only thing that's going to fix it is to cut or trade one of them out of here.
            Everyone wondered why Shanny drafted Cutler when he had a "suitable" quarterback. The cat is out of the bag now.
            As the great divide in America continues we are causing harm to our future generations by avoiding what needs to be done.

            More people recognize Britney Spears than Dick Cheney.

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            • #36
              ***?

              Am I the only one reading this that realizes that a receiver's completion stats are directly related to the performance of the QB? The receivers are getting open, Plummer can't see past the first and second reads and when he does see an open man he hasn't been on target. Second to last completion percentage in the league, of course the wideouts numbers are suffering.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by jpark31
                The reason he has better number is because the team IS better...For the most part of Elways career he WAS the team...Elway won games with mediocre players on the offense and our defense wasn't that good so he had to win most of his games in the 3rd and 4th quarters coming from behind...

                Plummer has a more complete team around him offensively and defensively and they play like a team. How many fumbles or interceptions has Jake had this year during key possesions? It's quit a few and it is understandable that the fans are upset for just this reason. They should also be upset with receivers that don't catch balls thrown to them though, I don't see that though...
                This is valid. The team is probably the best team they have ever had............

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                • #38
                  8 in the box/////

                  Originally posted by JRWIZ
                  Normally I have you on ignore but I wanted to rebut some of this.

                  The TE's are being held into block because of the inexperience at OT. I think I noted but could be wrong that the TE was in a pattern only once in the SAN game and that was in the 4th qtr.

                  Our #1 RB is not the game breaker like everyone thought him to be. The big numbers he put up were early in the year when he was fresh. He has seemed to have worn down until he was injured.

                  I personnaly like Nash the best out of the group and them M Bell. Over what I have seen in the past few games. They seem to run with more authority and don't go down at first contact.
                  Do you remember when the offense was so weak that Elway was forced to use the shotgun. He was always under intense pressure from the defence. Plumber has one of the best offenses in Bronco history protecting him. He has the best defnce ever keeping him in the game. If they are puting 8 in the box, why doesnt he go to the shotgun for added time to throw.? Let the defences use up energy getting in his face, while he screen passes or throws for yardage. I was surprised that they got rid of Anderson. I felt Tatum was more of a specialty runner. I felt Anderson was the meat and potatoe machine. After Anderson wore down the defence, Tatum would come in and cut another route for big yardage. He is only good for 10 to 15 carries. Then again, the old 40 carries a game is a thing of the past. Cecil Sapp needs to be used more. Amyways>>>> the play book is conservative.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by goucho141
                    I think with better coaching, WRs, focus and determination, Jake would become the best in the league.
                    You're saying he has bad coaching and receivers? I don't agree. Also he is a professional if he doesn't have focus and determination after 91/2 seasons in the League I doubt he ever will. Just for the record, I think he has focus and detemination but he's just hasn't been an accurate passer for the vast majority of his career.
                    Last edited by TXBRONC; 11-22-2006, 05:17 AM.
                    John 11: 25-27

                    My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                    Thanks Snk16

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by goucho141
                      Do you remember when the offense was so weak that Elway was forced to use the shotgun. He was always under intense pressure from the defence. Plumber has one of the best offenses in Bronco history protecting him. He has the best defnce ever keeping him in the game. If they are puting 8 in the box, why doesnt he go to the shotgun for added time to throw.? Let the defences use up energy getting in his face, while he screen passes or throws for yardage. I was surprised that they got rid of Anderson. I felt Tatum was more of a specialty runner. I felt Anderson was the meat and potatoe machine. After Anderson wore down the defence, Tatum would come in and cut another route for big yardage. He is only good for 10 to 15 carries. Then again, the old 40 carries a game is a thing of the past. Cecil Sapp needs to be used more. Amyways>>>> the play book is conservative.
                      This Oline is designed for zone blocking for the run, it is much to light to pass protect consistently.

                      This best defense is 27th giving up yards!

                      Ask mikey he calls the plays!

                      About tater he has demonstrated this year he is wearing out after about 10th or more runs the numbers have really went down in YPC.

                      The new kid Nash might be the answer at stud buffalo, Mike Bell might be also.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by JRWIZ
                        This Oline is designed for zone blocking for the run, it is much to light to pass protect consistently.
                        Which is why the TE's are having to block. Between Clarence Kay and Sharpe in his prime, I wouldn't rate any of our TE's even close to what Elway had. And I don't know that we'll EVER have as good a line as we had in 97-98.... These guys aren't CLOSE to that. Nor do we have a WR tandem to match Rod in his prime along with EddieMac. Tatum/Mike/Nash/Cobbs compared to TD???? Don't even try that.
                        Including QB, our current team is second rate compared to our SB winning teams, with VERY few exceptions.... Including DLine...
                        Neil Smith, Alfred Williams, the Tractor, and Tanavasu against the whosit's we have now??? Our LB's are maybe as good, if not a bit better (I liked Mobley alot), but our CB's are def the best we've had. Who wouldn't take Atwater against our current safeties...
                        For the most part, we aren't nearly the talent we had back then. And yes, including the QB position.
                        I know that this was about the TE's and WR's, but someone mentioned the whole team, so I had to work that topic. I can ramble with the best of 'em.

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                        • #42
                          Sorry for just jumping in on this, I am sure you are all having a great logical debate on this.

                          But with our tight ends numbers...

                          How many droped passes do we have this year?

                          I bet it is one of "the" lowest totals for the broncos in a season so far.

                          I have not been seeing to much droped passes but our Wide outs stepping up and makeing big plays.

                          Marshall looks like he is going to be good...

                          the answer to the title about the numbers is mainly because of ball placement and not our players getting open or droping passes

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by JRWIZ
                            This Oline is designed for zone blocking for the run, it is much to light to pass protect consistently.
                            your right, also with zone blocking scheme like we and atlanta you have an increase in your run effectivness and decrease you pass protection mainly do to size of offensive linemen.

                            our pass protection has been doing very well for us this year.

                            could it be better? Of course.

                            on bright side if we put in 3rd stringers at OL they will be better then vandys

                            hint hint

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by goucho141
                              I think with better coaching, WRs, focus and determination, Jake would become the best in the league.
                              Jake has been in the league 10 years now. How much coaching does the fellow need. I hope your last name is Marx for that is a hysterical statement.
                              As the great divide in America continues we are causing harm to our future generations by avoiding what needs to be done.

                              More people recognize Britney Spears than Dick Cheney.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by NBudris
                                your right, also with zone blocking scheme like we and atlanta you have an increase in your run effectivness and decrease you pass protection mainly do to size of offensive linemen.

                                our pass protection has been doing very well for us this year.

                                could it be better? Of course.

                                on bright side if we put in 3rd stringers at OL they will be better then vandys

                                hint hint
                                And Cutler would still be completing passes.
                                As the great divide in America continues we are causing harm to our future generations by avoiding what needs to be done.

                                More people recognize Britney Spears than Dick Cheney.

                                Comment

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