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  • cnickel84
    replied
    Let me just say this. The three super bowls that Elway lost, Elway carried those teams on his back to the Super Bowl and just got smoked by a better team. We wouldn't have gone to those three super bowls if not for Elway. Elway was a winner. He wanted to win. You could see it in his eyes. The intensity. Especially in the last two minutes and he was down and needed a score. He was going to make the plays to give his team the best shot. Plummer cannot and never will carry a team on his back. He does not have the talent to do that. Also he is lacking the intensity that Elway had. Granted Elway won the super bowls with a great team and with help, namely T.D., but he carried that team till 95. It was Elway and who else? Bobby Humphrey? Oh yea Shannon Sharpe. Thats it. Yet he still managed to find a way to the Super Bowl even with the lack of talent around him. Who knows what Plummer might have done with a line like Elway had with a back like T.D., but I know that Plummer would have never carried his teams to the Super Bowl with the teams Elway played with in the 80s. Elway was a leader and a freak talent who wanted to win at all cost and hated losing. Do you see Plummer diving for a crucial first down in a super bowl to give your team a chance for 7 points now? Not even taking into the account that Elway was 37 when he did that? No way. Plummer would not do it. Plummer is an average QB who can win with people around him, but cannot make the plays to win big win he has to make the plays. No comparison. Cutler also has that freak talent in arm strength. Elway was more mobile and it remains to be seen if Cutler has that intensity and will to win that Elway had. Thats what made Elway a great.

    Leave a comment:


  • kratos_godofwar
    replied
    Yeah, but Elway did it by himself. Plummer needs a strong starting cast to help him win. But he can't even do that when he had great talen surronding him. Say Plummer is better than Elway is like saying Joey Harrington is better Dan Marino. Plummer is good QB, but not one that could help us get to the super bowl.

    Leave a comment:


  • PowderAddict
    replied
    Originally posted by Grunge_Bassist
    http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.ph...&contentID=751

    7 ints in 456 attempts. I seriously don't see how Elway is better than Plummer?

    Elway blew 3 Super Bowls and one was 55-10!! Come on people if Plummer lost a Super Bowl I doubt it would be that bad. 55-10!!!

    How many times did Elway just get us to the divisionals, or barely to the wild card?

    Jake Plummer(Career 10yrs)
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | 1997 ari | 10 | 157 296 53.0 2203 7.4 15 15
    | 1998 ari | 16 | 324 547 59.2 3737 6.8 17 20
    | 1999 ari | 12 | 201 381 52.8 2111 5.5 9 24
    | 2000 ari | 14 | 270 475 56.8 2946 6.2 13 21
    | 2001 ari | 16 | 304 525 57.9 3653 7.0 18 14
    | 2002 ari | 16 | 284 530 53.6 2972 5.6 18 20
    | 2003 den | 11 | 189 302 62.6 2182 7.2 15 7
    | 2004 den | 16 | 303 521 58.2 4089 7.8 27 20
    | 2005 den | 16 | 277 456 60.7 3366 7.4 18 7
    | 2006 den | 10 | 150 276 54.3 1778 6.4 10 11
    +-------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 137 | 2459 4309 57.1 29037 6.7 160 159 |
    +-------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    QB RATING = 74.7



    Jake Plummer(4yrs.w/Denver)
    +----------+-----+------------------------------------------------+
    | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT |
    +----------+-----+------------------------------------------------+
    | 2003 den | 11 | 189 302 62.6 2182 7.2 15 7
    | 2004 den | 16 | 303 521 58.2 4089 7.8 27 20
    | 2005 den | 16 | 277 456 60.7 3366 7.4 18 7
    | 2006 den | 10 | 150 276 54.3 1778 6.4 10 11
    +---------=-+-----+-----------------------------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 53 | 919 1555 58.9 11415 7.2 70 45 |
    +------------+-----+-----------------------------------------------+
    QB RATING = 84.8



    JOHN ELWAY (1st 10 Years)
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD - Y/A TD INT |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | 1983 den | 11 | 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 |
    | 1984 den | 15 | 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 |
    | 1985 den | 16 | 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 |
    | 1986 den | 16 | 280 504 55.6 3485 6.9 19 13 |
    | 1987 den | 12 | 224 410 54.6 3198 7.8 19 12 |
    | 1988 den | 15 | 274 496 55.2 3309 6.7 17 19 |
    | 1989 den | 15 | 223 416 53.6 3051 7.3 18 18 |
    | 1990 den | 16 | 294 502 58.6 3526 7.0 15 14 |
    | 1991 den | 16 | 242 451 53.7 3253 7.2 13 12 |
    | 1992 den | 12 | 174 316 55.1 2242 7.1 10 17 |
    +------------+-----+-----------------------------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 144 | 2377 4339 54.4 30216 6.9 177 157 |
    +------------+-----+-----------------------------------------------+
    QB RATING = 75.2



    JOHN ELWAY (Last 4 Years)
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | 1995 den | 16 | 316 542 58.3 3970 7.3 26 14 |
    | 1996 den | 15 | 287 466 61.6 3328 7.1 26 14 |
    | 1997 den | 16 | 280 502 55.8 3635 7.2 27 11 |
    | 1998 den | 13 | 210 356 59.0 2806 7.9 22 10 |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 60 | 1093 1866 58.6 13739 7.3 101 49 |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    QB RATING = 88.6

    Looks like Jake isn't doing so bad even though he was in Arizona for half his career, he is having an off year. But..just like freaking Miami we hope the new guy is the next greatest pro bowler. They want another Marino, and we Denver fans want another Elway.

    Cutler is a pocket guy. With what little time our ageing OL gives Plummer, I doubt Cutler will do much better.

    The speacial teams coverage is horrible, the D is now coughing up points, the recievers are dropping passes. What makes you think they are gonna catch any better with Cutler throwing the ball.

    I know Elway like Marino is a legend. Yet, those great years like this rough year are not always the QB's doing. Thats why its called a team game. They Elway and Marino had great teams too. Just like Plummer had last year, and he will again.

    Oh...and Plummer being 29th in rating this year? Well...if his recievers were more consistant it would be better. Look at all those QB's with higher ratings with lower winning percentages. He is doing what he has to do to win. The SD game, the D blew it.

    In the Indy game Plummer went shot for shot with Manning and the D couldn't stop Indy. Remember the Rams game? He got very little protection, just like against SD.

    Looks like tonight against the Chiefs he was the only Denver offensive player who showed up. ITS NOT PLUMMER!! THIS WHOLE TEAM HAS LOST ITS GLUE!!
    Let me say first I have been a huge supporter of Jake Plummer since he got here.

    Plummer should not even be mentioned in the same sentence as Elway. The stats do not tell even a small part of the story.

    Elway is the winningest QB in NFL history. Elway took the entire team and carried them on his shoulders for over a decade. I wonder if any of those who post these ludicrous "Plummer vs. Elway" threads actually watched the games Elway played in!!

    I like Plummer, and am sad that his season has gone so poorly. I really would have liked to see him have the success he is capable of. But, he hasn't. It's time to look towards the future, not the past.

    Leave a comment:


  • cabellero25
    replied
    Originally posted by vandyman53
    Phil Simms, a Super Bowl winner, played for Morehead State and never won more than 2 games each of the 4 years he played. Your basis of comparing Cutler's won-lost record at Vanderbilt is totally ridiculous. Elway at his prime would have trouble winning at Vandy.
    I'm gonna ring in on this once then i'm done, I went to the Vandy home games when Cutler was there and he is definetly the future of this team! But Vandy didnt have a good record because of the talent that surrounded him. I think if other areas of the Broncos does not pick up (D line, O Line, Running, Wide Receivers.) Than we will be in for some ruff games ahead. I feel Plummer gives us the best chance of winning just in his experience and his heart.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncophan
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncos4tw
    You want to know why John Elway was 100 times the QB Jake is? Lemme break it down for you.

    When the chips were down, and the team needed a miracle in the biggest way, you would not hope that John Elway would take the team on his shoulders and lead us to a win, you'd EXPECT IT. He not only was a leader, he led by example. He by his very presence made the entire team around him greater. One player can have that effect on a team. Sort of like how Jake can make the whole team around him WORSE by virtue of him being on the field.

    When the chips were down the last couple of weeks, what did Jake do? Well last week, on a crucial 3rd down, he fumbles a ball snapped right into his hands. This week he tosses a pick, under no pressure whatsoever.

    Did Elway make mistakes? Sure. But I can remember him time and time again making amazing plays to pull a win out. He would carry the team soley on his own shoulders.

    I've NEVER seen Jake do this, not once. The best I've seen him do is manage a good drive at the end of the game (or overtime) to win, after HE put us in a hole to begin with, with his lousy play.

    If you REALLY watched Elway his entire career (I saw every snap he took in his career in Denver), and Jake (same, I never miss a game), the difference is blaringly clear. John could make amazing plays, scramble, had super vision, perfect passes to receivers 50 yards down the field running in stride, and his picks were a result of him trying to make the impossible happen most times. Jake? He under no pressure, throwing to a receiver wide open, throws picks. It's embarassing.

    Please stop with the ludicrous comparisons. Jake is barely fit to tie Elway's shoes. Play like him? haha... not even close. Jake will NEVER lead this team to a SB win.
    In the broncos history....there has never been a qb as successful as Elway was.

    In the broncos future....there will never be a qb as successful as Elway was.

    Too many people around here expect too much from the broncos qb......what a shame.

    Cutler.....you better duck......you are next..... sadly....get ready to take the abuse

    Leave a comment:


  • vandyman53
    replied
    Originally posted by Grunge_Bassist
    I have been a die hard Denver fan since I was 8..that was 1989.

    Oh...so I am not with the masses. I got and wear my Elway jersey thank you very much. I also have a bunch of Elway Cards. Elway spent his whole career there. So what if he won more AFC playoff games, he is second for most Super Bowl losses, and first with getting his hinges blown off in a Super Bowl. 55-10 ring a bell!?! In fact that was the first time I pulled for Denver was that Super Bowl and stuck with them ever since.

    Cutler hasn't ever played against a first string NFL D that means buisness...pre-season doesn't mean crap.

    Yes, I saw him play at Vanderbilt against scrub college teams he was decent, yet against better ones besides that one Flordia game he wasn't. A 5-6 record?!?

    Didn't Plummer win a Bowl game? Go look at Plummer's High School stats better than Elways I will add.

    When Elway played through most of the 90's him Jim Kelly, and Marino were about the only QB's who deserved a trip to the Pro Bowl from the AFC, except in the 80's and 90's you had Boomer in Cinny. Look at Marino and Mannings high numbers no ring on their finger, so numbers and ratings don't mean crap.

    I was using that just to show you Plummer can do what Elway did on the individual level.

    I am not saying Elway wasn't a good QB I am just saying that (yeah..I was sooo happy when he won two in a row), that his 98-99 teams were awesome compared to the o-line, defense, and special teams that Plummer has. Yet, he still helps us get to the playoffs, and has done more for this team than anybody since Elway left.
    Phil Simms, a Super Bowl winner, played for Morehead State and never won more than 2 games each of the 4 years he played. Your basis of comparing Cutler's won-lost record at Vanderbilt is totally ridiculous. Elway at his prime would have trouble winning at Vandy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Medford Bronco
    replied
    Originally posted by Broncos4tw
    You want to know why John Elway was 100 times the QB Jake is? Lemme break it down for you.

    When the chips were down, and the team needed a miracle in the biggest way, you would not hope that John Elway would take the team on his shoulders and lead us to a win, you'd EXPECT IT. He not only was a leader, he led by example. He by his very presence made the entire team around him greater. One player can have that effect on a team. Sort of like how Jake can make the whole team around him WORSE by virtue of him being on the field.

    When the chips were down the last couple of weeks, what did Jake do? Well last week, on a crucial 3rd down, he fumbles a ball snapped right into his hands. This week he tosses a pick, under no pressure whatsoever.

    Did Elway make mistakes? Sure. But I can remember him time and time again making amazing plays to pull a win out. He would carry the team soley on his own shoulders.

    I've NEVER seen Jake do this, not once. The best I've seen him do is manage a good drive at the end of the game (or overtime) to win, after HE put us in a hole to begin with, with his lousy play.

    If you REALLY watched Elway his entire career (I saw every snap he took in his career in Denver), and Jake (same, I never miss a game), the difference is blaringly clear. John could make amazing plays, scramble, had super vision, perfect passes to receivers 50 yards down the field running in stride, and his picks were a result of him trying to make the impossible happen most times. Jake? He under no pressure, throwing to a receiver wide open, throws picks. It's embarassing.

    Please stop with the ludicrous comparisons. Jake is barely fit to tie Elway's shoes. Play like him? haha... not even close. Jake will NEVER lead this team to a SB win.
    This is a great post. CP when they replenish.

    BTW stats lie as well. Brian Griese had a better QB rating that Elway, would you take him over Elway. Lets sum it up quickily .......No.

    Elway was one of the best clutch QBs of all time. Plummer is a mistake prone turonver machine, End of discussion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Broncos4tw
    replied
    You want to know why John Elway was 100 times the QB Jake is? Lemme break it down for you.

    When the chips were down, and the team needed a miracle in the biggest way, you would not hope that John Elway would take the team on his shoulders and lead us to a win, you'd EXPECT IT. He not only was a leader, he led by example. He by his very presence made the entire team around him greater. One player can have that effect on a team. Sort of like how Jake can make the whole team around him WORSE by virtue of him being on the field.

    When the chips were down the last couple of weeks, what did Jake do? Well last week, on a crucial 3rd down, he fumbles a ball snapped right into his hands. This week he tosses a pick, under no pressure whatsoever.

    Did Elway make mistakes? Sure. But I can remember him time and time again making amazing plays to pull a win out. He would carry the team soley on his own shoulders.

    I've NEVER seen Jake do this, not once. The best I've seen him do is manage a good drive at the end of the game (or overtime) to win, after HE put us in a hole to begin with, with his lousy play.

    If you REALLY watched Elway his entire career (I saw every snap he took in his career in Denver), and Jake (same, I never miss a game), the difference is blaringly clear. John could make amazing plays, scramble, had super vision, perfect passes to receivers 50 yards down the field running in stride, and his picks were a result of him trying to make the impossible happen most times. Jake? He under no pressure, throwing to a receiver wide open, throws picks. It's embarassing.

    Please stop with the ludicrous comparisons. Jake is barely fit to tie Elway's shoes. Play like him? haha... not even close. Jake will NEVER lead this team to a SB win.

    Leave a comment:


  • crazycombo
    replied
    Originally posted by Grunge_Bassist
    http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.ph...&contentID=751

    7 ints in 456 attempts. I seriously don't see how Elway is better than Plummer?

    Elway blew 3 Super Bowls and one was 55-10!! Come on people if Plummer lost a Super Bowl I doubt it would be that bad. 55-10!!!

    How many times did Elway just get us to the divisionals, or barely to the wild card?

    Jake Plummer(Career 10yrs)
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | 1997 ari | 10 | 157 296 53.0 2203 7.4 15 15
    | 1998 ari | 16 | 324 547 59.2 3737 6.8 17 20
    | 1999 ari | 12 | 201 381 52.8 2111 5.5 9 24
    | 2000 ari | 14 | 270 475 56.8 2946 6.2 13 21
    | 2001 ari | 16 | 304 525 57.9 3653 7.0 18 14
    | 2002 ari | 16 | 284 530 53.6 2972 5.6 18 20
    | 2003 den | 11 | 189 302 62.6 2182 7.2 15 7
    | 2004 den | 16 | 303 521 58.2 4089 7.8 27 20
    | 2005 den | 16 | 277 456 60.7 3366 7.4 18 7
    | 2006 den | 10 | 150 276 54.3 1778 6.4 10 11
    +-------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 137 | 2459 4309 57.1 29037 6.7 160 159 |
    +-------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    QB RATING = 74.7



    Jake Plummer(4yrs.w/Denver)
    +----------+-----+------------------------------------------------+
    | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT |
    +----------+-----+------------------------------------------------+
    | 2003 den | 11 | 189 302 62.6 2182 7.2 15 7
    | 2004 den | 16 | 303 521 58.2 4089 7.8 27 20
    | 2005 den | 16 | 277 456 60.7 3366 7.4 18 7
    | 2006 den | 10 | 150 276 54.3 1778 6.4 10 11
    +---------=-+-----+-----------------------------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 53 | 919 1555 58.9 11415 7.2 70 45 |
    +------------+-----+-----------------------------------------------+
    QB RATING = 84.8



    JOHN ELWAY (1st 10 Years)
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD - Y/A TD INT |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | 1983 den | 11 | 123 259 47.5 1663 6.4 7 14 |
    | 1984 den | 15 | 214 380 56.3 2598 6.8 18 15 |
    | 1985 den | 16 | 327 605 54.0 3891 6.4 22 23 |
    | 1986 den | 16 | 280 504 55.6 3485 6.9 19 13 |
    | 1987 den | 12 | 224 410 54.6 3198 7.8 19 12 |
    | 1988 den | 15 | 274 496 55.2 3309 6.7 17 19 |
    | 1989 den | 15 | 223 416 53.6 3051 7.3 18 18 |
    | 1990 den | 16 | 294 502 58.6 3526 7.0 15 14 |
    | 1991 den | 16 | 242 451 53.7 3253 7.2 13 12 |
    | 1992 den | 12 | 174 316 55.1 2242 7.1 10 17 |
    +------------+-----+-----------------------------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 144 | 2377 4339 54.4 30216 6.9 177 157 |
    +------------+-----+-----------------------------------------------+
    QB RATING = 75.2



    JOHN ELWAY (Last 4 Years)
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | 1995 den | 16 | 316 542 58.3 3970 7.3 26 14 |
    | 1996 den | 15 | 287 466 61.6 3328 7.1 26 14 |
    | 1997 den | 16 | 280 502 55.8 3635 7.2 27 11 |
    | 1998 den | 13 | 210 356 59.0 2806 7.9 22 10 |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    | TOTAL | 60 | 1093 1866 58.6 13739 7.3 101 49 |
    +------------+-----+----------------------------------------------+
    QB RATING = 88.6

    Looks like Jake isn't doing so bad even though he was in Arizona for half his career, he is having an off year. But..just like freaking Miami we hope the new guy is the next greatest pro bowler. They want another Marino, and we Denver fans want another Elway.

    Cutler is a pocket guy. With what little time our ageing OL gives Plummer, I doubt Cutler will do much better.

    The speacial teams coverage is horrible, the D is now coughing up points, the recievers are dropping passes. What makes you think they are gonna catch any better with Cutler throwing the ball.

    I know Elway like Marino is a legend. Yet, those great years like this rough year are not always the QB's doing. Thats why its called a team game. They Elway and Marino had great teams too. Just like Plummer had last year, and he will again.

    Oh...and Plummer being 29th in rating this year? Well...if his recievers were more consistant it would be better. Look at all those QB's with higher ratings with lower winning percentages. He is doing what he has to do to win. The SD game, the D blew it.

    In the Indy game Plummer went shot for shot with Manning and the D couldn't stop Indy. Remember the Rams game? He got very little protection, just like against SD.

    Looks like tonight against the Chiefs he was the only Denver offensive player who showed up. ITS NOT PLUMMER!! THIS WHOLE TEAM HAS LOST ITS GLUE!!
    You can't compare one with the other. However, I think that Elway and Plummer are a lot alike in some areas. they both got heart.

    But times have change.

    Back in the 80's there were only two real power houses in the afc, broncos and bills that was it. however they all lost in the sb against the NFC.

    Now is a bit difference, there is more parity, Defense is better now than back in the 80' and 90's QB are made by receivers now.

    Peyton is great, but take wayne and harrison out and he got nothing.

    that same happen to Tom Brady, givens and his mvp and now is is down again.

    Walker is good, but I think he takes plays off. Rod will be great always, but he is getting old.

    I think Marshall is a good answer, to have him play #2 or #3 receiver all game.

    have rod plays on 3rd downs to extend his career.

    O line struggles, bring foster back next game and see if he changes. sometimes a long extended time on the bench does wonders.

    I think that Plummer has a flaw, he tries too much. if cutler plays and don't
    fare any better, than it will expose all those flaws that rod is talking about, but you could also damage your qb that way.
    Last edited by crazycombo; 11-24-2006, 06:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncophan
    replied
    Not to add fuel to this fire........but check out career fumbles....I believe last I checked elway had 137 in his career......which I think is about the worse among any nfl player in the history of the nfl.That's alot of fumbles in what 15 or 16 years

    Also Superbowl interceptions.....Elway still has that record, for most Superbowl interceptions....I think it is 9..?......yea I know he played in 4

    Not bashing Elway at all......just stating the facts.....As a fan.....I appreciate everything Elway has done for the organization......we will never see another like him......

    Plummer doesn't stand a chance if he gets blown out as bad as Elway did in superbowls.....looks like we will never find out

    Leave a comment:


  • lancane
    replied
    Originally posted by Grunge_Bassist
    I have seen several passes where he has thrown over 40 -50 easy, and that one Javon Walker stopped on was only about 50 in the air in the Indy game.
    WARNING: Watching football on television shows passes longer then they appear!

    Plummer has only thrown 35+ yards, actual passes, not adding yardage via receiver a few times in his entire career. Ask him, please...I mean credit him for things he has done, but to not start saying Jake has an arm, anyone that knows Plummer will tell you that he has a descent but not great arm...

    Leave a comment:


  • lancane
    replied
    Originally posted by Grunge_Bassist
    I don't see how a preseason kid, is going to be an upgrade. The Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Eli Manning , examples could be easliy placed on Cutler.

    You hope wonder boy pulls a Brady or Romo...and I bet against starting D's he is about as good as Brister. I just really have that gut feeling, that he is another Brister.

    Good but...8-8 guy maybe a 9-7 in the end.
    I hope Cutler does well, but your boy is not! Do you really want to argue that Plummer is a great quarterback? His inability overall this year would sabotage any real defense on his behalf...you know that as well. Cutler could be a Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Aaron Rodgers...or maybe he is the next Manning, Roethlisberger, Brady, Carr or Smith! Only playing time will tell us if he can transcend into the NFL, or if he is but another bust, but his skills, ability, mechanics and athleticsm tells me that he will be very succesful, wether or not you want to believe it...that is your choice!

    Leave a comment:


  • Grunge_Bassist
    replied
    Originally posted by lancane
    Yeah Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch won Bowl Games as well, I guess they are better then Farve, Elway and many others too! Do you not realize that playing for big schools do not register into talent? That is a fact, they get more press cause of it, look at Aaron Rodgers! Eli Manning was overhyped cause his brother, there are keys into all of this, a big name school means very little and it has been proven time and time again.

    Plummer is better then Griese and the rest of the questionable quarterbacks we have started since Elway yes...that does not mean there is not someone better, that the position can not be upgraded by a more talented or sound athlete.

    Seems like you are a die hard fan, but if you are...then you want all areas of the team to improve and should realize that just cause you like an athlete, does not mean that it is better to start him over someone better, they play the game to compete, to do so you need to upgrade, that is always the key to getting better and winning long term.

    I don't see how a preseason kid, is going to be an upgrade. The Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Eli Manning , examples could be easliy placed on Cutler.

    You hope wonder boy pulls a Brady or Romo...and I bet against starting D's he is about as good as Brister. I just really have that gut feeling, that he is another Brister.

    Good but...8-8 guy maybe a 9-7 in the end.

    Leave a comment:


  • dogfish
    replied
    Originally posted by Javalon
    Oh boy. I'm just going to ask everyone to play nice even though it's going to tick off a lot of people.

    oh, what's the big deal? elway was only a sure-fire first ballot hall of famer. . . .


    so jav, did your user title come from the movie serenity?


    man, where's freakin' cinnamunmunmun when you need an inane thread hijacked??

    Leave a comment:


  • The Dyna$ty
    replied
    ^he was just being sarcastic I think

    Leave a comment:

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