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  • #46
    Here's a Question and answer it honestly.

    Originally posted by JRWIZ
    Most of the folks calling for cutler and think he will singlehandedly turn it around are either vandy fans, cutler fans or Jake haters.

    Mostly that have an agenda and hope and pray that they are right. Since the kid has yet to throw a pass against a real defense during a real game NO ONE KNOWS for sure what he is.

    With as bad as this team seems to be one man is not gonna make the difference and if we thought Jake was getting blitzed, wait till the up coming DC get done with creative packages for cutler. It should be a blood bath with this Oline.

    Why does a defense rush a Scrambling QB if thats the main thing they dont want to happen. Here's why, Majority of the times Jake Hurries the rush instead of taking the sac.

    Now answer this, When facing 8 guys in the box like most of the defense has done to us in the games were facing, shannahan is force to call a 3 and out play for plummer to throw, Can you Honestly Say Plummer can throw the long ball and hit his target?

    At times he's overthrown, underthown and had his passes bobbled like hot potatoes when HE DOES have time. So in all Respects. The Defense has him beat, Plummer is no longer a viable threat, if your not a threat your better off taking a seat and becomming a spectator. Plummer is a harsh competitor but he's a dull blade that can no longer cut, passion alone cant win games, If you can throw the ball where its needed how can you expect your recievers to catch it.

    All his ints and bad passes are in double coverage and when he's hurried.
    McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

    Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by JRWIZ
      Yet we still have only Walker that is preforming unless cutler is some how gonna magically help Rod get separation, allow the TE to get into patterns (bring held into block as we speak) and make the catches that they have been dropping so far.

      The running game is some how gonna magically become dominant again. Last but not least heal the oline, that outside of nalen is stinking up the place on run blocking and most importantly pass protection.

      Sorry charlie but one man can't do all of those things to make this offense run like it used to.

      In fact with a rook at QB the DC will merely add blitz packages to further confuse him. The season will be shorter than it has been the past 4 years cause unless s serious injuries happen to both KC and SAN this season will not include a post season.
      Since we are reading the future I tend to disagree.

      1. With the passing game the running game will improve and vice versa.

      2. Seattle gave up 270 yards in rushing last game. Run the rock and then pass the ball.

      3. We don't have to change the way we play. We can execute the same.
      You would be surprised at what a laser arm can do for you!

      4. Look at Dallas. Before Romo they were saying that the Dallas defense was shot. Now the same people are prasing the defense - why because football is a game of emotion. You play hard and your teamates will play hard!



      ----------------------------------------------
      I work at Vanderbilt University

      Where Jay Graduated!


      I tell you I love Elway! He was my hero growing up. I loved the way he threw the ball with velocity! I love that in a QB. This is why I am a Cutlerfan!!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by vandyman53
        Nope don't spend my time holding links for you JR. It's on the 'net if ya want to find it. I thought you were a "supposed" team man. Sounds like you wish one to fail as the "haters" have been accused of.
        No a hater never have been. But it is plain to most that don't love cutler that he is not gonna be the salvation of what is left of this offense.

        That is not even counting how bad the defense has become.

        Support your guy all you want but, till I hear it from Mikey's mouth and not what someone (with a vested interest) interpreted or surmised what was said I'll take it witha grain of salt. When I post a fact I post a link, unless it is posted and it's from Mikey's mouth it is merely conjecture.

        You cutler lovers are hearing what you wish to hear, not necessarily what is being said.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by BroncoKazuki
          For once pretend, that your the defensive coord for the other team going up agenst Plummer and his offense. Because when it all comes down to its Really Plummer's offense. He exciutes Shannahan's and the OC's plays but he's the one doing the work.

          Now that your the DC and your going up agenst a Shannahan offense and Plummer is your QB what are you going to do.... If you read the Scounting Reports you know Three things.

          1. Jake Plummer is a scrambler and to neutrize him is to cut off his roll outs and any pathways of him moving around. Containment in the Pocket is the Main action of the Defensive Line, As long as Plummer is in the pocket he cant really be a threat.

          2. Plummer has a weak arm and is very innacurate, Rush him to get a Int or to make him run and sac him for major lossses.

          3. Plummer has a nack to focus on one Wide reciever at a time, hurry the pass so it goes into double coverage.

          Now that being said, the rest of the offense is cake. only Worry would be Javon Walker so Put 2 man coverage on him and you neutrize him since he's the main threat and for the Majority Plummer will only aim for Javon.

          Next put 8 or 9 people into the box and take away the run. Since we dont have a strong RB and Tatum Bell cant seem to keep himself healthy the run suffers because we cant make the Defense play Hernist with the two RB were depolying we cant push through the 8 man rush defense.

          There you have it an 1.2.3 step to neutrize and minimize the Denver Offense.
          1. contain Plummer.
          2. Rush plummer into making mistakes
          3. Load the Box with 8-9 defenders and force Jake to beat you with the long ball.

          In doing this you can forcibly weaken the Denver Defense since you now control the aspects of the game. Clock, 3rd down conversions, score.

          So in all respects Most of our Woes are from Plummer. He is forced to beat the Defense with his arm witch he cannot do, witch works agenst us every time. As long as that keeps going were going to struggle each game we go into.

          Last year we had the luxury of having good talent on our offense that coverd up all of Plummer's shortcommings. Now that its gone everything rest on Plummer.
          yes there are 10 other Players but the key player will always be the QB. If the QB isnt feared then all the other pieces are therefore void of any real value.

          Stuff the run, force the long ball with plummer = containment of the offense of the Denver Broncos.

          Defensive coords already figured it out, wonder why so many people that think plummer is good havent yet. Gotta look from it, from a different point of view to understand the QB that were replacing.

          So I guess D. Huard scared teams into not loading the box for LJ to run all over the place. Or maybe when Drew Brees was stinking it up he made other teams backoff so that LT could have career days? What about Tiki Barber who had to shoulder the load for his team prior to Eli Manning? Willie Parker this year with an inept Ben? What about J. Jones prior to the benching of Bledsoe? Caddilac Williams anyone? The list can go on about teams that had next to nobody for QB with running games.
          sigpic
          PSN & XBL: Vicious2500
          You Shed Tears of Scarlet

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          • #50
            Originally posted by cutlerfan
            Vince got lucky yesterday
            Yes, he got lucky. However, Vince reminds me of Jay in rallying the troops.
            As the great divide in America continues we are causing harm to our future generations by avoiding what needs to be done.

            More people recognize Britney Spears than Dick Cheney.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by vandyman53
              Yes, he got lucky. However, Vince reminds me of Jay in rallying the troops.
              Yes - I agree but man Vince has no arm!



              ----------------------------------------------
              I work at Vanderbilt University

              Where Jay Graduated!


              I tell you I love Elway! He was my hero growing up. I loved the way he threw the ball with velocity! I love that in a QB. This is why I am a Cutlerfan!!

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by cutlerfan
                Since we are reading the future I tend to disagree.

                1. With the passing game the running game will improve and vice versa.

                2. Seattle gave up 270 yards in rushing last game. Run the rock and then pass the ball.

                3. We don't have to change the way we play. We can execute the same.
                You would be surprised at what a laser arm can do for you!

                4. Look at Dallas. Before Romo they were saying that the Dallas defense was shot. Now the same people are prasing the defense - why because football is a game of emotion. You play hard and your teamates will play hard!

                Everything is tied to the Oline and right now cutler is not gonna heal it. If anything maybe even make it worse, DC's drool at seeing rookie playing them.

                SEA will have alexander (last years League MVP), hasslebeck both pro bowlers and should both be back to speed this week with the rust knocked off. If anything them may indeed be getting the 270 yards on us, as DEN has shown absolutely no idea on how to stop a good RB.

                DAL nor does it have the coach that DAL has. NOR is cutler have the time in grade knowing the NFL that cutler hopes to have.

                Laser arm as much as you think will do, simply can not fix all the problems this team has.

                You can wish in one hand and crap in the other see what fills up first.

                DEN is not going anywhere without divine intervention, with Jake or cutler.

                Believe or hope for what you wish just do not be disappointed with the outcome.

                I for one hope I am wrong but I don't think so.

                BTWyour comment about playing hard I suspect that everyone on offense saw how hard Jake was playing so this may not be on the mark

                You need to look past the forest for the trees.
                Last edited by JRWIZ; 11-27-2006, 09:54 AM.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Its going to take time but its gonna help in the long run.

                  Originally posted by JRWIZ
                  Yet we still have only Walker that is preforming unless cutler is some how gonna magically help Rod get separation, allow the TE to get into patterns (bring held into block as we speak) and make the catches that they have been dropping so far.

                  The running game is some how gonna magically become dominant again. Last but not least heal the oline, that outside of nalen is stinking up the place on run blocking and most importantly pass protection.

                  Sorry charlie but one man can't do all of those things to make this offense run like it used to.

                  In fact with a rook at QB the DC will merely add blitz packages to further confuse him. The season will be shorter than it has been the past 4 years cause unless s serious injuries happen to both KC and SAN this season will not include a post season.

                  Plummer is a good guy but no threat. Im not a plummer hater, i just look at his 10 year career instead of beeing blinded by the best 3 years of his career. He's an Sout Compeitor, has passion and heart. Those only take you so far if you dont have the brains to think on your feet.

                  Of course theres Jake haters, Jake fans, Cutler haters and Cutler fans. Im just looking at this Objectivly.

                  Jake can beat the Defense with his arm. Since he's going to be gone upcomming game thats if Cutler gets the go ahead and that seems more dead on.

                  You still going to hate and brood over Cutler Replacing him? Are you gonna hate the team when Plummer is gone next year? Like how many people were calling for Plummer's head this year are you gonna be the one to lead the charge when Cutler had slight bumps down the road? It seems to me the way your agenst this that you act more like a Plummer fan then a Bronco Fan. Cheer for Whoever is behind the Center no matter what.

                  With only the tapes and scouting reports the defense of all our opponets will now have to worry about 3 things.

                  Cutler and Javon connection,

                  Our run game

                  Cutlers ablity to find an open man and actually hit his target.

                  I dont see Plummer making his throws dead on to the WR or looking for an open man, or taking the sac when he needs to instead of throwing it into double coverage.

                  Alexander shouldnt be saying anything either because he cant seem to actually do his job as well.

                  Our O-line suffers because of the 8 in the box witch makes blitzing more of a threat and actualy is effective with Plummer.

                  Time will tell what Cutler can do. Honestly the way Plummer has been playing this year how can he not do better. Still i see a sliver of caution in your words, but still most of it looks like. Pro jake anti jay setiment.

                  McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

                  Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Another thing we need to be worrying about is our special teams play. If we're constantly starting drives from the goalline to our 20 how do we reasonably expect to score points consistently? Something needs to be done with our special teams its frustrating to see our offense start at the 10 yard line nearly every drive because our special teams shows no discipline. Or the fact that our defnese plays a bend but don't break philosophy and opposing teams punters just nail the ball into their 10 yard line or the returner doesn't field the punt and it bounces to the 3 yard line.
                    sigpic
                    PSN & XBL: Vicious2500
                    You Shed Tears of Scarlet

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by JRWIZ
                      Everything is tied to the Oline and right now cutler is not gonna heal it. If anything maybe even make it worse, DC's drool at seeing rookie playing them.

                      SEA will have alexander (last years League MVP), hasslebeck both pro bowlers and should both be back to speed this week with the rust knocked off. If anything them may indeed be getting the 270 yards on us, as DEN has shown absolutely no idea on how to stop a good RB.

                      DAL nor does it have the coach that DAL has. NOR is cutler have the time in grade knowing the NFL that cutler hopes to have.

                      Laser arm as much as you think will do, simply can not fix all the problems this team has.

                      You can wish in one hand and crap in the other see what fills up first.

                      DEN is not going anywhere without divine intervention, with Jake or cutler.

                      Believe or hope for what you wish just do not be disappointed with the outcome.

                      I for one hope I am wrong but I don't think so.

                      JR

                      Lets do this. Lets promise to talk about this after this weeks game.

                      You have your opinion and I have mine. You think I am wrong and I think you are wrong. That is ok. That is what a debate is all about.

                      Fair enough?



                      ----------------------------------------------
                      I work at Vanderbilt University

                      Where Jay Graduated!


                      I tell you I love Elway! He was my hero growing up. I loved the way he threw the ball with velocity! I love that in a QB. This is why I am a Cutlerfan!!

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by JRWIZ
                        Everything is tied to the Oline and right now cutler is not gonna heal it. If anything maybe even make it worse, DC's drool at seeing rookie playing them.

                        SEA will have alexander (last years League MVP), hasslebeck both pro bowlers and should both be back to speed this week with the rust knocked off. If anything them may indeed be getting the 270 yards on us, as DEN has shown absolutely no idea on how to stop a good RB.

                        DAL nor does it have the coach that DAL has. NOR is cutler have the time in grade knowing the NFL that cutler hopes to have.

                        Laser arm as much as you think will do, simply can not fix all the problems this team has.

                        You can wish in one hand and crap in the other see what fills up first.

                        DEN is not going anywhere without divine intervention, with Jake or cutler.

                        Believe or hope for what you wish just do not be disappointed with the outcome.

                        I for one hope I am wrong but I don't think so.

                        BTWyour comment about playing hard I suspect that everyone on offense saw how hard Jake was playing so this may not be on the mark

                        You need to look past the forest for the trees.
                        This where you are wrong. It is a two way street! The O plays good then the D should play good.

                        How many games were won this year by the defense!

                        But if you are playing bad and the defense has to carry you - it gets old. They may be like - lets bail Jake out again.



                        ----------------------------------------------
                        I work at Vanderbilt University

                        Where Jay Graduated!


                        I tell you I love Elway! He was my hero growing up. I loved the way he threw the ball with velocity! I love that in a QB. This is why I am a Cutlerfan!!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          DO we actually have someone that strong to do that.

                          Originally posted by vicious2500
                          So I guess D. Huard scared teams into not loading the box for LJ to run all over the place. Or maybe when Drew Brees was stinking it up he made other teams backoff so that LT could have career days? What about Tiki Barber who had to shoulder the load for his team prior to Eli Manning? Willie Parker this year with an inept Ben? What about J. Jones prior to the benching of Bledsoe? Caddilac Williams anyone? The list can go on about teams that had next to nobody for QB with running games.

                          Honestly we dont we definately dont have a strong RB like all the ones you mentioned to beat an 8 man rush defense. Tatum is injured and cant keep himself healthy. THis puts us at a serious disadvantage. We arent other teams Were the Denver Broncos.

                          If Tatum could stay healthy we would be somewhat ok but he's not and we have at best decent RB's in Mike and Nash. So that puts more of a strain on Plummer and forces him to throw because we dont have RB's that can plow though the 8 man line.

                          So in trying to debunk my annalysis of the situation i'll give you this.

                          Without Tatum can we actually beat the 8 in the box with the runningbacks we have as well with the QB we have?

                          Honestly No, we'll struggle because we cant throw the ball, and we lack any reall muscle power to push our way through the line. If Tatum were still Heathy we would be fine.

                          So shannahan has to make Plummer throw with the 3 and outs because with Nash and Mike we cant seem break out with the run like we could with Tatum.

                          McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

                          Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by BroncoKazuki
                            Plummer is a good guy but no threat. Im not a plummer hater, i just look at his 10 year career instead of beeing blinded by the best 3 years of his career. He's an Sout Compeitor, has passion and heart. Those only take you so far if you dont have the brains to think on your feet.

                            Of course theres Jake haters, Jake fans, Cutler haters and Cutler fans. Im just looking at this Objectivly.

                            Jake can beat the Defense with his arm. Since he's going to be gone upcomming game thats if Cutler gets the go ahead and that seems more dead on.

                            You still going to hate and brood over Cutler Replacing him? Are you gonna hate the team when Plummer is gone next year? Like how many people were calling for Plummer's head this year are you gonna be the one to lead the charge when Cutler had slight bumps down the road? It seems to me the way your agenst this that you act more like a Plummer fan then a Bronco Fan. Cheer for Whoever is behind the Center no matter what.
                            You obviously don't know me but for my defense of Jake from the Jake haters been a fan of DEN's since day one was at every game from 1960 through 1979 when I moved out of state permanently (except for my years in the navy)
                            With only the tapes and scouting reports the defense of all our opponents will now have to worry about 3 things.

                            Cutler and Javon connection,

                            Our run game

                            Cutlers ablity to find an open man and actually hit his target.

                            I dont see Plummer making his throws dead on to the WR or looking for an open man, or taking the sac when he needs to instead of throwing it into double coverage.

                            Alexander shouldnt be saying anything either because he cant seem to actually do his job as well.

                            Our O-line suffers because of the 8 in the box witch makes blitzing more of a threat and actualy is effective with Plummer.

                            Time will tell what Cutler can do. Honestly the way Plummer has been playing this year how can he not do better. Still i see a sliver of caution in your words, but still most of it looks like. Pro jake anti jay setiment.


                            I wanted a real draft choice last year on the DL where our real problem is.

                            cutler may be the greatest thing since sliced bread but he can not single handedly fix our problems.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by BroncoKazuki
                              Honestly we dont we definately dont have a strong RB like all the ones you mentioned to beat an 8 man rush defense. Tatum is injured and cant keep himself healthy. THis puts us at a serious disadvantage. We arent other teams Were the Denver Broncos.

                              If Tatum could stay healthy we would be somewhat ok but he's not and we have at best decent RB's in Mike and Nash. So that puts more of a strain on Plummer and forces him to throw because we dont have RB's that can plow though the 8 man line.

                              So in trying to debunk my annalysis of the situation i'll give you this.

                              Without Tatum can we actually beat the 8 in the box with the runningbacks we have as well with the QB we have?

                              Honestly No, we'll struggle because we cant throw the ball, and we lack any reall muscle power to push our way through the line. If Tatum were still Heathy we would be fine.

                              So shannahan has to make Plummer throw with the 3 and outs because with Nash and Mike we cant seem break out with the run like we could with Tatum.

                              We the Denver Broncos haven't had a dominating running presence since the likes of Portis, but I'll gladly take Bailey over Ports. As big of a Portis fan as I was our corners weren't 1/12th of what Champ is. Yes O'Neal got picks, but for every pick he got he was burned 10 times. At the list and I'm still very bitter about him sitting there and watching Deion Branch reel in that game winning pass a few years back.

                              Tatum's a bigger piece to the offense than some want to acknowledge. Our offense is seeminly hurting without him, but the disappearance of the recieving TE hurts us just as much as as Tatum not being in there or even more. When they showed Cutler's preaseason highlights during the Chiefs game there was 2 things I noticed. He checked down to the TE often and he threw to Kircus often.

                              Now here's the problem I seen with these two things.

                              1) Scheffler has been deactivated the last 2/3 games. I don't know what it is with him. If its his inability to run block or him being able to grasp the game mentally, but he hasn't been on the field

                              2) Kircus has been non-extistent since his booming preaseaon.

                              Now either Cutler made these two palyers better than they actually are or they aren't as good as they were advertised in the preseason.
                              sigpic
                              PSN & XBL: Vicious2500
                              You Shed Tears of Scarlet

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                              • #60
                                I'm happy that Cutler is starting. Its actually exciting. Its giving us a new chance to be as good as I thought we could be. I don't even care if it screws up our chances this season. The way we've been playing, there is no way we could go deep in the playoffs with Plummer. I'm just glad that either way Cutler will get some good nfl experience so that next year we can go on a Superbowl run. I hope we still make the playoffs, so that Cutler can get some playoff experience as well. That could really help him going into next year. We need to see what happens when hes faced with a tough situation and how he reacts when he has a bad game.

                                Having said all that, I don't hate Plummer. I appreciate his heart and all the effort he put in to trying and make this team the best it could be. I respect him as a player, but he doesn't have what the Broncos need to win, so we have to move on. I hope he has success where ever he ends up.
                                2 of the top 3 NFL QBs of all time have been Broncos

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