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  • #61
    Originally posted by BroncsSB#3
    I'm happy that Cutler is starting. Its actually exciting. Its giving us a new chance to be as good as I thought we could be. I don't even care if it screws up our chances this season. The way we've been playing, there is no way we could go deep in the playoffs with Plummer. I'm just glad that either way Cutler will get some good nfl experience so that next year we can go on a Superbowl run. I hope we still make the playoffs, so that Cutler can get some playoff experience as well. That could really help him going into next year. We need to see what happens when hes faced with a tough situation and how he reacts when he has a bad game.

    Having said all that, I don't hate Plummer. I appreciate his heart and all the effort he put in to trying and make this team the best it could be. I respect him as a player, but he doesn't have what the Broncos need to win, so we have to move on. I hope he has success where ever he ends up.
    excellent post, I agree I am really looking forward to Cutler starting on Sunday night. and I do not hate Plummer either, I just feel that he had run his course here.
    NHL Blog at:NHL Blog by Medford Bronco!

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by BroncoKazuki
      Why does a defense rush a Scrambling QB if thats the main thing they dont want to happen. Here's why, Majority of the times Jake Hurries the rush instead of taking the sac.

      Now answer this, When facing 8 guys in the box like most of the defense has done to us in the games were facing, shannahan is force to call a 3 and out play for plummer to throw, Can you Honestly Say Plummer can throw the long ball and hit his target?

      At times he's overthrown, underthown and had his passes bobbled like hot potatoes when HE DOES have time. So in all Respects. The Defense has him beat, Plummer is no longer a viable threat, if your not a threat your better off taking a seat and becomming a spectator. Plummer is a harsh competitor but he's a dull blade that can no longer cut, passion alone cant win games, If you can throw the ball where its needed how can you expect your recievers to catch it.

      All his ints and bad passes are in double coverage and when he's hurried.

      And your point is?

      Other than some differences in accuracy maybe. It is not just Jake it is the supporting cast can you not see it? The Oline cannot sustain a block long enough to get passes off for short one let alone a longer pass how does putting cutler in fix that?

      Throwing the long ball due to the circumstance is not an option for either, not time for it to develop. So having some one with a cannon for an arm is a total waste of talent. for one thing only Walker is a true threat as we speak. Frankly he is needed short and medium routes just to keep the defense honest. What good is it to run a long route if your QB is on his back or in a meat grinder?

      You don't think that the DC's are not gonna hurry cutler? If not, I think your in fantasy land.

      The game revolves around the trenches and we have been getting killed there this year against good teams and frankly that is all that is left on the schedule this year.

      What has happened this year with/to Jake is a by product of many things beyond his control, oline, porus defense especially against the run, total lack of production from the TE area, only having one good WR and the running game that is off and on like stop light and last but not least play calling. It almost seems that Mikey has set him up to fail by keeping him in the pocket so much.

      You will never convince me that cutler can singlehandedly fix this offense. So if you don't understand what I have been saying we will have to agree to disagree.

      Comment


      • #63
        We can keep going back and fourth all day.

        Originally posted by JRWIZ
        I wanted a real draft choice last year on the DL where our real problem is.

        cutler may be the greatest thing since sliced bread but he can not single handedly fix our problems.

        So did you look at his 6 years in arizona before he came over here?

        Honestly Im not anti-jake. IM pro win for the Broncos.

        Shannahan must have thought about Plummer's longjevity thats why he got Cutler. Sooner or later Plummer would faulter and it just happen sooner. Im just looking at his 6 years in Arizona and the 3 years in Denver that he had high ranking he was actually good for a change. I saw most of the AZ games he was in a train wreck. If he was any good how come he's over here and not over there? THey didnt want him no more because he wasnt good. We got Cutler to be our offensive future. Plummer is too old 10 years already and he's still doing the same mistakes as if he was a rookie. Thats not good.

        When looking at someone's record and how he plays its best to take all 10 years into account instead of the 4 years he's been in denver. Makes better sense.

        I do have to say because of the talent we had in those 4 years only 3 were his better years in his career.

        Well lets just wait til this sunday. If Jay does well he does well and that will probably solidify everyones conviction about Jake. If he does about the same as Jake it will only cause more Divison within the fanbase.

        You could have fooled me as being a Bronco fan. You sound more like a Jake fan over being a Bronco Fan. I prolly sound like a Jay fan to you because the way im attacking jake. Im not attacking Jake the person, im attacking his ablity to play well in clutch situations.

        Jay is by far not a quick fix. There are alot of holes but Jay is the right step in the right direction.

        When all the dust settles, we are all Bronco fans.

        Until then JR lets have a standstill on this debate until Cutler plays.
        McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

        Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

        Comment


        • #64
          I know they are but time will tell if Jay has the stuff.

          Originally posted by JRWIZ
          And your point is?

          Other than some differences in accuracy maybe. It is not just Jake it is the supporting cast can you not see it? The Oline cannot sustain a block long enough to get passes off for short one let alone a longer pass how does putting cutler in fix that?

          Throwing the long ball due to the circumstance is not an option for either, not time for it to develop. So having some one with a cannon for an arm is a total waste of talent. for one thing only Walker is a true threat as we speak. Frankly he is needed short and medium routes just to keep the defense honest. What good is it to run a long route if your QB is on his back or in a meat grinder?

          You don't think that the DC's are not gonna hurry cutler? If not, I think your in fantasy land.

          The game revolves around the trenches and we have been getting killed there this year against good teams and frankly that is all that is left on the schedule this year.

          What has happened this year with/to Jake is a by product of many things beyond his control, oline, porus defense especially against the run, total lack of production from the TE area, only having one good WR and the running game that is off and on like stop light and last but not least play calling. It almost seems that Mikey has set him up to fail by keeping him in the pocket so much.

          You will never convince me that cutler can singlehandedly fix this offense. So if you don't understand what I have been saying we will have to agree to disagree.

          Im not diluting myself, IM gonna take a wait and see approach on Jay see what he's got. I already seen what Plummer has and its left a bitter taste in my mouth. Honestly I dont hate Plummer i just think he's used up as a starter. Its time to see what we have on the Bench. We should all be rooting for Cutlers sucess. Am i right? We all want whats best for the Broncos and thats a win right? so until then lets wait it out and see what this kid has Ok? I think thats fair enough.
          McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

          Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by BroncoKazuki
            So did you look at his 6 years in arizona before he came over here?

            Honestly Im not anti-jake. IM pro win for the Broncos.

            Shannahan must have thought about Plummer's longjevity thats why he got Cutler. Sooner or later Plummer would faulter and it just happen sooner. Im just looking at his 6 years in Arizona and the 3 years in Denver that he had high ranking he was actually good for a change. I saw most of the AZ games he was in a train wreck. If he was any good how come he's over here and not over there? THey didnt want him no more because he wasnt good. We got Cutler to be our offensive future. Plummer is too old 10 years already and he's still doing the same mistakes as if he was a rookie. Thats not good.

            When looking at someone's record and how he plays its best to take all 10 years into account instead of the 4 years he's been in denver. Makes better sense.

            I do have to say because of the talent we had in those 4 years only 3 were his better years in his career.

            Well lets just wait til this sunday. If Jay does well he does well and that will probably solidify everyones conviction about Jake. If he does about the same as Jake it will only cause more Divison within the fanbase.

            You could have fooled me as being a Bronco fan. You sound more like a Jake fan over being a Bronco Fan. I prolly sound like a Jay fan to you because the way im attacking jake. Im not attacking Jake the person, im attacking his ablity to play well in clutch situations.

            Jay is by far not a quick fix. There are alot of holes but Jay is the right step in the right direction.

            When all the dust settles, we are all Bronco fans.

            Until then JR lets have a standstill on this debate until Cutler plays.
            While I did not watch all of Jake games I saw alot of them as here in ELP we got a steady diet of NFC E games with DAL WAS NYG AND PHL playing them.

            An exciting player that played better than most of his teammates considering he had one of the three lousiest owners during the era. CIN and STL ranked up there and until they got vermiel in there they really sucked.

            As I have been saying since he was drafted he has not played one down against a real defense during the real season. I'd wait to pass judgement on how great or bad he is.

            Never have I to my knowledge said he was not the real deal. I have defended Jake from the haters lies and misquotes. Only because he deserves better. I have never said he was John Elway merely that he has many of his records and is comparable in many ways to him. Would have loved to see Jake on those last two Superbowl teams with the talent that John had around him not sure how he would have done but suspect he would have done as well as John did. Perhaps not as dynamic but there would have been alot of exciting plays with his scrambling ability as Most of Johns was over by then.

            Is he John of course not but I did not expect him to be like some are expecting cutler to be.

            I truly think that cutler will rue the day he was dafted here. With all the pressure he is about to be under.

            Time will only tell if he is John, Tim or ryan. Or of course someone in between.

            Comment


            • #66
              Sometimes I am embarrassed to be a Bronco fan. Now is one of those times.

              You all are so quick to blame Plummer for everybody else's faults and not being able to cover for them.

              "Tatum can't run the ball because there are 8 men in the box. This is Jakes fault because he doesn't make good throws WHEN THERE ARE 8 MEN IN THE BOX DECIMATING AN O-LINE THAT CAN'T STOP A 4 MAN RUSH CONSISTENTLY."

              No, Jake hasn't been the savior, he hasn't been able to carry this offense on his back like Brady has carried his offense. Us Plummer supporters have never said he was Brady. Cutler supporters HAVE surmised that he can carry our offense like Brady, and that he is the magic medicine to cure the ailing offense.

              Everybody jumps at the opportunity to cut Jake's head off when everybody else on the offense is just as responsible for the Bronco failures.

              The offensive line can't stop a thing, on passing or rushing plays.

              Our running backs aren't short yardage backs who can pound out the rock on short downs.

              Our receivers haven't been able to get open against single coverage defenses.

              Our defense disappeared at the Colts game and hasn't returned since.

              Our special teams has made terrible decisions and plays.

              Our front office let Mike Anderson and Trevor Pryce go for nothing. (Pryce is also and example of how easy Broncos fans are willing to turn on a past contributer and star of the team)

              Our losses have been team efforts, and you guys as semi(I am just hoping on this one) mature fans should notice this and not blame one person.

              Our offensive line lost us the Rams game, our defense lost us the Colts game, and Jake lost us the Chargers game. Doesn't seem to me like this season's "woes" (if you can refer to a so far 7-4 season as particularly woeful) are all Jakes fault.

              I am not embarrassed because people want to see Cutler start. I am embarrassed because people want to see Jakes head. It doesn't seem to me to be about football anymore to some people, just about revenging against Jake. It shouldn't be about getting rid of Jake, it should be about giving our team the best chance to win week in and week out.

              I as much as any Bronco fan want to see Cutler turn into what Shannahan and draft "experts" think he might be. But I also don't want to see him go out there and get punished because his team isn't capable of helping him out once in a while.


              As of right now I am done with this board, it is too damn depressing and angering reading it sometimes. So I clonclude my short and very unnoticed (one cp in 60 posts? Come on I am cooler than that! ) tenure here with this:

              Go Broncos!!!

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by JRWIZ
                And your point is?

                Other than some differences in accuracy maybe. It is not just Jake it is the supporting cast can you not see it? The Oline cannot sustain a block long enough to get passes off for short one let alone a longer pass how does putting cutler in fix that?

                Throwing the long ball due to the circumstance is not an option for either, not time for it to develop. So having some one with a cannon for an arm is a total waste of talent. for one thing only Walker is a true threat as we speak. Frankly he is needed short and medium routes just to keep the defense honest. What good is it to run a long route if your QB is on his back or in a meat grinder?

                You don't think that the DC's are not gonna hurry cutler? If not, I think your in fantasy land.

                The game revolves around the trenches and we have been getting killed there this year against good teams and frankly that is all that is left on the schedule this year.

                What has happened this year with/to Jake is a by product of many things beyond his control, oline, porus defense especially against the run, total lack of production from the TE area, only having one good WR and the running game that is off and on like stop light and last but not least play calling. It almost seems that Mikey has set him up to fail by keeping him in the pocket so much.

                You will never convince me that cutler can singlehandedly fix this offense. So if you don't understand what I have been saying we will have to agree to disagree.

                There are different ways to look at the pass protection. You look at it as the oline collapsing and I will agree that the OT's have not been playing stellar since Lepsis has left... but they could be better if the QB play was better. I look at the limitations of the QB.

                First... Jake is not allowed to audible, because quite frankly he can't muster up enough brain activity to figure out a defense to adjust the play. The play goes in and that's it. Defenses know that and Denver's offense doesn't audible to adjust to the defense.

                Second... it doesn't take much pass protection to throw quick slants and outs. Plummer is so shaky you can just see he doesn't know where to throw. The guy is a 10 year vet and looks like a red shirt freshman in college. He hesitates and delays and then the pressure hits him. When he does throw the ball it is rarely in stride with the receiver. Behind them, ahead of them, high, low...nobody knows where the ball is going to be. Then people blame the receivers for "not getting open or dropping passes" but when you don't when and where the ball is going to be and a 250 pound LB ready to hit you, it is hard to catch. Rhythm and timing is not there.

                Third...they know Plummer isn't effective deep, so they can bring the safety up which takes away the middle and the running game. It also allows LB's to rush the outside at Plummers only strength.

                You look at the pressure from the QB from poor Oline play, but teams are exposing weakness' and everybody blames the Oline. A couple of deep throws changes everything, it forces the safety back and Lb's cover the middle and less pressure on the QB.

                A QB that can hit a slant over the middle, opens up the deep ball and you can still avoid pressure.

                When the safety is back the running game is more effective and opens up play action, which can hold off pass rushers and avoid pressure.

                Poor QB play is a vicious circle and goes round and round.


                A bad QB has a ripple effect and ruins everything. :brick:
                The three Keys to football
                1. Turnovers
                2. Field Position
                3. Red Zone Play

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by ignitionnight
                  Sometimes I am embarrassed to be a Bronco fan. Now is one of those times.

                  You all are so quick to blame Plummer for everybody else's faults and not being able to cover for them.

                  "Tatum can't run the ball because there are 8 men in the box. This is Jakes fault because he doesn't make good throws WHEN THERE ARE 8 MEN IN THE BOX DECIMATING AN O-LINE THAT CAN'T STOP A 4 MAN RUSH CONSISTENTLY."

                  No, Jake hasn't been the savior, he hasn't been able to carry this offense on his back like Brady has carried his offense. Us Plummer supporters have never said he was Brady. Cutler supporters HAVE surmised that he can carry our offense like Brady, and that he is the magic medicine to cure the ailing offense.

                  Everybody jumps at the opportunity to cut Jake's head off when everybody else on the offense is just as responsible for the Bronco failures.

                  The offensive line can't stop a thing, on passing or rushing plays.

                  Our running backs aren't short yardage backs who can pound out the rock on short downs.

                  Our receivers haven't been able to get open against single coverage defenses.

                  Our defense disappeared at the Colts game and hasn't returned since.

                  Our special teams has made terrible decisions and plays.

                  Our front office let Mike Anderson and Trevor Pryce go for nothing. (Pryce is also and example of how easy Broncos fans are willing to turn on a past contributer and star of the team)

                  Our losses have been team efforts, and you guys as semi(I am just hoping on this one) mature fans should notice this and not blame one person.

                  Our offensive line lost us the Rams game, our defense lost us the Colts game, and Jake lost us the Chargers game. Doesn't seem to me like this season's "woes" (if you can refer to a so far 7-4 season as particularly woeful) are all Jakes fault.

                  I am not embarrassed because people want to see Cutler start. I am embarrassed because people want to see Jakes head. It doesn't seem to me to be about football anymore to some people, just about revenging against Jake. It shouldn't be about getting rid of Jake, it should be about giving our team the best chance to win week in and week out.

                  I as much as any Bronco fan want to see Cutler turn into what Shannahan and draft "experts" think he might be. But I also don't want to see him go out there and get punished because his team isn't capable of helping him out once in a while.


                  As of right now I am done with this board, it is too damn depressing and angering reading it sometimes. So I clonclude my short and very unnoticed (one cp in 60 posts? Come on I am cooler than that! ) tenure here with this:

                  Go Broncos!!!
                  With the exception of Jake being the scapegoat in the SAN loss your post is on the mark. There was plenty of blame to spread around. CPoint to you.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    I'm saddened by todays news as I'm a Jake supporter and still feel he had a lot to offer - theres no going back now. If Cutler stinks the place out (which I sincerely do not want before anyone suggests otherwise) then seasons over, and it becomes a bedding period for him.

                    Rivers is a stud this year - he spent his first 2 seasons learning the ropes as an understudy
                    Romo ditto, except he spent 3.

                    Leinart and Young have been patchy at best.

                    Alex Smith, Eli Manning both rotten in their first year. Dont really see why we should expect Cutler now to lead this team to the playoffs and the SB but I hope I'm severely off with that judgement.

                    Good luck Jake - I've no doubt that you'll find another team during the offseason. I'll miss ye mate, and you're indefatiabilty (if thats how you spell it). Everyone can talk about your INTS, but they cant argue with your winning record.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by JRWIZ
                      And your point is?

                      Other than some differences in accuracy maybe. It is not just Jake it is the supporting cast can you not see it? The Oline cannot sustain a block long enough to get passes off for short one let alone a longer pass how does putting cutler in fix that?

                      Throwing the long ball due to the circumstance is not an option for either, not time for it to develop. So having some one with a cannon for an arm is a total waste of talent. for one thing only Walker is a true threat as we speak. Frankly he is needed short and medium routes just to keep the defense honest. What good is it to run a long route if your QB is on his back or in a meat grinder?

                      You don't think that the DC's are not gonna hurry cutler? If not, I think your in fantasy land.

                      The game revolves around the trenches and we have been getting killed there this year against good teams and frankly that is all that is left on the schedule this year.

                      What has happened this year with/to Jake is a by product of many things beyond his control, oline, porus defense especially against the run, total lack of production from the TE area, only having one good WR and the running game that is off and on like stop light and last but not least play calling. It almost seems that Mikey has set him up to fail by keeping him in the pocket so much.

                      You will never convince me that cutler can singlehandedly fix this offense. So if you don't understand what I have been saying we will have to agree to disagree.
                      And what he said - CP to you, agree completely!!

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by BroncoRT
                        There are different ways to look at the pass protection. You look at it as the oline collapsing and I will agree that the OT's have not been playing stellar since Lepsis has left... but they could be better if the QB play was better. I look at the limitations of the QB
                        .

                        I think give the circumstance they haven't played as badly as say the Cowboys offensive line has.

                        Originally posted by BroncoRT
                        First... Jake is not allowed to audible, because quite frankly he can't muster up enough brain activity to figure out a defense to adjust the play. The play goes in and that's it. Defenses know that and Denver's offense doesn't audible to adjust to the defense.
                        Well wouldn't say that Jake isn't smart enough to audible but I'm sure Shanahan has his reasons for Jake not being allowed to audible. I think its more that our opponents know what Jake does well and they have been successful at keeping him from getting outside the pocket. Also a criticism that I have heard several times is that one of the reasons Jake in not a very pocket passer is because he has difficulty reading the entire field. If he gets outside the pocket then he has few reads to make. This in turn takes away part of the playbook.

                        Originally posted by BroncoRT
                        Second... it doesn't take much pass protection to throw quick slants and outs. Plummer is so shaky you can just see he doesn't know where to throw. The guy is a 10 year vet and looks like a red shirt freshman in college. He hesitates and delays and then the pressure hits him. When he does throw the ball it is rarely in stride with the receiver. Behind them, ahead of them, high, low...nobody knows where the ball is going to be. Then people blame the receivers for "not getting open or dropping passes" but when you don't when and where the ball is going to be and a 250 pound LB ready to hit you, it is hard to catch. Rhythm and timing is not there.
                        The other big weakness that Jake has imo is that he's not a very accurate passer.

                        Originally posted by =BroncoRT
                        Third...they know Plummer isn't effective deep, so they can bring the safety up which takes away the middle and the running game. It also allows LB's to rush the outside at Plummers only strength.

                        You look at the pressure from the QB from poor Oline play, but teams are exposing weakness' and everybody blames the Oline. A couple of deep throws changes everything, it forces the safety back and Lb's cover the middle and less pressure on the QB.
                        This just goes hand in hand with what I said earlier.

                        Originally posted by BroncoRT
                        A QB that can hit a slant over the middle, opens up the deep ball and you can still avoid pressure.

                        When the safety is back the running game is more effective and opens up play action, which can hold off pass rushers and avoid pressure.

                        Poor QB play is a vicious circle and goes round and round.


                        A bad QB has a ripple effect and ruins everything. :brick:
                        I sure don't think anyone can legitimately throw everyone else under the bus when it obvious that the quarterback is struggling mightily.
                        John 11: 25-27

                        My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                        Thanks Snk16

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Let's just support our starting QB, Jay.
                          By saying that I am trying to stop the madness that has possesed our board for so long. I'm still a Jake fan and always will be, but what's done is done. Jay is our starting QB and as a Broncos fan, I will support him(with my Plummer Jersey on)!
                          Last edited by ThunderGirl; 11-27-2006, 01:48 PM.


                          Comment


                          • #73
                            I don't want to hate Cutler, but wow, is ignorance bliss..

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              I'm not pro-Jake or anti-Jake.

                              All I want if for the Broncos to win games.

                              Right now, I think Jay Cutler gives them the best chance to do that. This may be a Romo/Roethlisberger type thing. A change inspires the whole team.
                              - [B]BroncoFanCanada

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by BroncoFanCanada
                                I'm not pro-Jake or anti-Jake.

                                All I want if for the Broncos to win games.

                                Right now, I think Jay Cutler gives them the best chance to do that. This may be a Romo/Roethlisberger type thing. A change inspires the whole team.
                                Tony Romo is not a rookie.

                                Comment

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