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  • #91
    I just feel Jake has shortchanged the organization. What he was SUPPOSED to do after Shanahan went and got a QB with his first pick was pull a Drew Brees, build on the year he had in '05 and get traded for 2 first and 2 seconds, leaving us with Cutler to win the Superbowl. Plummer choked on the pressure all this season just like he did against Pittsburgh in the AFC championship. The only real question left now is: will he still hold for extra points?

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by lancane
      Wow... that is logical, the only real experience is game experience, any Pro or College level athlete would tell you that, what your saying is the complete opposite, that sitting is better! Funny thing those stats, because it is bull****, maybe you like to waste talent, being that your two favorite teams hardly produce back to back solid years I could see why! But the facts are far from supportive, 86% of the most productive and successful quarterabacks in League history, started in their first seasons or with maybe sitting one season...including Plummer, and that list is deep with HOF players with many awards, Super Bowls, accolades and more. that leaves 14%, not an average I find in favor of many quarterbacks, yes some are busts, more then not they will succeed...given the right placement. A few have been successful, and the odds are not good, but even next year he would be raw, and no matter what they need to play to improve and to succeed.
      Game Experience, Yada Yada Yada, Preseason games provide support for Backup QB's and such, and with him, he had more playing time than Jay, preseason, but games nonetheless, and against a Defense nonetheless, 1st Round QB's..Doesn't mean anything since Tommy Maddox, And why did you respond to the statement? To only create more controversy? To end something, you must leave it alone, I would not give a response if there wasn't so much ignorance, don't you want this conflict to end? Then just leave it alone, come Sunday, it will resolve itself.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by BroncoKazuki
        For once pretend, that your the defensive coord for the other team going up agenst Plummer and his offense. Because when it all comes down to its Really Plummer's offense. He exciutes Shannahan's and the OC's plays but he's the one doing the work.

        Now that your the DC and your going up agenst a Shannahan offense and Plummer is your QB what are you going to do.... If you read the Scounting Reports you know Three things.

        1. Jake Plummer is a scrambler and to neutrize him is to cut off his roll outs and any pathways of him moving around. Containment in the Pocket is the Main action of the Defensive Line, As long as Plummer is in the pocket he cant really be a threat.

        2. Plummer has a weak arm and is very innacurate, Rush him to get a Int or to make him run and sac him for major lossses.

        3. Plummer has a nack to focus on one Wide reciever at a time, hurry the pass so it goes into double coverage.

        Now that being said, the rest of the offense is cake. only Worry would be Javon Walker so Put 2 man coverage on him and you neutrize him since he's the main threat and for the Majority Plummer will only aim for Javon.

        Next put 8 or 9 people into the box and take away the run. Since we dont have a strong RB and Tatum Bell cant seem to keep himself healthy the run suffers because we cant make the Defense play Hernist with the two RB were depolying we cant push through the 8 man rush defense.

        There you have it an 1.2.3 step to neutrize and minimize the Denver Offense.
        1. contain Plummer.
        2. Rush plummer into making mistakes
        3. Load the Box with 8-9 defenders and force Jake to beat you with the long ball.

        In doing this you can forcibly weaken the Denver Defense since you now control the aspects of the game. Clock, 3rd down conversions, score.

        So in all respects Most of our Woes are from Plummer. He is forced to beat the Defense with his arm witch he cannot do, witch works agenst us every time. As long as that keeps going were going to struggle each game we go into.

        Last year we had the luxury of having good talent on our offense that coverd up all of Plummer's shortcommings. Now that its gone everything rest on Plummer.
        yes there are 10 other Players but the key player will always be the QB. If the QB isnt feared then all the other pieces are therefore void of any real value.

        Stuff the run, force the long ball with plummer = containment of the offense of the Denver Broncos.

        Defensive coords already figured it out, wonder why so many people that think plummer is good havent yet. Gotta look from it, from a different point of view to understand the QB that were replacing.

        The problem with your theory is that if every team knows this:

        THEN WHY HAS HE WON OVER 70% OF HIS GAMES?

        He must then be overcoming these tactics right????
        Just admit your wrong

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by BroncoKazuki
          So did you look at his 6 years in arizona before he came over here?

          Honestly Im not anti-jake. IM pro win for the Broncos.

          Shannahan must have thought about Plummer's longjevity thats why he got Cutler. Sooner or later Plummer would faulter and it just happen sooner. Im just looking at his 6 years in Arizona and the 3 years in Denver that he had high ranking he was actually good for a change. I saw most of the AZ games he was in a train wreck. If he was any good how come he's over here and not over there? THey didnt want him no more because he wasnt good. We got Cutler to be our offensive future. Plummer is too old 10 years already and he's still doing the same mistakes as if he was a rookie. Thats not good.

          When looking at someone's record and how he plays its best to take all 10 years into account instead of the 4 years he's been in denver. Makes better sense.

          I do have to say because of the talent we had in those 4 years only 3 were his better years in his career.

          Well lets just wait til this sunday. If Jay does well he does well and that will probably solidify everyones conviction about Jake. If he does about the same as Jake it will only cause more Divison within the fanbase.

          You could have fooled me as being a Bronco fan. You sound more like a Jake fan over being a Bronco Fan. I prolly sound like a Jay fan to you because the way im attacking jake. Im not attacking Jake the person, im attacking his ablity to play well in clutch situations.

          Jay is by far not a quick fix. There are alot of holes but Jay is the right step in the right direction.

          When all the dust settles, we are all Bronco fans.

          Until then JR lets have a standstill on this debate until Cutler plays.
          Not Good?

          Guess how many times the Cards went to the Playoffs before and after Plummer was there since the 80's?

          He gave that franchise hope then the Bidwells let his 1,000 yard rusher go, Lomas Brown go, the best OLB on the team went to Cleavland.

          Follow that up with a broken finger (Throwing hand) the 2nd to last game of the preseason following his playoff year and you have a receipe for disaster.

          You dont know what your talking about.
          Just admit your wrong

          Comment


          • #95
            Originally posted by lonedv
            The problem with your theory is that if every team knows this:

            THEN WHY HAS HE WON OVER 70% OF HIS GAMES?

            He must then be overcoming these tactics right????

            I must correct you..Denver has won 70% of Plummers games in spite of his play, not because of it.

            Great running game, good defense, great Oline play and great coaching. That is what won 70% of Plummer's games.
            The three Keys to football
            1. Turnovers
            2. Field Position
            3. Red Zone Play

            Comment


            • #96
              Originally posted by target.practice
              As a Charger fan, I really question this move.

              To be honest, your OL needs to be vastly upgraded, otherwise it doesn't matter at all for Cutler because he will be running for his life. Your OL is the weak link right now, which will not bode well for Cutler.

              Plummer has his ups and downs, but he wins. Isn't he like 39 and 17 since being with Denver?

              From what I can recall, Cutlers stock really shot up during Senior Bowl 'practices' and didn't really impress in the Senior Bowl. Yes, he had a good pre-season, but, it is pre-season.

              I just think that with the AFC West being a close race and if Denver wanted to stay in the hunt, why would you make a change now? I almost take this has throwing in the towel...

              Just my 2 cents.

              Do Denver fans really think that Cutler is going to come in and lead you to the Super Bowl this year?
              Maybe, maybe not...

              But Plummer wasn't going to do it.

              In the words of Mike Shanahan, "Jay gives us the best chance to win NOW."

              sigpic

              Comment


              • #97
                Originally posted by broncos_mtnman
                Maybe, maybe not...

                But Plummer wasn't going to do it.

                In the words of Mike Shanahan, "Jay gives us the best chance to win NOW."

                Plain and simply put. Cp's to you!!!!!
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #98
                  Originally posted by BANJOPICKER1
                  So, tight end Stephen Alexander wonders about the wisdom of switching quarterbacks now, suggesting Cutler certainly is no quick fix.

                  "I've said all along that it's not all about Jake," Alexander said. "You guys want to make a big deal out of Jake Plummer and what he's not doing, but this is not a one-man team. There are a lot of guys that need to go out and play better. Whether that's protection issues up front, whether that's guys running routes and getting the proper depth, dropped balls, there are a whole slew of things."

                  http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6...T=HCP&GT1=8807
                  I think its important to bring the feelings of team mates once again so you can all get a grip of some kind!!
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by BANJOPICKER1
                    I think its important to bring the feelings of team mates once again so you can all get a grip of some kind!!
                    We all need to remember where the Broncos with jake under center have been the last few years while we get our excitement up about Cuttler.I have never been more ready for a change but with respect to where we have been,its not out of the question !!!
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • Hm...

                      Originally posted by lonedv
                      Not Good?

                      Guess how many times the Cards went to the Playoffs before and after Plummer was there since the 80's?

                      He gave that franchise hope then the Bidwells let his 1,000 yard rusher go, Lomas Brown go, the best OLB on the team went to Cleavland.

                      Follow that up with a broken finger (Throwing hand) the 2nd to last game of the preseason following his playoff year and you have a receipe for disaster.

                      You dont know what your talking about.
                      If plummer was their shining star how come he's still not with them.

                      also i got this off their website in franchise history.

                      The 1998 Arizona squad, one of the NFL's youngest teams, ended the franchise's 15-year playoff drought and notched the Cardinals' first postseason victory since 1947.
                      But after that they werent able to get back into the playoffs and when they did it was an early exit. I saw the Dallas game and that game was the only win for them during their post season trip.
                      So my arguement still stands firm. Also plummer getting over the defense its been a hard struggle and 70% of the time the team has compensated for his strugges agenst the opposing defense.

                      It was the talent around Plummer that made plummer look good. Take away all the all key players from his time in Arizona and the loss of alot of key players last year and what your left with is an Average QB. So i did do some reaserch when i made my thoughts i just didnt blindly post them.

                      Im just saying Plummer served his purpose he held us in contention for 3 1/2 years but he was just an average QB. When Cutler was picked up in the Draft he already knew his days were numberd it was just a matter of when he would sit on the bench then if he would sit.
                      Its going to happen so we should just live what with Shannahan is doing and not question his logic, because all Shannahan is doing is giving us the best chance of winning. So enjoy the bronco games and root for the Kid and the team and by some chance you dont like cutler just root for the team when they are on Defense only

                      Last edited by BroncoKazuki; 11-27-2006, 05:41 PM.
                      McDaniles Career as a failure of a Head Coach is being fulfilled. Termination of McFailure has happen.

                      Rejoice Bronco Fans we have taken our team back, but at a heavy cost.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by AlWilsonizKING
                        THANK YOU JRWIZ and vicious2500....nice to see you all can see what the others can't....CP's for you both.


                        PEACE!!!

                        you all can keep what ever it is you see

                        i guess the rest of us see what one of the best coaches in the game see

                        a vetern qb who cannot make plays...a vetern who every one said give another year , he''ll be good...a wait till next year philosophy...a qb who not only never got better , but got worse

                        and finaly
                        a better qb in jay
                        sigpic
                        when do native Americans become human and not mascots

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by lonedv
                          The problem with your theory is that if every team knows this:

                          THEN WHY HAS HE WON OVER 70% OF HIS GAMES?

                          He must then be overcoming these tactics right????
                          The majority of that winning percentage was accumulated over the past three years. Teams are now defending us differently and forcing Jake to stay in the pocket which is one his weaknesses.
                          John 11: 25-27

                          My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                          Thanks Snk16

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MileHighInNY
                            I felt the same way for most of the season, but then my opinion changed. Bronco fans aren't any less reasonable than the fans of other teams. The fact that most of us see a problem with the offense and think a QB change is in order, despite the record, shows that something really is wrong. I really couldn't believe it when I finally started to want Cutler behind center--I kept telling myself "But we're 7-4! Jake is a winning quarterback!". But I think the fact that, despite the record, we still want change means that the team is not winning because of Jake. Also, the only real contender we've beaten this year is New England, and that's just because Shanny always outcoaches them.
                            We beat Ravens? They are 8-2 and they have just a good of a record as patriots. Also, Jake isn't a winning quarterback, Broncos are a winning team and Jake happens to be our quarterback. How can you say he is a winning quarterback when he has falls apart in playoff game?

                            Also, My say on all of this is, I think Cutler gives us the best shot, not necesarily this game, but in the playoffs and in games next week and the weeks after that. You can not blame our issues on Jake! We had like 35 rush yards or something like that last week! Jake has had many problems, but you can't say we are losing because of them.

                            Comment


                            • I'm baffled by all this Jake vs Jay crap on here. Aren't we all BRONCO fans on here ?

                              I read some of the posts from Jake supporters, and it get the impression that you all WANT Cutler to fail. What the hell kind of Bronco fan wants their QB to fail?

                              I for one am a Jake Plummer fan. I WANTED him succeed. Im sorry it just hasn't worked out for him this season. I respect Shanny's move. I have no problem with it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by seanlust
                                I'm baffled by all this Jake vs Jay crap on here. Aren't we all BRONCO fans on here ?

                                I read some of the posts from Jake supporters, and it get the impression that you all WANT Cutler to fail. What the hell kind of Bronco fan wants their QB to fail?

                                I for one am a Jake Plummer fan. I WANTED him succeed. Im sorry it just hasn't worked out for him this season. I respect Shanny's move. I have no problem with it.
                                Don't worry about it 'seanlust' you'll find that on these boards the term "true fan" takes on many definitions that mainly support the posters subjective opinions and have little if anything to do with loyalty, encouragement or camaraderie.

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